iPhone 15 Pro Max ProRAW 48 is broken on iPhone 15 Pro Max

[juanmaasecas]

Looks like less aggressive sharpening in the 15 model and maybe copy variation in the lens. Maybe Apple lowered the quality control to improve yield and lower price?
Resolving that many details in such a tiny sensor is very complex and small imperfections in the lens leads to blurrier areas…

 

[Lex404]

I haven't seen any app that can do regular RAW in 48MP. Please let me know which one that does it. Thanks

Just tried. Firstlight by filmic seems to do that. But its revenue model is weekly & yearly, and not very cheap..

Edit. Still not sure if it’s real raw or pro raw. Will try tomorrow again

 

[HarryMudd]

I have a new iPhone 15 Pro Max would like to test it to see if I have the same problem. Can you recommend a protocol?

 

[jajo.j]

Just tried. Firstlight by filmic seems to do that. But its revenue model is weekly & yearly, and not very cheap..

Edit. Still not sure if it’s real raw or pro raw. Will try tomorrow again

Just tried it and it looks a lot better than ProRAW 48 from the stock camera app. Thanks for this tip!


Filmic Firstlight (Stock camera, 1x, 24mm, f/1.7, ISO 64, 48.77MP)

I have a new iPhone 15 Pro Max would like to test it to see if I have the same problem. Can you recommend a protocol?

Take a photo in daylight, preferably of a landscape with lots of detail and focus on something far away like a line of trees. Use ProRAW 48 format. Check out the detail level of the ProRAW .DNG-file in actual size.

 

[HarryMudd]

Just tried it and it looks a lot better than ProRAW 48 from the stock camera app. Thanks for this tip!


Filmic Firstlight (Stock camera, 1x, 24mm, f/1.7, ISO 64, 48.77MP)




Take a photo in daylight, preferably of a landscape with lots of detail and focus on something far away like a line of trees. Use ProRAW 48 format. Check out the detail level of the ProRAW .DNG-file in actual size.

I’ll give that a try, thank you. I hope you resolve your issue.

And to be clear, this is with the main camera/lens? Not the wide or tele lens?

 

[jajo.j]

I’ll give that a try, thank you. I hope you resolve your issue.

And to be clear, this is with the main camera/lens? Not the wide or tele lens?

Correct, it is only an issue on the main lens (also the only lens that can do ProRAW 48).

 

[JimmyG]

Hi jajo.j, and welcome to the MacRumors forums!

Regarding your tests, the images you've shared seem to all be shot in low ambient lighting conditions and my first suspicion would be Apple's application of NR (noise reduction) may be different between the two different phone cameras. Checking one's EXIF data for the exposure parameters between the two may reveal some important information in those regards (i.e. is NR being applied at different ISO's? etc.).

Sharing that EXIF information here on the forums would be helpful for those reading along to help understand and diagnose what differences might be occurring. Shooting identical images at the same time (not different days or even seconds later) will provide a more even comparison. Using a 3rd-party app for full manual control might also be needed to ensure that both cameras are providing identical exposure settings (i.e. relying on each camera's auto-exposure capabilities may well prompt each camera to expose differently). Apples-to-apples, er, so to speak! LOL

Best of luck and keep us posted!
Jimmy G

P.S. kindly consider a more accurate title for your posts, you've attained zero conclusiveness that "ProRAW 48 is broken" on these new iPhones.

 

[ant the ninja]

I only have a pro and not pro max but I immediately noticed the difference between my 14 pro and 15 pro in lowlight shots. They are DEFINITELY blurrier and much harder to get a clean shot. I have to assume this has to do with apples post processing being lessened on the newer software compared to previously. I have also noticed that the outer edges of my pictures tend to have slightly more blur than before too.

 

[Grobaouche]

Just to understand your use case :
- Are you only using in low light conditions (according to the image you showed) ?
- Are you zooming in or just on 1x lens condition ?

 

[anwaltzzz]

Hi to all I already return my first 15 Pro Max because of that and today receive replacement device. And guess what — issue still there and moreover in my case my replacement device contains noticeable scratch on display (on a brand new phone!) What a frustrating experience

I didn't trying to switch between HEIFMax and RAWMax on the first unit but with replacement device difference is huge (see the attachments). I don't really understand — seems like it's software bug but I also update device to 17.1 beta 3 and still get blurry photos on RAWMax.

