Proposal to eliminate "downvoting" of posts

[SDColorado]

Name one election, poll, or contest - anywhere - that utilizes the concept of down voting.

I have certainly seen polls that use the Agree/Disagree or Approve/Disapprove format. Such as "Do you Approve or Disapprove of the job the President is doing." Those types of polls are not at all uncommon. Selecting Disagree or Disapprove seems to me to be akin to down voting. I don't know how useful that type of poll would be, if the only option you had was Approve or Agree.

Also, there are those opinion polls where you can select from 1-10 wether you agree or disagree. Selecting 1 would also seem akin to a down vote.

I am not sure why people get so worked up about the votes. It isn't as though it affects your forum membership where you get a prize if you get the most up votes or kicked off the forum for accumulating a number of down votes.

One of the local newspapers here uses a Thumbs Up / Thumbs Down vote system on replies to articles, with a couple of differences that might be nice to see implemented. First, they tally and show both the up votes and the down votes. So instead of seeing a post that has -8, you would instead maybe see a post that has +6 / -8. I think maybe that is more accurate than simply the +/- number alone. Also when you look at someones profile, it tells you how many thumbs up and thumbs down votes you have received and how many of each you have given.

But again, what difference does it really make. It is all academic and provided for little else than interest and a little amusement.

 

[b24pgg]

I have certainly seen polls that use the Agree/Disagree or Approve/Disapprove format.

Yeah I had asked that question in relation to political elections/contests, since someone started comparing the voting system here to the US political voting system. But you're right, opinion polls definitely do use the approve/disapprove model.

 

[nouveau]

SMGD1, you're a minority, there's always one or two people who don't like the downvoting.

When that's the case, please refer to hiding it or ignoring it, not that hard, life goes on

 

[b24pgg]

SMGD1, you're a minority, there's always one or two people who don't like the downvoting.

When that's the case, please refer to hiding it or ignoring it, not that hard, life goes on

Sorry but you're wrong. The poll results from this thread indicate that more people want to remove the downvote button or voting altogether, than those who want to keep it.

Plus as mentioned above, MacRumors is not a democracy. Majority/minority opinion is moot.

 

[srf4real]

Sorry but you're wrong. The poll results from this thread indicate that more people want to remove the downvote button or voting altogether, than those who want to keep it.

Plus as mentioned above, MacRumors is not a democracy. Majority/minority opinion is moot.

Sorry but you're wrong. I downvoted your post too. I always downvote people that give an arrogant response or "speak" to others demeaningly or argue a point to death when they're obviously wrong. Check the poll again..

Currently tied.

 

[al256]

SMGD1, you're a minority, there's always one or two people who don't like the downvoting.

When that's the case, please refer to hiding it or ignoring it, not that hard, life goes on

Three days on this site (maybe four based on your residence) seems like such a short time to form an informed opinion on this subject, single out a user and assess that only "one or two people" don't like downvoting.

Maybe I'm wrong for thinking this way... Less than 100 hours of being a member seems too premature to really discuss this site topic. Feel free to downvote me BTW and welcome to the site.


Just to throw in my own two cents:

The ability to downvote other users' posts is helpful if this site expands in the direction of SpyMac after their multimedia upgrade. It helps to sort out information from a large amount of ever increasing users.

On the other hand, MacRumors has had a recognizable community that keeps growing. But I don't believe the downvoting of others' posts has done much to foster a community attitude.

I'm just waiting to see what happens to this site in the next few years. I hope it will still be recognizable and worth visiting.

 

[s15119]

I posted two examples, just two posts below his. See post #14 and pay better attention next time.

i read that post. you failed to show the downvoting was done inappropriately. Just cause it got your panties in a bunch, doesn't mean it was inappropriate.

 

[b24pgg]

i read that post. you failed to show the downvoting was done inappropriately.

The post is a tutorial on how to unlock a Verizon iPhone 4S. It has 8 downvotes. Perhaps you can explain how that is appropriate, because any reasonable individual would conclude that 8 downvotes on that post makes no sense.

