public transport is horrible...


diane143

macrumors 6502a
Oct 25, 2008
527
7
Nice bike! You couldn't pay me to take public transport. Every time I've tried I've regretted it. Plus I sometimes get carsick so there is always that to worry about. So glad I live in an area where I don't need to depend on it.
 
Nov 28, 2010
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Frankfurt's and Mainz's public transportation system suck anyway, compared to Berlin or even Leipzig. And even Berlin's ÖPNV is horrible, especially during spring and summer, when the trains are fuller than full. I prefer cycling, and I have measured it several times, cycling is sometimes even faster than tube or S-Bahn. Tram is slow anyway, due to all the cars stopping the traffic.
 

neiltc13

macrumors 68040
May 27, 2006
3,115
6
I was shocked to learn how much some public transport drivers earn. London Underground train drivers receive over £44,000 (USD $69,792) per year and they were striking because they didn't think this was enough.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16174789

They also receive 43 days' holiday per year.

I bet there are some people willing to do their job for half the salary and less benefits.

I guess this is why it costs £4 to travel between any two stations on the underground.
 

acidfast7

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Nov 22, 2008
1,440
5
EU
Frankfurt's and Mainz's public transportation system suck anyway, compared to Berlin or even Leipzig. And even Berlin's ÖPNV is horrible, especially during spring and summer, when the trains are fuller than full. I prefer cycling, and I have measured it several times, cycling is sometimes even faster than tube or S-Bahn. Tram is slow anyway, due to all the cars stopping the traffic.
I think Frankfurt's is quite good and really cheap (2.40€ inner city - 3 zones - one way). Stockholm's was the best I've ever used but it's hugely expensive (both per ride and in terms of money/km).

The 10k ride in the morning is the same speed at the U-bahn, but the ride home is actually faster (down the mountain/hill) ... I live near the Main.
 

maril1111

macrumors 68000
Mar 14, 2010
1,848
2
Denmark
We have some of the best public transport here.

Cheap, clean, safe and punctual!


Same, we are getting to the point were slowly hybrid busses will take over as they are already used in some lines for testing. Now price wise it isn't cheap sadly but otherwise they tend to be punctual and good.
 
Nov 28, 2010
22,668
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located
I think Frankfurt's is quite good and really cheap (2.40€ inner city - 3 zones - one way). Stockholm's was the best I've ever used but it's hugely expensive (both per ride and in terms of money/km).
Then it either got cheaper or Berlin got more expensive (which it got, from 3 € per day ticket in the 90s to 6 € for that same ticket now.). The last time I drove ÖPNV in Frankfurt it was more expensive than Berlin, and the ride from Frankfurt to Mainz was almost 8 €, which is a lot for half an hour train ride.

I don't know, which PTS is the best, as I haven't tested that many that thoroughly, but I like, that Germany has quite a good system compared to other countries, especially the US, which is relying too much on cars.
 

acidfast7

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Nov 22, 2008
1,440
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Then it either got cheaper or Berlin got more expensive (which it got, from 3 € per day ticket in the 90s to 6 € for that same ticket now.). The last time I drove ÖPNV in Frankfurt it was more expensive than Berlin, and the ride from Frankfurt to Mainz was almost 8 €, which is a lot for half an hour train ride.

I don't know, which PTS is the best, as I haven't tested that many that thoroughly, but I like, that Germany has quite a good system compared to other countries, especially the US, which is relying too much on cars.
for a Tageskarte it's 4.90€ in Frankfurt. I meant 2.40€ one-way inner city.

ÖPNV? Do you mean RMV? (http://rmv.de)
 
Nov 28, 2010
22,668
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for a Tageskarte it's 4.90€ in Frankfurt. I meant 2.40€ one-way inner city.

ÖPNV? Do you mean RMV? (http://rmv.de)
Öffentlicher PersonenNahVerkehr.
And yes, RMV and however all the other "Verbunde" are called.
And 4,90 € for a day ticket is quite good, but since Frankfurt is a bit smaller and has less lines than Berlin, I can understand that price. When I started in Frankfurt in 2002 it was around 2 € for a day ticket, an "acceptable" price, as any price was "acceptable" after the "1 DM = 1 €" currency conversion.
 

leekohler

macrumors G5
Dec 22, 2004
14,173
19
Chicago, Illinois
Berlin's public transportation is awesome. NYC and Chicago have good systems as well.

I was shocked to learn how much some public transport drivers earn. London Underground train drivers receive over £44,000 (USD $69,792) per year and they were striking because they didn't think this was enough.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16174789

They also receive 43 days' holiday per year.

I bet there are some people willing to do their job for half the salary and less benefits.

I guess this is why it costs £4 to travel between any two stations on the underground.
These people have your life in their hands. I think it best to pay them decently.
 

rhett7660

macrumors G5
Jan 9, 2008
12,281
2,277
Sunny, Southern California
I think NY has one of the best I have seen. I haven't been to Chicago yet so I can't comment on it, but from what I have read, it sounds descent. Southern Cal, Los Angeles County, horrible. It is getting better but man it is horrible IMHO.
 

