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'Pulse News Reader' for iPad Pulled From App Store After New York Times Complaint

notabadname said:
That IS why they are losing money. Someone else is making money off of NYT's content and image. Selling a reader is one thing, but packaging it and featuring an entity like NYT, yet NYT not getting any revenue. You don't get paid for your content unless you control its use.

The real reason for the losses is that no one wants to pay for the works of anyone else these days. If we can find a way to get it for free, we will. But that doesn't pay the writers and researchers of the stories for their content. The NYT App generates money through its adds. This reader, featuring their image and material sends nothing back to those content creators. Zero.

Everyone truly seems to think they are entitled to free or excessively cheap; music, books, video entertainment and media. While we all stand in line for a $5.00 cup of Starbucks. All you have to do is read reviews on the App store. Many excellent games and other Apps that are selling for $5.00 or less get one star reviews because "this would be 5 stars if you sold it for $0.99. Even though it provides hours of entertainment. Yet we pay $10.00 for a 90 minute movie. Society today simply feels and acts entitled to the very things they would never give away if they had created the content themselves.
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You just contradicted yourself. It's nobody's fault that NYT doesn't place ads in their RSS feeds. Period.
 
coolfactor said:
So either:
1. all RSS readers need to be free to comply with NYT's policy
-or-
2. NYT pulls its RSS feed

I agree that one *interpretation* is that the developers of Pulse are selling access to free content owned by NYT, but anybody with a grain of common sense knows that the content is separate from the application.

Should NYT win this, that would set a very bad precedent, as any RSS reader developer would be hooped in a lawsuit.
Click to expand...

I would argue that the developers of pulse are selling an interface to free content repositories, not the content itself, since that content is all free to the public.
 
On the other hand, the situation could probably be resolved by Pulse News Reader blocking NYT. Bad for both parties but apparently the NYT doesn't realize that. I guess it's not a very research intensive environment ;)
 
coolfactor said:
Before I chime in any further, I guess I should understand how Pulse works a bit more. Are they more than just a visually-attractive RSS reader? Do they not link directly to the corresponding NYT articles? If not, and they bypass the normal, expected behavior of RSS feeds, then they are in hot water.
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I agree. I also think companies should focus more on the their business models. If Pulse plays their cards right, and they work things out with NYT, it can be a win-win situation ... where Pulse gets rewarded for dragging more traffic to NYT. As it is currently (and I am speaking from ignorance) I believe they are not directly linking to NYT. ... Not that Pulse is wrong, that IS how RSS works, but they can use this as an opportunity.

P.
 
If the NY times feed was removed from the app, what is to stop users from adding it again themselves? I presume this RSS reader allows you to add new feeds apart from the defaults.
 
owen-b said:
They're suggesting that people buy the app because it's got NYT stuff displayed in the screenshots. That's not why people buy the app - they buy it for the nice layout.
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Um, mind reading, aren't you?

And as a matter of fact, you really can't use NYT stuff in screenshots promoting your app--you're supposed to ask permission for that.
 
the new york times is right on point here. Someone else can not resell your content and repurpose it without your authorization/permission.

People saying things like "they publish it and its public, that's the end of their control" are being ignorant.

I can't take the paper edition of the new york times and go copy it and re sell it, that would be illegal. That is essentially what the people are doing here. The RSS feed of their paper is not intended for someone else to repurpose it and resell it.
 
Well I just bought it after it came back, it still has the built in NYT feed and works the same way, I guess apple has some pull.
 
I just got an email form them (Times) pushing a special on their Adobe Air reader.

I get the feeling they are dragging their feet with iPad app dev. ,probably because they don't want to pay Apple's cut.

it's a rather a glaring omission not have a reader for the iPad.
 
Good to know that this is back...can't wait for the iPhone version. Should look gorgeous on the high res screen.
 
marksman said:
the new york times is right on point here. Someone else can not resell your content and repurpose it without your authorization/permission.

People saying things like "they publish it and its public, that's the end of their control" are being ignorant.

I can't take the paper edition of the new york times and go copy it and re sell it, that would be illegal. That is essentially what the people are doing here. The RSS feed of their paper is not intended for someone else to repurpose it and resell it.
Click to expand...

