PSA: Apple is Updating Old Apps With Latest Signing Certificate Ahead of iOS 14.5

[saudor]

I know. I keep a copy.

Crap! What if one stays on older iOS? They are not wiping them off the AppStore I hope?

It’s gone off the App Store and from your purchases list. You can force install it using a windows version of iTunes, but it won’t open on the device Saying it’s no longer available on the App Store. Luckily I saved all the files And they only install on 14.4

 

[B4U]

I know. I keep a copy.

Crap! What if one stays on older iOS? They are not wiping them off the AppStore I hope?

I hated that.
What if one stays on older iOS? They are not wiping them off the AppStore I hope?

It is fine for some of the sticker apps about 2 MB a piece, I am not downloading the 2 GB game over and over.

 

[sananda]

Is this why I found today that I can’t open Pages 4.1 (released in June 2018) on my iPhone?

 

[Tech198]

This just seems out of character for Apple...Usually they just snuff their nose at older Apple's(uh....) with "Update your apps or find alternatives" line..

This also goes against their clean up they did removing old apps from the app store stored for several years...

I wonder if that means now it will now be reversed for some apps?

 

[crashnburn]

It’s gone off the App Store and from your purchases list. You can force install it using a windows version of iTunes, but it won’t open on the device Saying it’s no longer available on the App Store. Luckily I saved all the files And they only install on 14.4

WTF! With the 32 bit to 64 bit shift they atleast gave people a heads up.
And even in that I can use my old Phone & Apps.
What & why this backdoor backstabbing?

Is it still possible some way to up from 14.1 to 14.4? - Signing window being gone?

This just seems out of character for Apple...Usually they just snuff their nose at older Apple's(uh....) with "Update your apps or find alternatives" line..

This also goes against their clean up they did removing old apps from the app store stored for several years...

I wonder if that means now it will now be reversed for some apps?

??

 

[crashnburn]

Can folks share what apps of theirs got into trouble?

i am on;
i7 iOS 12.4
ipad ios 14.1

I am contemplating staying on 14.1 or 14.4 (depending on which shsh hash i have saved, or hit 14.7/ ?

How do I/ would I be able to identify which of my apps will get affected?

 

[crashnburn]

I am on;
i7 iOS 12.4
ipad ios 14.1

I am contemplating staying on 14.1 or 14.4 (depending on which shsh hash i have saved, or hit 14.7/ ?

How do I/ would I be able to identify which of my apps will get affected? by 14.5 onwards

@ArtOfWarfare @JosephAW @rforno @esposimi @Gene Rhough @Shirasaki @jarkenson @B4U @saudor @deathnite

Your quoted post comments below in Spoiler. Figured you folks have some related insights?

Spoiler: Compacted for visibility

Seems like Apple is flipping a kill switch on several apps to me.

Any app which has since been removed from the store, either because the developer didn’t renew with Apple or because Apple has removed the app from the store, will suddenly not work in the next iOS version if it’s last update was over 3 years ago.

So, IE, if people have Fortnite on their iPhone, that’ll be blocked as soon as Apple updates iOS to require that the certificate be updated since whenever Fortnite was removed from the store.

I have an NES simulator on my phone (it disguised itself as just a cloud storage management app) - Apple pulled that off the store after I downloaded it. That’ll probably get blocked now, assuming it didn’t get blocked last year (I haven’t used it in several years... probably over 4. Playing old NES games on the go is very much in the Switch’s wheelhouse now. Way better than having a virtual D-pad and other clumsy touchscreen controls.)

I was trying to warn iOS users that 14.5 will break older apps. Hopefully the outcry won’t be so massive that Apple will have to release a dot 1 update to restore functionality and stop filed law suites.

LOL, true. "Users report IOS 14.5 breaking apps. Find out which ones!"

Le sigh, Forbes = clickbait heaven.

This is correct. Here’s what the Crestron app looks like.

Hi everyone, @stroughtonsmith, thank you for posting a screenshot of that, it would of course not be seen by the public otherwise. Can I ask, in your view and others, what the consensus or leading reactions are among developers? In other words, what is the leading theory or perhaps even informed Apple-provided explanation for this? I believe I know with a high degree of certainty why they are issuing this, this is part of a ripple of consequences and reactions by Apple over an event maybe a year ago. If I am right, or at least to continue to test my theory, it's very helpful to know the messaging given to the public, versus messaging given to developers, versus other audiences. Developers especially. Btw I used to be a Mac programmer at a small company way back, we put out the first Quicktime application on the market. I hope they treat their loyal developers better these days. Those were bad times when I was programming, but Apple devs back then were not cut and run types, for better or for worse. Anyone who knows what I am alluding to or has similar interests, please connect! I love meeting new folks. I'm on LinkedIn. Legal Labs moniker will get you to me. Best, Gene

Oh surprise (for me), one of my old app that was pulled by Apple 4 years ago doesn’t work in iOS 14.5 anymore. It worked in iOS 12, 13, and until iOS 14.4. Granted, it’s functionality has mostly gone ever since. But now I am the one who is technically impacted. Gotta say such “no compatibility move” is good for everyone but customers.

