Publishers Upset Over Apple's Opt-Out Terms for Inclusion in iOS 9 News App

[Arndroid]

From my limited understanding of how Apple News works, there's two formats to get information published in Apple News: (1) RSS feeds, and (2) Apple News Format. In order to be featured in Apple News, a publisher must (1) first sign up, and then (2a) submit RSS feeds or (2b) wait for and use the Apple News Format to create rich content.

It sounds like there might be some misinformation about how this works being spread by confused publishers? Can someone point me to a claim that Apple will be crawling a publisher's website and ingesting their RSS feed(s) without their express permission?

By publishing an RSS feed permission is implicitly given. There is no such thing as stealing someone's RSS feed.

 

[Arndroid]

People are missing the point. Apple will not be using the feeds as intended, they will be redistributing them.

Itunes radio, not sure if this is the correct name, is free to use. Do you really think that would make it legal for me to re distribute it with my own ads? IF not then why not?

Actually you can redistribute RSS feeds. It is the freaking point. Any publisher who does not want their RSS feed used as intended simply need to stop publishing it.

 

[aloshka]

I'm confused as well -- if I were a publisher I'd be totally cool with this. You mean my content that I write is going to be seen by MILLIONS of people without any work on my part? Sounds awesome to me.

Except you won't be paid for clicks or ad revenue. Apple will

 

[flyinmac]

Would you rather Apple not tell them at all? I'm pretty sure other RSS reader apps have been doing the same thing without notification.
They're not charging for it. They aren't reproducing content that's behind paywalls. Your example is not very clear.

By law, they are required to ask and then wait for explicit permission.

Informing through email and saying I'm doing it unless you read this and respond with an opt out, is not explicit permission.

By the way, I just plastered the Internet with an archive of all your messages. Didn't figure you'd mind since you haven't opted out yet.

RSS feeds don't give Apple any rights to aggregate and redistribute content through their own privately owned service without explicit permission.

Why don't you post copies of Apple's media events on your own servers. You can tell Apple you have their permission since it was where you could link to it, and it was free.

Even better, why don't you write an Android App that aggregates all of the videos from Apples servers and even streams them from their servers. Then your not even copying the videos. Bet you still get sued by Apple.

Even if you send them a nice email, they'll sue you for everything you distributed prior to your service being shut down. Even if you remind them that they hadn't opted out yet.

 

[Porco]

If anything, Apple sending people this email offering and explaining their willingness to provide an opt-out is quite a courtesy.

It would be quite different if they were taking people's content that wasn't in an RSS feed, of course.

 

[Benjamin Frost]

This is appalling behaviour by Apple.

It is what I expect from Google, the lowest of the low.

How many companies does Apple have to alienate in order to win? This celebrity-obsessed company of Cook's is turning into a Frankenstein Monster.

When Steve Jobs told him not to do what he would have done, he didn't mean "Do the exact opposite of what I would have done."

Not paying musicians for three months is pretty execrable, too.

 

[Arndroid]

Well, Apple doesn't intend to just link to it, but display the content and their own ads next to it. Essentially, they are planning to earn money using other people's content. And it is, after all, still copyrighted content. I think Apple is clearly out of line in assuming that publishers would agree to that by default.

Wrong. Just very wrong.

I could run non stop penis enlargement ads in my RSS feed aggregator if I chose. Why do so many not understand what an RSS feed is?

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

You can remove your RSS feed whenever you want by opting out or changing your settings in News Publisher.

Emphasis mine. This indicates to me that the company is already cooperating with Apple and has already said they would provide content with Apple. Apple is automatically grabbing the content, which the publisher has already agreed to give to Apple, via RSS, which the publisher is already publishing on their own.

I don't see what the big deal is.

 

[gadgetguy03]

Google Reader did the same thing. Only the difference here is Apple is involved. Remember Readers biggest flaw? It was shut down. That's it. Apple's making the same product that should work even better on devices and people are upset?

This is a modern take on an old idea.

I doubt Google sent them a courtesy e-mail requesting an opt-out should they so desire.

 

[gadgetguy03]

Well, Apple doesn't intend to just link to it, but display the content and their own ads next to it. Essentially, they are planning to earn money using other people's content. And it is, after all, still copyrighted content. I think Apple is clearly out of line in assuming that publishers would agree to that by default.

Apple has no interest in advertising in the News app. Nothing was mentioned in the keynote. No immediate plans to include ads at launch. That's not to rule it out in the future, but why should they?