 

[416049]

Downvoting doesn't degrade anyboys post nor opinion, unlike the youtube spam marking where the opinion gets hidden.So I think it would be useless to get rid of downvoting just don't take it personal and you will be fine.

 

[srf4real]

Everything was fine until the iPhone babies came along. They are a whiny, lazy bunch. Many of whom have never bothered to do a search on their own in their entire lives, but would rather clutter a useful forum with the same lame question over, and over, and over... or better yet they'd rather argue rudely and offensively that their mis-info is correct when it has already been proven otherwise.

Some kids just need a little smacking around ya know! @downvote.com

 

[kalsta]

Based on my observations, people primarily do not downvote based on the quality of a post; they downvote based on whether they personally agree or disagree with the post content. I've seen well reasoned, thoughtful posts be downvoted into oblivion just because they expressed negative opinions …

I'm somewhat undecided on the whole issue, but your post was most certainly well reasoned and thoughtful. And it seems the voters are out to prove you right. Oh the irony huh!

 

[vrDrew]

I'd have to second (third, fourth, two hundredth..) the idea of canning the up/down voting system. It seems to provide very little value to anyone, and simply encourages bad behavior.

Apart from providing a way of ordering posts on the front page, there really seems to be no upside to it. And a lot of downsides. These have probably been listed before (bad me, not reading every post in this thread..) but here goes:

1) There seems to be very little relationship between the quality of most posts and its up/down vote score. I've seen well thought out, well-written, factual and informative posts get zero - or worse negative votes.

2) People seem perfectly happy down-voting purely factual posts. The Site Administrators simply put up a news story about something happening in the Apple world - and it gets a slew of down votes. That ought to be a warning that something is wrong.

3) Its use seems to vary tremendously by user. Most sensible people wouldn't waste their time "voting" up or down somebody else's opinion. But get into one of the iOS vs Android threads, and fanatics on either side of the aisle seem to go to town. Conversely, I've seen excellent posts, how-to's, discussions , etc. in the more technical area of the site languish, unloved (or un-hated, if thats possible) with little, if any, feedback.

4) It seems to frankly discourage honest and forthright discussion. I've seen plenty of respectful, reasoned posts down-voted by very heavy margins, without any of the down voters bothering to have the courtesy to address the issues raised.

5) It encourages a "mob mentality." Ultimately, the real value of any forum is about discussing unusual, novel ideas. Apple Computer itself was founded on the idea that individuals could own and operate a computer. At the time this was a radical idea. And I'm quite sure that a forum of 1970s-era computer professionals would have (if anyone bothered to ask them) would have scoffed at the very idea.

6) It frankly discourages good posts, while doing little to weed out junk. If someone spends ten or twenty minutes putting together a cogently-argued, well-researched, well-cited post - and receives in response a torrent of down-voted from people disagreeing with the premise - its quite frankly infuriating. It makes anyone with the slightest degree of writing or thinking ability seriously question whether contributing to this forum is worth their time.

Conversely, if someone posts a piece of pandering - but ultimately meaningless blather, on the lines of "knowledge is good" - it can garner any amount of up voting.


I've been reading this forum for a couple of years. And from my, albeit limited, perspective - the up/down voting system has contributed to a dreadful lowering of the standard of debate.

Please consider scrapping it.

 

[b24pgg]

^^^ excellent post - agree 100%

 

[srf4real]

I'd have to second (third, fourth, two hundredth..) the idea of canning the up/down voting system. It seems to provide very little value to anyone, and simply encourages bad behavior.

Apart from providing a way of ordering posts on the front page, there really seems to be no upside to it. And a lot of downsides. These have probably been listed before (bad me, not reading every post in this thread..) but here goes:

1) There seems to be very little relationship between the quality of most posts and its up/down vote score. I've seen well thought out, well-written, factual and informative posts get zero - or worse negative votes.