I disagree, there are a lot of old iOS apps that I still love and have been using for many years (and many feel the same way). Just because it annoys you doesn't mean you should ruin it for those who use these old "legacy" apps. Instead, Apple should improve their very outdated app store user interface so when you search for things, you can find the kind of apps that you're looking for, maybe add better search filters? Apple's app store UI has been nearly the same for a decade, the app search is terrible and they always show the "most popular apps" in the front... so they need to improve it, removing old apps is not the solution and it doesn't fix the problem. The most annoying thing is they don't filter out the apps that are not compatible with your iOS version (it says "this app is not compatible with your device"), so why not just hide all incompatible apps? You see Apple's app store sucks and it needs to be improved.

So I don't want old apps removed because I use them still and I very much enjoy it still (some even have a nostalgic aspect to it). Bigger app selection is better than small. It's possible that the app developer is no longer alive to update the app anymore, I think it's better to leave the app alone and let folks download it as they please and respect the person's creation. It's also possible the app developer has nothing new to add to the app and that's why they don't update it. You also need to realize some people still use old iPhones and iPads which only could install old apps because new apps are not compatible, if you removed all old apps, then these people will have no app they can install, these are mostly low income people who can't afford a new iPhone model. I suppose you could separate the old apps on the app store from the new apps, but Apple would be too lazy to even do that.

This is the very reason why iTunes 12.6.5.3 is needed.
I can download the apps once and then sync to all the devices instead of downloading all the apps over and over.
Some of us have capped data even at home!

darn. looks like my older apps wont install under 14.5

EDIT; looks like downgrading to 14.4 will allow installation.

RIP old apps, sad day with iOS 14.5 now released to the public.
Apple killed a lot of apps when 32bit support was removed in iOS 11 and now it happens again because of a certificate.
I wasn't expecting this in a point release, they could have waited for iOS 15 at least.

It’s gone off the App Store and from your purchases list. You can force install it using a windows version of iTunes, but it won’t open on the device Saying it’s no longer available on the App Store. Luckily I saved all the files And they only install on 14.4

It is fine for some of the sticker apps about 2 MB a piece, I am not downloading the 2 GB game over and over.

Can folks share what apps of theirs got into trouble?

i am on;
i7 iOS 12.4
ipad ios 14.1

I am contemplating staying on 14.1 or 14.4 (depending on which shsh hash i have saved, or hit 14.7/ ?

How do I/ would I be able to identify which of my apps will get affected?

 

[Shirasaki]

I am on;
i7 iOS 12.4
ipad ios 14.1

I am contemplating staying on 14.1 or 14.4 (depending on which shsh hash i have saved, or hit 14.7/ ?

How do I/ would I be able to identify which of my apps will get affected? by 14.5 onwards

Unless you Maintain a local App Library and you have old iOS devices (iPhone 4s, iPad 1 for example), this change won’t really affect how you use iOS devices.

But if you want to know, you can see if app update shows “using latest apple signing certificate” as update change log and nothing else. You can also identify based on how long the app being not updated. The older app is, the more likely it will be affected.

 

[JosephAW]

Sadly this is the least of our problems with future iOS versions. Looking back now Apple has done nothing to fix the app problems created with iOS 14.5 and higher. Yes devs should have updated but that’s not always possible but iOS updates shouldn’t have broke them.

 

[saudor]

Can folks share what apps of theirs got into trouble?

i am on;
i7 iOS 12.4
ipad ios 14.1

I am contemplating staying on 14.1 or 14.4 (depending on which shsh hash i have saved, or hit 14.7/ ?

How do I/ would I be able to identify which of my apps will get affected?

You dont until you try it on a device running 14.5+ but i think found a work around.
You need to use iMazing to redownload those old App IPAs (but this requires the apps to be on apple's servers. Doesn't have to be currently active on the app store). Use iMazing to add it to your device and it works. Tried it with a bunch of apps that stopped running in 14.5+ and it works on my 2021 M1.