0098386

Suspended
Jan 18, 2005
21,746
2,886
These people have your life in their hands. I think it best to pay them decently.
They are being paid decently. £44k is a lot.

I rather like public transport. The trains up here are in good condition, they go through a nice part of the country. I've had my best ideas (which is kinda important to my work) on buses. Recently they've been falling behind and it has forced me to get a car.

Watched a documentary about the London Underground last night. An engineer said people complain if they have to wait more than 3 minutes for a tube, as an example of why they're so good. Up here you're waiting an hour for a bus, or 20 minutes for a train. Sometimes people don't know how lucky they are.
 

anjinha

macrumors 604
Oct 21, 2006
7,271
62
San Francisco, CA
I was shocked to learn how much some public transport drivers earn. London Underground train drivers receive over £44,000 (USD $69,792) per year and they were striking because they didn't think this was enough.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16174789

They also receive 43 days' holiday per year.

I bet there are some people willing to do their job for half the salary and less benefits.

I guess this is why it costs £4 to travel between any two stations on the underground.
It's not £4 if you have an oyster card. With an oyster card is £1.5 I believe to travel between two stations in the same zone.

Yes, it is. I was merely responding to neil, who seems to think they should be paid less.
It's not that they should be paid less, it's just that they strike very often because they think they should be paid even more, disturbing everyone else's ability to get to work.
 

Gav2k

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Jul 24, 2009
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leekohler said:
Berlin's public transportation is awesome. NYC and Chicago have good systems as well.

I was shocked to learn how much some public transport drivers earn. London Underground train drivers receive over £44,000 (USD $69,792) per year and they were striking because they didn't think this was enough.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16174789

They also receive 43 days' holiday per year.

I bet there are some people willing to do their job for half the salary and less benefits.

I guess this is why it costs £4 to travel between any two stations on the underground.
These people have your life in their hands. I think it best to pay them decently.
Hardly. They don't do much now and the newer lines are either hold a dead mans switch and push a couple of buttons or fully automated with a womble walking up and down.
 

acidfast7

macrumors 65816
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Nov 22, 2008
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Hardly. They don't do much now and the newer lines are either hold a dead mans switch and push a couple of buttons or fully automated with a womble walking up and down.
in Copenhagen they don't even have drivers.

that solves the Strike problem once and for all

:D

not that the Danes would ever strike, anyway
 

iGav

macrumors G3
Mar 9, 2002
9,025
1
I was shocked to learn how much some public transport drivers earn. London Underground train drivers receive over £44,000 (USD $69,792) per year and they were striking because they didn't think this was enough.
Not only this, but their ever present threat of strike action whenever something rubs them the wrong way and the current militant unionism of holding the capital to ransom over the Olympic period of course, there's a compelling argument to be made that the tube should be automated like the DLR <edit>and Copenhagen apparently. :p

These people have your life in their hands. I think it best to pay them decently.
To put it into context Lee, it's almost (and actually probably is in real terms because their salaries are soon to exceed £50k pa) approaching double the national average salary in the UK.

To put it into another context, it's double what Paramedics make, more than Nurses, Firemen, Police, Junior Doctors, some Doctors, Teachers etc.

It's not that they should be paid less, it's just that they strike very often because they think they should be paid even more, disturbing everyone else's ability to get to work.
Oh, that's not unique to the tube drivers, it's one of the fundamental problems with the current rampant militant unionism and the public sector in general in the UK. :p
 

leekohler

macrumors G5
Dec 22, 2004
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Chicago, Illinois
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Hardly. They don't do much now and the newer lines are either hold a dead mans switch and push a couple of buttons or fully automated with a womble walking up and down.
Ever been in a train wreck on public transit? I have. No one died, but plenty of people got hurt. I prefer those folks be paid well and thoroughly screened.
 

AlphaDogg

macrumors 68040
May 20, 2010
3,414
6
Boulder, CO
Public transport here in Denver is pretty good. There are tons of bus routes, at $1.10 for a student bus ticket that can take you on multiple routes and a lightrail system that costs roughly the same and you can use a lightrail ticket as a bus ticket after you're done with it. However, there aren't that many fare inspectors so a lot of people board the train without buying a ticket and they get away with it. I always buy a ticket so that there is no chance of me getting caught.
 

acidfast7

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Nov 22, 2008
1,440
5
EU
Ever been in a train wreck on public transit? I have. No one died, but plenty of people got hurt. I prefer those folks be paid well and thoroughly screened.
Actually, you get less screening (or perhaps only less transparency) with a strong union.
 

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,943
1,596
New England, USA
Actually, you get less screening (or perhaps only less transparency) with a strong union.
Yup, all unions are evil.

All employers and management are kindly, benevolent, caring, and have the best interests of the workers at heart.

No workers ever need any form of organization to help in relationship with management.

It is, of course, true that unions are not what they used to be when they first developed in the early 20th century. Sadly, they have become something never anticipated when original organizations developed.

As my father was fired from his job at the NY Times because he was involved in the organization of the Newspaper Guild, it is obvious that I am, admittedly, biased.

But to demonize the unions for their flaws, putting trust in the beneficence of management is, IMO, equally incorrect.