 

[Arndroid]

I can't believe anyone actually thinks this. You can't just stick an opt-out contract in an email. It is not binding.

"You agree to let us use, display, store, and reproduce the content in your RSS feeds including placing advertising next to or near your content without compensation to you. Don't worry, we will not put advertising inside your content without your permission.
You confirm that you have all necessary rights to publish your RSS content, and allow Apple to use it for News as we set forth here."

If I were to send you an email that says "you agree to give me all your money unless you respond to this email", what would you think then?

The only problem with your reply is apple is entirely within their legal and ethical rights to do all that without offering an opt-out. The opt-out email is a nice gesture showing a willingness to work with the publishers. Apple was under no obligation to offer it and they would still be entirely within their rights to do all those things.

Traditionally to opt out a publisher would need to remove their RSS feed. Apple is trying to work with them and they are being clueless rockfish.

 

[Arndroid]

It's fairly simple. When you post something on your website, you have copyright over that text. Within certain limitations, others can copy that content (e.g. citation), but generally they need the copyright holder's permission to reproduce the content, especially on their own website or service. Just because you can access the text via an RSS feed, does not mean that you are allowed to do this. They may offer the RSS feed for personal use only to their subscribers (some RSS feeds even have ads within them or are shortened with a link to the webpage). Apple is doing this for commercial reasons and that requires permission.

Wrong

 

[Toltepeceno]

Actually you can redistribute RSS feeds. It is the freaking point. Any publisher who does not want their RSS feed used as intended simply need to stop publishing it.

Wrong! Read the terms of use I posted.

Forbes terms of use

3. RESTRICTIONS. Except as expressly set forth in Section 1 and/or unless otherwise consented to by FORBES.COM, you may not, directly or indirectly: (a) sell, modify, translate, copy, publish, transmit, distribute or otherwise disseminate the Service or any portion thereof; or delete or fail to display any promotional taglines included in the Service; (b) rent, lease, or otherwise transfer rights to the Service; (c) display the name, logo, trademark or other identifier of another person (except for FORBES.COM or you) on your Site in such a manner as to give the viewer the impression that such other person is a publisher or distributor of the Service on the Site;

http://www.forbes.com/fdc/rssTerms.html

Washington Post

5. Copyright

The Services (including, but not limited to, text, photographs, graphics, video, audio content, and computer code) are protected by copyright as collective works or compilation under the copyright laws of the United States and other countries. All individual articles, photographs, graphics, video, audio, and other content or elements comprising the Services are also copyrighted works. All copyrights in the Services are owned by us or by our third-party licensors to the extent permitted under the United States Copyright Act and all international copyright laws. Except for content that you have posted on the Services, or unless expressly authorized by The Washington Post in writing, you are prohibited from publishing, reproducing, distributing, publishing, entering into a database, displaying, performing, modifying, creating derivative works, transmitting, or in any way exploiting any part of the Services, except that you may make use of the content for your own personal use as follows: you may make one machine readable copy and/or print copy that is limited to occasional articles of personal interest only. To obtain written consent to use a copyrighted work, please see our Reprints & Permissions section.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/terms-of-service/2011/11/18/gIQAldiYiN_story.html

 

[Stella]

RSS are not public domain... some have agreements that you must abide by.

A quick search for such an example is Washington Post - Terms of service:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/rss-terms-of-service/2012/01/16/gIQAadFYAQ_story.html

The content of RSS isn't there for the user do to whatever they please. Restrictions can be placed by the provider.

Apple will change these terms to become opt-in.

 

[koruki]

"Let me get this straight, I put a RSS feed up and you just assume that you can use it as a RSS feed?"

 

[Arndroid]

They are most certainly not. Just because e.g. bloggers offer an RSS feed for the convenience of their readers does not mean that they relinquish the rights to their content.

If you knew what an RSS feed was you would know you are wrong. Publishers control how much information is included in a feed but beyond that they don't have much say in it being rebroadcast. It is literally the point of RSS feeds. If someone wants special rules they can create their own lmited scope publishing feed.

 

[Toltepeceno]

"Let me get this straight, I put a RSS feed up and you just assume that you can use it as a RSS feed?"

Let me get this straight, you think terms of use are not binding?

 

[Toltepeceno]

If you knew what an RSS feed was you would know you are wrong. Publishers control how much information is included in a feed but beyond that they don't have much say in it being rebroadcast. It is literally the point of RSS feeds. If someone wants special rules they can create their own lmited scope publishing feed.