 

[Tsepz]

Hello all,

My first post on this forum. Unfortunately not a happy one.

I am a photographer and recently upgraded from iPhone 14 Pro Max to the brand new 15 Pro Max. Very excited about this camera. At last we get a good tele zoom that doesn't have the periscope artifacts that most Android alternatives have (lens flare in low light).

But... I always shoot in ProRAW 48 from the main lens to have the best possible quality and flexibility in editing afterwards. I immediately noticed that daylight shots taken with 15 Pro Max in ProRAW 48 are very blurry. Texture is almost non-existent and when inspecting the files at actual size they almost look painted.

Comparing to my ProRAW files from 14 Pro Max, the difference is really huge.

I actually find the HEIC 24MP mode to be much more detailed and has better texture (although with Apple's not so great processing).

Here is a comparison between 14 Pro Max (left) and 15 Pro Max (right), both ProRAW 48.

View attachment 2293120

Did anyone else notice this?

I have reported this as a bug to Apple and also contacted the support that asked me to reset the device to factory defaults and then set it up without restoring iCloud backup. Had no effect at all. I am on iOS 17.0.3.

I guess next step is to replace it, but if this is a software bug that can be solved I really don't want to go through that process.

Right now my plan is to wait a couple of updates and see if it is solved. If not, I will take the device to Genius Bar.

Curious to hear your experiences. Thanks!

/ Jacob

I was taking a lot of photos today as I was managing a professional video shoot (I was simply taking my own shots as the professional crew were busy doing the video with their rigs) that we are doing for a new business in the company I work for and I noticed some of this as well, I cannot share the images here as they have logos etc… under embargo, but I can definitely see the “painting” effect on some images, while other images look incredibly sharp, it is a mixed bag for me.

 

[tom2517]

Hello all,

My first post on this forum. Unfortunately not a happy one.

I am a photographer and recently upgraded from iPhone 14 Pro Max to the brand new 15 Pro Max. Very excited about this camera. At last we get a good tele zoom that doesn't have the periscope artifacts that most Android alternatives have (lens flare in low light).

But... I always shoot in ProRAW 48 from the main lens to have the best possible quality and flexibility in editing afterwards. I immediately noticed that daylight shots taken with 15 Pro Max in ProRAW 48 are very blurry. Texture is almost non-existent and when inspecting the files at actual size they almost look painted.

Comparing to my ProRAW files from 14 Pro Max, the difference is really huge.

I actually find the HEIC 24MP mode to be much more detailed and has better texture (although with Apple's not so great processing).

Here is a comparison between 14 Pro Max (left) and 15 Pro Max (right), both ProRAW 48.

View attachment 2293120

Did anyone else notice this?

I have reported this as a bug to Apple and also contacted the support that asked me to reset the device to factory defaults and then set it up without restoring iCloud backup. Had no effect at all. I am on iOS 17.0.3.

I guess next step is to replace it, but if this is a software bug that can be solved I really don't want to go through that process.

Right now my plan is to wait a couple of updates and see if it is solved. If not, I will take the device to Genius Bar.

Curious to hear your experiences. Thanks!

/ Jacob

Wow yeah, since I saw this thread I did a test on mine, same as you, ProRaw for whatever reason seems painted. My 14 pro max is much sharper.

I really hope this is just a SW problem as my phone doesn’t overheat, so far no OLED burn in, and issues that some others complained about so I really don’t want to exchange it.

 

[ManuCH]

I made a side to side comparison on my 15 Pro Max (HEIC 24MP vs ProRAW 48MP) and the ProRAW has a distinctive "painting finish" to it. The HEIC is way sharper and looks better.

 

[jajo.j]

I am now only shooting regular RAWs in 48MP using the Firstlight app and I am happy to say that it does not have any of the issues that ProRAW 48 has on the stock Apple camera. So at the moment, this is a great workaround for me.

This is also a clear evidence that it is a software issue and not caused by defective hardware.

Hopefully it will be resolved quickly by Apple in a software update.

Example of a 48MP RAW from Firstlight:


Filmic Firstlight (Stock camera, 1x, 24mm, f/1.7, ISO 64, 48.77MP)

 

[Grobaouche]

I am now only shooting regular RAWs in 48MP using the Firstlight app and I am happy to say that it does not have any of the issues that ProRAW 48 has on the stock Apple camera. So at the moment, this is a great workaround for me.