2) People seem perfectly happy down-voting purely factual posts. The Site Administrators simply put up a news story about something happening in the Apple world - and it gets a slew of down votes. That ought to be a warning that something is wrong.

3) Its use seems to vary tremendously by user. Most sensible people wouldn't waste their time "voting" up or down somebody else's opinion. But get into one of the iOS vs Android threads, and fanatics on either side of the aisle seem to go to town. Conversely, I've seen excellent posts, how-to's, discussions , etc. in the more technical area of the site languish, unloved (or un-hated, if thats possible) with little, if any, feedback.

4) It seems to frankly discourage honest and forthright discussion. I've seen plenty of respectful, reasoned posts down-voted by very heavy margins, without any of the down voters bothering to have the courtesy to address the issues raised.

5) It encourages a "mob mentality." Ultimately, the real value of any forum is about discussing unusual, novel ideas. Apple Computer itself was founded on the idea that individuals could own and operate a computer. At the time this was a radical idea. And I'm quite sure that a forum of 1970s-era computer professionals would have (if anyone bothered to ask them) would have scoffed at the very idea.

6) It frankly discourages good posts, while doing little to weed out junk. If someone spends ten or twenty minutes putting together a cogently-argued, well-researched, well-cited post - and receives in response a torrent of down-voted from people disagreeing with the premise - its quite frankly infuriating. It makes anyone with the slightest degree of writing or thinking ability seriously question whether contributing to this forum is worth their time.

Conversely, if someone posts a piece of pandering - but ultimately meaningless blather, on the lines of "knowledge is good" - it can garner any amount of up voting.


I've been reading this forum for a couple of years. And from my, albeit limited, perspective - the up/down voting system has contributed to a dreadful lowering of the standard of debate.

Please consider scrapping it.

I'd be willing to give it up just to keep thoughtful folks like you around.

I never sat here and said "gee, wish I had a vote button to use as I skim this thread.." before the implementation. But I have found it useful for my own evil purposes.

 

[kalsta]

6) It frankly discourages good posts, while doing little to weed out junk. If someone spends ten or twenty minutes putting together a cogently-argued, well-researched, well-cited post - and receives in response a torrent of down-voted from people disagreeing with the premise - its quite frankly infuriating. It makes anyone with the slightest degree of writing or thinking ability seriously question whether contributing to this forum is worth their time.

Conversely, if someone posts a piece of pandering - but ultimately meaningless blather, on the lines of "knowledge is good" - it can garner any amount of up voting.

Perhaps voting was introduced to reduce the proliferation of comments like 'This ^^', etc. (I don't mean your comment srf4real, I mean comments which literally just say 'This ^^'. Although sometimes you really want to let someone know who is agreeing with them, right SGMD1! ) Given that it's human nature for people to want to express an opinion (be it well-informed or otherwise) voting, at very least, allows people to scratch that itch. Perhaps it makes it too easy to scratch the itch? Perhaps it encourages people to scratch at MR until the scab comes off and… Okay, better not take the analogy too far.

They could allow people to only vote positive, as SGMD1 suggests, which allows everyone to scratch in a more polite manner. But would it be any less infuriating to see your well-reasoned comment stay on zero votes, while the guy who writes 'And so it begins', or 'You're holding it wrong' lands a dozen or so positive votes? Maybe?

 

[b24pgg]

THANK YOU arn for getting rid of the downvoting!

 

[unlinked]

Yeah I had asked that question in relation to political elections/contests, since someone started comparing the voting system here to the US political voting system. But you're right, opinion polls definitely do use the approve/disapprove model.

I have seen it used in polls where only one person is running for the position.

----------

THANK YOU arn for getting rid of the downvoting!

Did you just upvote your own post? Seems improper to me. Ban upvoting!!!!!!!!

 

[maflynn]

[MOD NOTE]

arn has made it clear that he's still experimenting, and since pretty much all viewpoints that can be expressed, have been expressed between this thread and the other downvoting thread.