I think the issue is more complicated here since the app is simply pulling the RSS feeds from the NYT....not repackaging content. It's merely letting you view the content.

How is it different from a browser in that regard?
 
chameleon81 said:
And why does Apple behave like a court? If Pulse is breaching the copyright law then NY should warn them not Apple. If Pulse doesn't listen to NY's warning then NY should go to court not to Apple.

Obviously we know why Apple took of the application . They don't want to get sued by NY. What a awkward system!
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That's because Apple is acting as Pulse's agent, collecting 30% of the profit and therefore 30% of the fault if Pulse is guilty. Plus Apple can flip the switch in an instance.
 
Here are the T&C Clearly on the NYT RSS Page:

We encourage the use of NYTimes.com RSS feeds for personal use in a news reader or as part of a non- commercial blog. We require proper format and attribution whenever New York Times content is posted on your web site, and we reserve the right to require that you cease distributing NYTimes.com content. Please read the Terms and Conditions for complete instructions.
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Here are the entire Terms and Conditions for their RSS feed. I checked in Google Cache and they were there on June 1st:

BY DOWNLOADING A RSS FEED (THE "SERVICE") FROM NYTIMES.COM, YOU ARE CONSENTING TO BE BOUND BY AND ARE BECOMING A PARTY TO THIS AGREEMENT ("AGREEMENT"). IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO ALL OF THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, DO NOT DOWNLOAD THE SERVICE. IF THESE TERMS ARE CONSIDERED AN OFFER, ACCEPTANCE IS EXPRESSLY LIMITED TO THESE TERMS.
NYTIMES.COM ("NYTimes.com", "we" or "our") may modify any of the terms and conditions contained in this agreement, at any time and in our sole discretion, by posting a change notice or a new agreement on our site. Your continued use of the service following our posting of a change notice or new agreement on our site will constitute binding acceptance of the change.

1. GRANT. Subject to the terms of this Agreement and, unless otherwise consented to by NYTIMES.COM, NYTIMES.COM hereby grants you, during the Term, a revocable, nontransferable, nonsublicensable, royalty-free, nonexclusive license to display on your Web site ("Site") the headlines, active links, or other source identifiers, and other information or materials, including any promotional taglines that you specifically select to receive from NYTIMES.COM (collectively, the “Content”) through the Service provided that you do not altear, edit, or delete any of the Service. NYTIMES.COM may restrict, suspend or terminate your access to any aspect or all of the Service at any time without liability. NYTIMES.COM reserves the right to modify the Service at any time within NYTIMES.COM's sole discretion. You acknowledge that the Service availability is subject to change at NYTIMES.COM's sole discretion.

2. RESERVATION OF RIGHTS. The Service is protected by the copyright laws of the United States and international copyright treaties. As between the parties, title, ownership rights, and intellectual property rights in and to the Service, and any copies or portions thereof, shall remain in NYTIMES.COM. In addition, any additional programming or technology provided by NYTIMES.COM in connection with the delivery of the Service or otherwise shall remain the sole property of NYTIMES.COM and no part thereof shall be deemed assigned or licensed to you. NYTIMES.COM shall retain all rights to the Service not expressly granted to you under Section 1 of this Agreement.

3. RESTRICTIONS. Except as expressly set forth in Section 1 and/or unless otherwise consented to by NYTIMES.COM, you may not, directly or indirectly: (a) sell, modify, translate, copy, publish, transmit, distribute or otherwise disseminate the Service or any portion thereof; or delete or fail to display any promotional taglines included in the Service; (b) rent, lease, or otherwise transfer rights to the Service; (c) display the name, logo, trademark or other identifier of another person (except for NYTIMES.COM or you) on your Site in such a manner as to give the viewer the impression that such other person is a publisher or distributor of the Service on the Site; (d) remove, conceal or obliterate any copyright or other proprietary notice or any credit-line or date-line on other mark or source identifier included on the Service, including without limitation, the size, color, location or style of NYTIMES.COM's marks; (e) encumber or suffer to exist any lien or security interest on the subject matter of this Agreement; (f) make any representation or warranty on behalf of NYTIMES.COM; or (g) use the Service on any Site that contains nudity or pornographic material of any kind, displays material that exploits children under the age of 18 promotes or provides instructional information about illegal activities or physical harm or injury against any group or individual, or use the Service in any manner that is obscene, defamatory, libelous, invasive of personal privacy or misleading.