This is also a clear evidence that it is a software issue and not caused by defective hardware.

Hopefully it will be resolved quickly by Apple in a software update.

Example of a 48MP RAW from Firstlight:


Filmic Firstlight (Stock camera, 1x, 24mm, f/1.7, ISO 64, 48.77MP)

Mega Thanks for your insights, please take 5 min to officially report this problem to Apple here :

Product Feedback

We would love to hear your comments about any of our hardware and software products. Send us your thoughts.

www.apple.com

 

[jajo.j]

Mega Thanks for your insights, please take 5 min to officially report this problem to Apple here :

Product Feedback

We would love to hear your comments about any of our hardware and software products. Send us your thoughts.

www.apple.com

Yeah, I reported it several days ago. Lets hope for a quick fix.

 

[iPhone8Protest]

Having exact same issue here. Your title is absolutely correct. I don't understand how all these supposed photography review websites miss this stuff. Any high frequency detail gets smeared. It's actually crazy how bad it is. This happens on the main sensor, at 48mp Proraw. I've tried Lightroom and Halide as well, but don't actually get a 48mp raw. I'm wondering if Filmic is creating it's own 48mp raw via some multshot magic similar to high res mode on the Pixel 8 or some mirrorless cameras. From the developer of Halide, he made it seem like develops did not have access to the 48mp raw file. Here is an example side by side with....a 5 year old Pixel 3 12mp camera. Pretty bad. I bought a Pixel 8, Pixel 8 Pro, iPhone 15 Pro all in order because each time I was disappointed with the results compared to the Pixel 3. Phones this expensive and 5 years newer should show a lot more improvement.

iPhone 8 Pro 48mp Proraw on left, Pixel 3 DNG on right. 100% crop.

 

[ManuCH]

Having exact same issue here. Your title is absolutely correct. I don't understand how all these supposed photography review websites miss this stuff. Any high frequency detail gets smeared. It's actually crazy how bad it is. This happens on the main sensor, at 48mp Proraw. I've tried Lightroom and Halide as well, but don't actually get a 48mp raw. I'm wondering if Filmic is creating it's own 48mp raw via some multshot magic similar to high res mode on the Pixel 8 or some mirrorless cameras. From the developer of Halide, he made it seem like develops did not have access to the 48mp raw file. Here is an example side by side with....a 5 year old Pixel 3 12mp camera. Pretty bad. I bought a Pixel 8, Pixel 8 Pro, iPhone 15 Pro all in order because each time I was disappointed with the results compared to the Pixel 3. Phones this expensive and 5 years newer should show a lot more improvement.

iPhone 8 Pro 48mp Proraw on left, Pixel 3 DNG on right. 100% crop.

View attachment 2297186

Wait, what do you mean Halide doesn't get you a 48MP RAW file? It does though! Don't you have the setting for that? In "Capture settings" I can choose 12 or 48 MP and then HEIC, RAW or ProRAW.

 

[MarkNewton2023]

Hello all,

My first post on this forum. Unfortunately not a happy one.

I am a photographer and recently upgraded from iPhone 14 Pro Max to the brand new 15 Pro Max. Very excited about this camera. At last we get a good tele zoom that doesn't have the periscope artifacts that most Android alternatives have (lens flare in low light).

But... I always shoot in ProRAW 48 from the main lens to have the best possible quality and flexibility in editing afterwards. I immediately noticed that daylight shots taken with 15 Pro Max in ProRAW 48 are very blurry. Texture is almost non-existent and when inspecting the files at actual size they almost look painted.

Comparing to my ProRAW files from 14 Pro Max, the difference is really huge.

I actually find the HEIC 24MP mode to be much more detailed and has better texture (although with Apple's not so great processing).

Here is a comparison between 14 Pro Max (left) and 15 Pro Max (right), both ProRAW 48.

View attachment 2293120

Did anyone else notice this?

I have reported this as a bug to Apple and also contacted the support that asked me to reset the device to factory defaults and then set it up without restoring iCloud backup. Had no effect at all. I am on iOS 17.0.3.

I guess next step is to replace it, but if this is a software bug that can be solved I really don't want to go through that process.

Right now my plan is to wait a couple of updates and see if it is solved. If not, I will take the device to Genius Bar.

Curious to hear your experiences. Thanks!

