I like the whole notion of ProtonMail etc. but their Web based email is just horrible - the gold standard in ugly and user-hostile.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
ProtonMail Unifies Encrypted Mail, Calendar, VPN, and Storage Services Under New 'Proton' Brand
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Swiss-based encrypted email provider ProtonMail...
It is a dreamy and naive fallacy to link Switzerland with data security.
No country can claim this without reservation, and here it serves dusty marketing ideas.
The country is rather known for clever money-making, you can see it here also in the pricing.
It is a dreamy and naive fallacy to link Switzerland with data security.
No country can claim this without reservation, and here it serves dusty marketing ideas.
The country is rather known for clever money-making, you can see it here also in the pricing.
Last edited:
"ProtonMail began as crowdfunded service in May 2014 and launched in March 2016"
Something seems off there. I still have my "Your ProtonMail account is ready!" email from June of 2015. That's when I was able to start using it. I signed up for the waiting list earlier in 2015.
Something seems off there. I still have my "Your ProtonMail account is ready!" email from June of 2015. That's when I was able to start using it. I signed up for the waiting list earlier in 2015.
How secure is Proton? Looking to get away from Gmail their data mining.
I didn't know that Proton was so compromised when it comes to email privacy until I read this thread.
What is safe anymore??
What is safe anymore??
- Under no circumstances can our encryption be bypassed, meaning emails, attachments, calendars, files, etc. cannot be compromised by legal orders.
"The fact that Proton Mail was not able to hand over any messages even under legal order proves that our encryption works,"
ProtonMail uses PGP and makes it nearly invisible to the user. Emails to and from recipients that are using PGP/GPG are end-to-end encrypted. Emails received from users/services that do not use PGP are encrypted upon receipt with your public key and are unreadable to Proton after this happens.
This was true until they launched their v4 web app. I think it's pretty decent now, though tastes vary and reasonable people may disagree on this point. I think it's worth another look though.
If you have a lot of money, that might be an idea.
I wouldn't recommend it to anyone because of the cost alone. Because: I already have Apple and not GMail.
Apple is miles ahead of Gmail - at least privacy-wise, but I still would not trust Apple with private/sensitive stuff, and although iMessage is end-to-end encrypted, the private key is shared across your devices thus it floats somewhere in the Apple Cloud and is accessible to all your devices in order to have all messages synced between the devices (new and old) and I believe it could potentially be used to "decrypt" your iMessages when the time comes.
This is not the case with ProtonMail or eg. Signal Messenger - where new devices has it is own private key and it is stored on the device itself. Adding new device means accessing messages from the moment onwards, not the messaging history like in iMessages.
I have no issues with a company complying with a legally-binding court order. Apple has done the same thing, when it has access to data (such as backup data on its iCloud servers).
You might want to dig into the details yourself, since there's a bit of Apple fanboi handwaving going on. Also look at what Apple does and doesn't do, security-wise.
Certainly everyone is free to choose which email service they use, but I do think it's worth pointing out that Proton has a free plan which has a reasonable amount of email storage to go along with it (1GB), and that emails stored on Apple's servers are still susceptible to an insider attack unless you have manually set up PGP - and in that case, only emails that you've received from senders that are also using PGP. With Proton or Posteo or Mailbox or any other service that supports auto-encryption with your public key when emails are received, the service loses the ability to read the email the moment the cleartext version is discarded. Posteo and Mailbox both start at 1€ monthly which is pretty far from "a lot of money" for most folks using Apple devices.
My threat model is certainly different than yours - everyone's is unique - but I do sometimes need to share sensitive documents with friends and family, and I'm glad to have PGP to facilitate that, and frankly I prefer to have library renewal notices and commerce receipts encrypted automatically with my public key as soon as they arrive. To me, that's worth paying a little bit of money. YMMV, as they say.
For anyone wanting to get serious about their data, email is a really good place to start; PrivacyGuides has a good guide to picking an email provider.
So n org that has keys and encrypted data decrypts said data when the police in the jyrestiction they opperate produce a valid warennt for said data, I don't see the problem here as they have no chice if they want to stay in buisness and avoid legal ramifications. In fact if they refused to do so I would wonder about what the hell their kegal department was up to, oh hold on we're talking about the us here ie corrupt as ****, tea thise warrents myght be questionable...
I'd like to be able to set up a Custom Domain under a Proton Unlimited or Mail Plus account and then add additional users for the same price/month without needing to instead set up a Business plan for multiple users on a custom domain.
When I tried them, the iOS app was horrible. I never got my notifications, but the new app seems better. I use Tutanota and like them a lot.
You are probably doing it wrong. On mac you can have Proton Bridge (if you are paid user) , then you connect proton to your Apple Mail. After that Protonmail is in your inbox and its simple as drop and drop folders and emails.
This is because of the encryption. Apple Mail does not allow you to encrypt the emails or the email inbox. On desktop, there is an accompanying app called Proton Bridge that makes this possible
I do not want to use things that I do not like. Also do not like this color
there are color themes you can choose from
You are correct. Its E2E only between protonmail users (possibly between other encrypted email services like Tutanota idk) .
The inbox itself is encrypted though, no one has access to it except the person with the password. If you lose that, I believe all they can do is reset the email with a new password but the data is gone. I think they can delete it but they cant see it.
Mails are automatically end-to-end encrypted between Proton users. But they use PGP as the underlying encryption system; if someone using another service has configured PGP, it is possible to add their public key to your Proton contacts, after which all mails sent to that person will automatically be E2E-encrypted too. Vice versa, the other person can E2E-encrypt mails to you by using the public key that Proton generates.
Notably they also encrypt incoming unencrypted mails with your public key before storing them in your mailbox, after which nobody but you can access them (zero-knowledge encryption).
Last edited:
I transitioned away from Apple’s Mail because I don’t want to be locked in to one system. I like Apple products, but there’s no guarantee I will in 5-10 years. Or a new competitor might come along and get me to jump ship. So using a third party service gives me more flexibility.
As for price, their unlimited plan comes with 500gb storage for $7.99 a month billed biannually. That’s cheaper per gigabyte then Apple’s 50GB and 200GB plans and includes more email addresses (15) and their premium VPN.
It's inaccurate to state that one gets unlimited mail when there is a storage limit. I tend to keep mail for years. Also, I also dont like the 15 mail account limit. No reason to limit the number of accounts. Right now I have unlimited storage, and accounts for less.
I think some context is missing regarding "unlimited mail" - I believe you are referencing their "unlimited messages" verbiage, which is very specifically comparing the paid tiers to the free tier's limit of sent messages daily. Paid accounts at Proton do not have a limit as to how many messages can be sent daily, whereas free accounts are limited in the number of messages that can be sent daily as a means to combat spammers. I have been a Proton subscriber for several years now and very often receive hundreds of emails daily; this has barely put a dent in my storage quota. I could exhaust the storage quota if I made it a mission to do so, but in most practical scenarios paid users do indeed have "unlimited mail", both sending and receiving.
Regarding the number of email addresses that can be associated with an account - you seem to be referencing the Proton Unlimited tier - I think that this mostly makes sense as far as Proton domains are concerned, but that the limit should not apply to (or should be much higher for) custom domains. Proton has an interest in keeping usernames/addresses available for new users and it seems reasonable to place a limit on how many any given user can claim; if a user has set up a custom domain though, I don't think this argument holds water.
Could you provide a reference for that. I'd like to read about it.
If you send an encrypted email to a non-Proton user, the recipient gets an email with a url. They use the URL to navigate to a Proton website where they can decrypt the message with a password. They can also reply encrypted using that website.