Unless otherwise permitted by NYTIMES.COM, you will: (i) display the Service on your Site in the exact form received by you, and not modify or edit any of the foregoing without NYTIMES.COM's prior written consent; (ii) ensure that the fundamental meaning of the Service is not changed or distorted; (iii) comply with all applicable laws and all limitations and restrictions (if any) placed by NYTIMES.COM on the use, display or distribution of any Service ("Usage Restrictions"); (iv) give NYTIMES.COM complete and accurate registration information when requested to do so; and (v) not archive any of the Service for access by users at any future date after the Service has been removed from your Web site. You acknowledge that the service must link and redirect to the appropriate NYTIMES.COM Web page when a user clicks on the Service (e.g. a headline). You shall not display the Service in such a manner that does not allow for successful linking and redirection to, and delivery of, NYTIMES.COM's Web page, nor may you frame any NYTIMES.COM Web page. You must always stipulate that the Service is supplied by NYTimes.com and is protected by copyright and owned by The New York Times Company.

NYTIMES.COM assumes no liability for your activity in connection with the Services and the Service or for the development, operation, and maintenance of your Site. Any fraudulent, abusive, or otherwise illegal activity will be grounds for termination of this Agreement. You will not attempt to hide your identity, represent yourself as someone else, compromise or attempt to compromise the security of any account, or interfere or attempt to interfere with the proper working of Services. If you use, or attempt to use, any Service beyond the scope of the license granted in this Agreement, or beyond the scope expressly granted by NYTIMES.COM, or attempt to, tamper, hack, spoof, use robots or scripts, copy, distribute, modify, or otherwise corrupt the administration, security, or proper function of any part of the Service, then, in addition to termination of this Agreement, you may be subject to appropriate legal and equitable action.

4. WARRANTY DISCLAIMER. You represent and warrant to NYTIMES.COM that your Mark(s) and/or content on your Web site, other than the Service, do not and will not infringe any trademark, service mark, copyright, right to publicity, right of privacy or other intellectual property right of a third party, constitute false, deceptive or unfair advertising or disparagement under applicable law, or fail to comply with applicable laws and regulations (including, for example, licensing requirements and administrative or professional rules). NYTIMES.COM represents and warrants that NYTIMES.COM either is the sole owner of all U.S. trademark, copyright, patent rights and service marks in and to the NYTIMES.COM Service provided to you for display within your Web site or that NYTIMES.COM has sufficient license rights to distribute said NYTIMES.COM Service in the manner contemplated by this Agreement. NYTIMES.COM shall not be liable for any claims or actions arising from any Content included in the Service that has been edited by you in any way. In addition, NYTIMES.COM makes no representations concerning anyinterruption in Service. NYTIMES.COM PROVIDES THE SERVICE AND CONTENT ON AN "AS IS" AND "AS AVAILABLE" BASIS WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, AND NYTIMES.COM HEREBY DISCLAIMS ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, PERFORMANCE, COURSE OF DEALING OR USAGE OF TRADE, ACCURACY OR RELIABILITY. THIS DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY CONSTITUTES AN ESSENTIAL PART OF THIS AGREEMENT.

5. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES AND UNDER NO LEGAL THEORY, TORT, CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR OTHERWISE, SHALL NYTIMES.COM BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY OTHER PERSON FOR ANY INDIRECT, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OF ANY CHARACTER INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOST PROFITS, LOSS OF GOODWILL, WORK STOPPAGE, ACCURACY OF SERVICES, CONTENT OR RESULTS, COMPUTER FAILURE OR MALFUNCTION, DAMAGES RESULTING FROM DISABLING OF THE SERVICE RELATED TO NON-PAYMENT OF LICENSE FEES, COST OF PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS, OR ANY AND ALL OTHER COMMERCIAL DAMAGES OR LOSSES. IN NO EVENT WILL NYTIMES.COM BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES IN EXCESS OF THE FEES PAID BY YOU (IF ANY) IN CONNECTION WITH THE SERVICE, EVEN IF NYTIMES.COM SHALL HAVE BEEN INFORMED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES, OR FOR ANY CLAIM BY ANY OTHER PARTY. TO THE EXTENT THAT THE FOREGOING LIMITATION IS NOT APPLICABLE FOR ANY REASON, THE LIABILITY OF THE PROVIDERS, THIRD PARTY CONTENT PROVIDERS AND THEIR RESPECTIVE AGENTS SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE GREATEST EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW.