/ Jacob

I am not a photographer hence have not noticed this. Thank you so much for letting us know. 😊

 

[iPhone8Protest]

Wait, what do you mean Halide doesn't get you a 48MP RAW file? It does though! Don't you have the setting for that? In "Capture settings" I can choose 12 or 48 MP and then HEIC, RAW or ProRAW.

You can only select ProRAW 48mp, not regular RAW in Halide. If you have ProRAW selected, then click 48mp, it will let you click RAW, but then also selects 12mp, if you go back and look at it. 48mp is greyed out. This is what makes me think maybe Filmic is doing something different here. The Halide people have a great review of both 14 and 15 cameras here:

iPhone 14 Pro Camera Review: A Small Step, A Huge Leap

When the iPhone was first introduced, it packed in quite a few innovations. At a now-legendary keynote, Steve Jobs announced that Apple was launching a widescreen iPod, a phone and an internet communications device. These three devices were not separate new products, he revealed — they were all...

www.lux.camera

iPhone 15 Pro Max Camera Review: Depth and Reach

Sebastiaan de With reviews the latest telephoto-equipped camera out of Cupertino in our annual iPhone 15 Pro Max camera review.

www.lux.camera

 

[iPhone8Protest]

I am now only shooting regular RAWs in 48MP using the Firstlight app and I am happy to say that it does not have any of the issues that ProRAW 48 has on the stock Apple camera. So at the moment, this is a great workaround for me.

This is also a clear evidence that it is a software issue and not caused by defective hardware.

Hopefully it will be resolved quickly by Apple in a software update.

Example of a 48MP RAW from Firstlight:


Filmic Firstlight (Stock camera, 1x, 24mm, f/1.7, ISO 64, 48.77MP)

Just noticed the data for the photo says this is ProRAW. It also says it's from the stock app, so it makes me think maybe Filmic isn't labeling the EXIF info correctly. Have you tried using this Filmic/48mp raw combo in lower light(blue hour)? It seems like you said, Apple is trying to aggressively denoise the ProRAW but the algorithm gets confused on fine details. Unfortunately, I've already boxed up my iPhone 15 Pro to be sent back. Even at its best, it's just not enough of an improvement on my previous phones for the money spent. Same can be said about the Pixel 8 series.

My hope is to be able to someday soon use my phone for all my travel pics and not have to bring the mirrorless with me. It's close, just not quite there yet...still. For portraits or anything that requires a shallower DOF, I still think the phones are a very long ways away from the natural bokeh you get from a fast prime.

 

[jajo.j]

Just noticed the data for the photo says this is ProRAW. It also says it's from the stock app, so it makes me think maybe Filmic isn't labeling the EXIF info correctly. Have you tried using this Filmic/48mp raw combo in lower light(blue hour)? It seems like you said, Apple is trying to aggressively denoise the ProRAW but the algorithm gets confused on fine details. Unfortunately, I've already boxed up my iPhone 15 Pro to be sent back. Even at its best, it's just not enough of an improvement on my previous phones for the money spent. Same can be said about the Pixel 8 series.

My hope is to be able to someday soon use my phone for all my travel pics and not have to bring the mirrorless with me. It's close, just not quite there yet...still. For portraits or anything that requires a shallower DOF, I still think the phones are a very long ways away from the natural bokeh you get from a fast prime.

The RAW 48 from Firstlight is clearly very different from ProRAW from Halide or stock camera. One big difference is that highlights/shadows can be adjusted much more than in regular ProRAWs. It behaves more like a DNG-file from a DSLR. So I still believe Firstlight is doing something different.

 

[jajo.j]

Although Firstlight 48MP RAW is better than ProRAW 48 from stock, it still seems to be something odd going on with sharpness/focus over the image.

Tested the latest 17.1 beta and it did not solve the issue. Been to the Genius bar today and they will replace my phone. Replacement will arrive in 3-5 days. Will let you know if this unit is better.

 

[jajo.j]

Picked up my replacement device today. I will do some testing to see if there are improvements and post some photos here.

17.1 did not solve the issue. Tried it yesterday on my old device.

 

[jajo.j]

Overall the new unit seems to have greater sharpness. But to see if the issue is resolved I need to test in good light tomorrow.

RAW48 is still better than ProRAW48 (which is most likely a software bug).

48MP lowlight with new device:


Apple iPhone 15 Pro Max (Filmic Firstlight, 1x, 24mm, 0.02s, f/1.7, ISO 125, 48.77MP)