Of course they do, they have terms of use. Jeez, where are you getting your info?

 

[Arndroid]

RSS are not public domain... some have agreements that you must abide by.

A quick search for such an example is Washington Post - Terms of service:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/rss-terms-of-service/2012/01/16/gIQAadFYAQ_story.html

The content of RSS isn't there for the user do to whatever they please. Restrictions can be placed by the provider.

Apple will change these terms to become opt-in.

People can claim whatever they want but that does not change what an RSS feed is. The Washington post can create terms of service for something they have no ability to control and it doesn't make it so.

Anyone who wants to defy the RSS internet standard is free to come up with their own newsfeed platform but until then all those conditions are absolutely meaningless.

 

[Nickerbocker]

But... isnt this what RSS feeds are for?

Yeah, that doesnt sound very nice if you read there may be ads next to your stuff, but I mean, when I use an app that reads RSS feeds and displays ads.. whats different?

Apple is being preemptive with these emails. Truth is, the RSS content is already out there to be tapped into and if the content providers don't want it to be tapped into they can remove their RSS feed. Most content providers only include the first paragraph of an article and a reader has to go to the site to read the full article. I suspect Apple's News will work similarly and therefore funnel traffic to these provider sites, so I really don't see what the problem is except that some provider may think that Apple making advertisement bucks off their RSS feed is a problem. But, as you say, what difference does it make considering all the other ad supported RSS feed readers out there?

 

[Arndroid]

Of course they do, they have terms of use. Jeez, where are you getting your info?

It doesn't work that way. You don't get to set terms of use for an RSS feed. It is either an RSS feed or it is not.

Just because websites type legalese on their site proclaiming they magically control their RSS feed does not make it so. The only way to control your RSS feed is not to have one.

 

[TMRJIJ]

You know, maybe I'm just noticing now, but I used to think Apple was non-evil. But with all these new news (monster being dropped out of an open standard because they are suing Beats), standard bullying etc, I'm starting to change my mind.

Also the "just works" doesn't just work anymore and bugginess galore and now the quality has gone bad too. After about 5 overpriced thunderbolt displays only 1 did not have dead pixels, or dust behind the glass (lots of dust, think like huge chunks of what appears to be even hair), or flickering issues. I'm not even that picky, neither is my wife, but when she saw these.. the words wtf is wrong with your monitor came up.

I just don't remember my iPhone 4 not rotating the screen from landscaping, or always rotating it every time I launch an app. I don't remember crashes, lock ups. I don't remember many security issues that are now being discovered daily (mostly because apple is finally appearing on hackers' radars).

So was this always the case or something new?

• My iPhone 4 had a broken sleep/wake button within 2 months of use. It also had antenna problem which did become a public issue resulting in a lawsuit.
• iOS 5 freezes like crap.
• Snow leopard also had public known issues, many that I happened to experience.
• The iMac (2009) had graphics issues.
• iOS 2 was the buggy version in iOS history.

The forum people here either selective memories, worship Steve Jobs, or just bag on Apple not knowing that this stuff has always been happening.
When a company get this huge. The news has to find every little thing wrong to publicize. What used to take weeks to report a bug or hardware issue on this site now takes only a few days because of how popular Apple has become.

 

[Razeus]

Very Google like. And you guys have a problem with Google. But oh, the shoe is on a different foot.

 

[Tork]

Wrong! Read the terms of use I posted.

Forbes terms of use



http://www.forbes.com/fdc/rssTerms.html

Washington Post



http://www.washingtonpost.com/terms-of-service/2011/11/18/gIQAldiYiN_story.html

Both sets of terms of service allow for Apple to do this. Forbes: "GRANT. Subject to the terms of this Agreement and, unless otherwise consented to by FORBES.COM, FORBES.COM hereby grants you, during the Term, a revocable, nontransferable, nonsublicensable, nonexclusive license to display on your Web site ("Site") the headlines, active links, or other source identifiers, and other information or materials, including any promotional taglines that you specifically select to receive from FORBES.COM (collectively, the "Content") through the Service provided that you do not alter, edit, or delete any of the Service. " WP: "We encourage new and innovative uses of our content, and we want our readers to have access to our content in a wide variety of different ways. We therefore make our content available through RSS feeds for personal use (e.g., in a news reader), for many commercial purposes, or for any other form of distribution to a third party." It's the whole point of RSS.

 

[TMRJIJ]

HOW DARE YOU USE MY RSS FEED AS AN RSS FEED!!!!