6. INDEMNITY. You hereby agree to fully indemnify, defend and hold NYTIMES.COM and its parent and affiliates and their respective officers, directors, employees and licensors (collectively, the "Provider Parties") harmless from and against any and all claims, liability, losses, costs and expenses (including attorneys' fees) incurred by you in connection with: (i) any use or alleged use of the Service through your account by any person, whether or not authorized by you; or (ii) the operation and content on your Site or (iii) any breach of your representations and warranties and other covenants under this Agreement.NYTIMES.COM reserves the right, at its own expense, to assume the exclusive defense and control of any matter otherwise subject to indemnification by you, and in such case, you agree to cooperate with NYTIMES.COM's defense of such claim.

7. TERMINATION. Unless otherwise agreed to by NYTIMES.COM, you may terminate this Agreement and the license granted herein at any time by destroying or removing all copies of the Service from your Site, all hard drives, networks, and other storage media. Unless otherwise agreed to by NYTIMES.COM, NYTIMES.COM may restrict, suspend or terminate the Service, this Agreement, the license granted herein, or your access to any aspect or all of the Service at any time without liability. You agree to destroy or return to NYTIMES.COM all copies of the Service and all Proprietary Information promptly upon learning of such Termination. Sections 2 through 8 shall survive termination of this Agreement.

8. MISCELLANEOUS. This Agreement represents the complete agreement concerning this license between the parties and supersedes all prior and contemporaneous agreements and understandings between them, whether written or oral. If any provision of this Agreement is held to be unenforceable for any reason, such provision shall be reformed only to the extent necessary to make it enforceable. This Agreement shall be governed by and construed under the internal laws and jurisdiction of the State of New York, without regard to its conflict of laws principles. Any action to enforce this agreement shall be brought in the federal or state courts located in New York, New York. You may not assign this Agreement without NYTIMES.COM's prior written consent; any assignment by you without such consent shall be null and void. You shall be responsible for compliance with all applicable laws, rules and regulations, if any, related to the performance of its obligations under this Agreement. Neither party will be liable for any failure to perform any obligation (other than payment obligations) hereunder, or from any delay in the performance thereof, due to causes beyond its control, including industrial disputes of whatever nature, acts of God, public enemy, acts of government, failure of telecommunications, fire or other casualty.

NYTIMES.COM is not responsible for any costs or liability associated with making a connection (by any means) to the Internet, the Service or other online service, or network. You certify you are legally permitted to use the Services and access the Service, and if you are an individual, you are over 18 years of age. You take full responsibility for the selection and use of the Services and access of the content. This Agreement is void where prohibited by law, and the right to access the Service is revoked in such jurisdictions. Nothing in this Agreement will be deemed to limit or restrict NYTIMES.COM from entering into agreements with any other person covering services similar to your Site or from offering such similar services itself. The parties hereto are independent contractors, and nothing in this Agreement creates any partnership, joint venture, agency, franchise, sales representative or employment relationship between the parties. You have no authority to make or accept any offers or representations on our behalf and you shall not make any statement, on your site or otherwise, that conflicts with this Agreement.
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I think it is pretty clear they violated the terms five ways to Sunday. People have to realize that in the US the content creators do have strong rights to control how their content is used... and this is how it should be...
 
coolfactor said:
Before I chime in any further, I guess I should understand how Pulse works a bit more. Are they more than just a visually-attractive RSS reader? Do they not link directly to the corresponding NYT articles? If not, and they bypass the normal, expected behavior of RSS feeds, then they are in hot water.
Click to expand...