Sample size is still low but so far it's working. Of course, if the IPA file is no longer on apple's servers anywhere, you're kinda out of luck

EDIT: just to clarify, IPAs downloaded using Itunes 12.6.5 (from windows) is still broken. Not sure why but only iMazing's implementation actually works.

 

[B4U]

If the apps are no longer on Apple's servers, you are out of luck, mate.

 

[crashnburn]

So I have maintained the last iTunes version with AppStore: 12.6.5.3 -

I have lots of old apps and some new. Most recent ones have been downloaded via iDevices.
But, I could possibly still pull downloads (at times iTunes starts to do that by itself) and I have to Pause / stop it.
Could also do an Update all Apps. (have iMazing too.. but if iMazing can pull ups, im sure last iTunes can & will).

Again, i'd then have to push them to ext HDD & / or sym link / iMazing.

PS: I have these: iPPro 12.9" 2017 14.1 | i7 12.4 | i6 10.2.x (for old 32 bit apps) | i5 10.2.x (32 bit) | i4 7.x | i1 ?

Question is.. I can bulk down, but "which ones are actually in Danger?"

Unless you Maintain a local App Library and you have old iOS devices (iPhone 4s, iPad 1 for example), this change won’t really affect how you use iOS devices.

But if you want to know, you can see if app update shows “using latest apple signing certificate” as update change log and nothing else.

There were lots of those. But cant be sure which were which. Would doing a future restore to pre 14.5 give me some time to still use them... and maybe LATER figure what died/ got killed after 14.5 - assuming i go ios 15 next year?

You can also identify based on how long the app being not updated. The older app is, the more likely it will be affected.

Thats a major pain to do for each. So no easy way to detect so.

You dont until you try it on a device running 14.5+ but i think found a work around.

So its a one way trap

You need to use iMazing to redownload those old App IPAs (but this requires the apps to be on apple's servers. Doesn't have to be currently active on the app store). Use iMazing to add it to your device and it works.

I think old iTunes will pull them as well. From my "purchases" section.

Tried it with a bunch of apps that stopped running in 14.5+ and it works on my 2021 M1.

Oh wow! So you able to "run it on M1" - how so.. is it signed & executable on M1? Or its so for any prev purchased apps?

Sample size is still low but so far it's working. Of course, if the IPA file is no longer on apple's servers anywhere, you're kinda out of luck

EDIT: just to clarify, IPAs downloaded using Itunes 12.6.5 (from windows) is still broken. Not sure why but only iMazing's implementation actually works.

Ok. Thats an interesting predicament. Wierd and i thought the opposite.

Sadly this is the least of our problems with future iOS versions. Looking back now Apple has done nothing to fix the app problems created with iOS 14.5 and higher. Yes devs should have updated but that’s not always possible but iOS updates shouldn’t have broke them.

If the apps are no longer on Apple's servers, you are out of luck, mate.

This a sad precedent and essentially there wont be "retro computing" of that/ said era left at all with this perpetual need for signing from an authoratarian ruler.

 

[saudor]

M1 iPad. The iTunes method can download it but when installed to the iOS device, it doesnt run.

 

[deathnite]

Apple didn't finish or missed to update the certificate for some apps that are still available in the App Store, both free and paid apps. You can buy one of these apps, but won't be able to download it, that's an issue.
Here's an example of a free app that's still in the App Store. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/cliff-height-timer/id893030245#?platform=iphone

 

[JosephAW]

Too bad we can’t manually install apps using configurator 2 even if it’s not in the App Store.

 

[crashnburn]

Tried it with a bunch of apps that stopped running in 14.5+ and it works on my 2021 M1.

Tried it with a bunch of apps that stopped running in 14.5+ and it works on my 2021 M1.

I assumed M1 MBP or MacOS which allows running iOS IPAs. A bit confused between above and below quotes. What works on the 2021 M1 iPad?. Or does not?

M1 iPad. The iTunes method can download it but when installed to the iOS device, it doesnt run.

So, I tried your mentioned app and i could download and install and run. My guess is, it wont do so on 14.5+?

Apple didn't finish or missed to update the certificate for some apps that are still available in the App Store, both free and paid apps. You can buy one of these apps, but won't be able to download it, that's an issue.
Here's an example of a free app that's still in the App Store. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/cliff-height-timer/id893030245#?platform=iphone

But why? Did they remove some platform code like 32 bit during iOS 10 onwards cut?
Does not seem like a code platform lack, but "signature" limitation on purpose?
Kinda wierd if you can see it on AppStore of 14.5+ and it wont run inspite of purchase and download.

I have some old apps that are pretty nice to have. Seriously.