I've never used it, but from what I'm reading it SOUNDS like they take the information from the RSS and arrange it into what looks like a website.

In other words, not showing a list of articles, but basically making a whole new website using the Time's content.

But I've never seen it. I, too,a would like someone who is familiar with it to explain what REALLY happens to the content when it's displayed. I'm getting this information from the things the Times has written, which is obviously biased.

Anyone know more?

Cameront9 said:
the app is simply pulling the RSS feeds from the NYT....not repackaging content. It's merely letting you view the content.
Click to expand...

See, that's NOT the way I've been reading it.

I'm hoping someone with direct experience can fill us in.
 
marksman said:
the new york times is right on point here. Someone else can not resell your content and repurpose it without your authorization/permission.

People saying things like "they publish it and its public, that's the end of their control" are being ignorant.

I can't take the paper edition of the new york times and go copy it and re sell it, that would be illegal. That is essentially what the people are doing here. The RSS feed of their paper is not intended for someone else to repurpose it and resell it.
Click to expand...

So what exactly is the RSS feed published for? I honestly don't see how this particular app is repurposing it. From what I have read the Times Lawyers complained about the Reframing of the paper, but all of the Ads are live and linked. They open in a webkit page no different that Safari. I honestly think this is a case of lawyers assuming infringement, rather than understanding the tech.
 
Cameront9 said:
I think the issue is more complicated here since the app is simply pulling the RSS feeds from the NYT....not repackaging content. It's merely letting you view the content.

How is it different from a browser in that regard?
Click to expand...

Exactly, it behaves like every other RSS reader on the planet. I know several of them cost money, so by this logic, they should ALL be free. As I can easily add the NYT's to them. If anything, I think it's stupid, I mean I've never felt compelled to add the NYT's feed to any RSS reader I have used, but I didn't go out of my way either to remove it from Pulse. Now I will.
 
now, i know the internet has moved the line on free information...

but you really think you can take someone's copyrighted material, repackage it, and sell it on your site, with no agreement in place?

you guys REALLY think that lawyers wouldn't have a problem with that?

regardless of right or wrong, you are going to get hammered for that.

and apparently, people will complain about that?

this is sort of like those Scrabulous fellas... in that, WTF were you THINKING? it's like you sat down and thought up the most obvious way to get shut down. i mean, it's outright STUPID to think yer not getting cease and desisted.

business smarts this ain't, i don't care what school they went to.
 
I don't get the beef from the NYT. There are plenty of other RSS apps that have been around for longer, "stealing" content from websites. The Early Edition charges, same with NetNewsWire. Why aren't all of these apps banned?
 
zaphon said:
Exactly, it behaves like every other RSS reader on the planet.
Click to expand...

actually, no it doesn't. helps to READ.

they directly and purposefully violated the terms of use. you think every RSS reader on the planet does that?

go read the story, and see why this isn't like every other RSS reader. then try again.
 
Profiting from the sale of Pulse, particularly when the NYT feed is displayed in Pulse's ads, could constitute exploitation of the content of the NYT RSS, an act which is prohibited by the NYT RSS terms of use.

What I don't understand is why any other paid RSS readers have not been targeted, aside from the publicity which Pulse has received.

I wonder if this is an attempt by the NYT to promote its own iOS app, which includes ad content.
 
marksman said:
the new york times is right on point here. Someone else can not resell your content and repurpose it without your authorization/permission.
Click to expand...

What is the purpose of the RSS feed and how does Pulse repurpose it?
 
At first I thought this complaint was really absurd... but then I started thinking about it some more.

Just because content is available unencrypted on the web, doesn't mean everybody can do with it what they want. It's still copyrighted. It probably comes with an implied license for personal use, but it doesn't come with a redistribution license.

It's like hotlinking other people's images on your own website. It would be okay to give people the link and let them go look at it, but it's not okay to misappropriate the content in your own context (with your own ads or revenue stream).

That being said, I don't think the developers meant bad. They just wanted to add some interesting default values (which most people will delete anyway). But I guess they should rather pick some that allow that.

Remove NYT and republish. If Apple accepts it back, then I think this rejection was all in all fair.
 
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