Other PWM crew - SE Plus now rumored for 2023

[MICHAELSD]

Good deal. I might order one myself, but now that I am looking I can NOT find an Apple 8 battery case anywhere. I can only find the 7, and that isn’t compatible with the se2.

It is a good deal. Payments are ridiculously low at $9.12/month after trade-in. I am slightly concerned I may not like iPhone SE whereas you probably remember that I loved the iPhone 12 Pro Max so much they would have had to pry that from my hands if it didn’t cause me constant headaches/migraines.

On the bright side the Battery Health of my 8+ is at 80% and I do notice unexpected slowdowns at times. It’s only a matter of time before it stops supporting peak performance capability so I am due for a new phone, or battery. I am going to be slightly peeved if they solve PWM on iPhone 13 since at that point I’ll have only had my iPhone SE for five months.

I’ve wondered what option we would have if Apple stopped producing phones with LCD displays. Imagine if iPhone SE, iPhone 11, etc. were no longer in production. I don’t think we could keep an iPhone 12 and just deal with it.

 

[tonybarnaby]

It is a good deal. Payments are ridiculously low at $9.12/month after trade-in. I am slightly concerned I may not like iPhone SE whereas you probably remember that I loved the iPhone 12 Pro Max so much they would have had to pry that from my hands if it didn’t cause me constant headaches/migraines.

On the bright side the Battery Health of my 8+ is at 80% and I do notice unexpected slowdowns at times. It’s only a matter of time before it stops supporting peak performance capability so I am due for a new phone, or battery. I am going to be slightly peeved if they solve PWM on iPhone 13 since at that point I’ll have only had my iPhone SE for five months.

I’ve wondered what option we would have if Apple stopped producing phones with LCD displays. Imagine if iPhone SE, iPhone 11, etc. were no longer in production. I don’t think we could keep an iPhone 12 and just deal with it.

There’s as close to zero % chance of pwm free iPhone 13 as it can get. Samsung still has pwm, and Samsung is the leader in screen tech. If they still utilize pwm, you can rest assured all iPhones will as well.

I thought my pwm was iPhone specific because my previous oled androids didn’t bother me. I borrowed a friends pixel and got pwm headaches, so it appears my eyes have changed over the years. My only option right now is the se2 or a $250 lcd Moto phone. Both of these would be a 2 year solution. I’m close to pulling the trigger on an se2, but I am not guaranteed it would work for me since the 11 and Xr both bother my head.

 

[MICHAELSD]

There’s as close to zero % chance of pwm free iPhone 13 as it can get. Samsung still has pwm, and Samsung is the leader in screen tech. If they still utilize pwm, you can rest assured all iPhones will as well.

I thought my pwm was iPhone specific because my previous oled androids didn’t bother me. I borrowed a friends pixel and got pwm headaches, so it appears my eyes have changed over the years. My only option right now is the se2 or a $250 lcd Moto phone. Both of these would be a 2 year solution. I’m close to pulling the trigger on an se2, but I am not guaranteed it would work for me since the 11 and Xr both bother my head.

The SE is definitely the better option of the two. At the end of the day it’s still an iPhone, which means it has iOS and it will hold its value.

I’ve considered moving to a flip phone or one of the minimalistic smartphone alternatives but it’s too much of a lifestyle change that may not even be practical. iPhone SE is a fair enough compromise.

 

[snipr125]

I assume it’s the same camera as iPhone XR, which is not quite as good as iPhone 11 (and especially not at the level of iPhone 12) but definitely a step-up. In retrospect I don’t use the telephoto lens on the 8+ often, and this is also significantly improved on newer devices.

I’ll consider it a test for two weeks and see how it goes. It is amazing how consumers get a better camera and processor for $399, the 8+ was $799.

Its not the same camera as the XR, the camera hardware is the exact same as the iphone 8 main camera (and 8+) that the SE2020 is based on (so inferior to the XR's camera hardware), however the A13 bionic's computational photography processing power is so powerful that it results in better images than the 8+ and XR, similar to Google Pixel phones.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I still can't get past the downgrade in resolution the XR, 11 and SE2 have from the 7/8 Plus. 1080p is really the lowest acceptable spec in a mobile phone, especially for text - and I do alot of forum reading on my iPhone.

I did find a place online that claim they could fit an LCD screen to the 12 Series but this would blow your warranty and likely the waterproofing. Who knows what other issues it might cause.

Wouldn't it be awesome if Apple let us build our own speced iphone beyond the standard options, like Nike do with their 'customise it' trainers = screen tech, memory size, colour options. They could easily dedicate a few production lines and give a longer lead time, charge more.

But that won't happen, and neither will the iphone 13 be PWM free. So I understand those jumping on the SE2 train due to lack of options. But Apple shouldn't be rewarded with our cash for neglating better LCD options because they really just want us to spend more on OLED which is flawed.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I still can't get past the downgrade in resolution the XR, 11 and SE2 have from the 7/8 Plus. 1080p is really the lowest acceptable spec in a mobile phone, especially for text - and I do alot of forum reading on my iPhone.

I did find a place online that claim they could fit an LCD screen to the 12 Series but this would blow your warranty and likely the waterproofing. Who knows what other issues it might cause.

Wouldn't it be awesome if Apple let us build our own speced iphone beyond the standard options, like Nike do with their 'customise it' trainers = screen tech, memory size, colour options. They could easily dedicate a few production lines and give a longer lead time, charge more.

But that won't happen, and neither will the iphone 13 be PWM free. So I understand those jumping on the SE2 train due to lack of options. But Apple shouldn't be rewarded with our cash for neglating better LCD options because they really just want us to spend more on OLED which is flawed.

If you’re willing to try it they surprisingly have been making third-party LCD panels since the iPhone X, which is an impressive feat of engineering in itself. The irony is that the LCD panels could also be using PWM, just likely at a much higher rate.

One of the benefits of 326ppi vs 401ppi is admittedly that it looks more natural. Long story short iOS renders at 458ppi then downscales it to 1080p on the Plus-sized phones. 458ppi on a LCD would still be preferable.

 

[tonybarnaby]

If you’re willing to try it they surprisingly have been making third-party LCD panels since the iPhone X, which is an impressive feat of engineering in itself. The irony is that the LCD panels could also be using PWM, just likely at a much higher rate.

One of the benefits of 326ppi vs 401ppi is admittedly that it looks more natural. Long story short iOS renders at 458ppi then downscales it to 1080p on the Plus-sized phones. 458ppi on a LCD would still be preferable.

When will your se2 arrive?

 

[MICHAELSD]

When will your se2 arrive?

Tomorrow.

I’m not quite sure yet that this will be the phone I use for the next few years but I don’t regret my decision to try it. If I was able to jump through hoops to play with one in an Apple Store again I probably would have still needed to try it at home to get a feel for whether it works for me. I can say that I did look at one at launch and the display is super vivid and pops. Putting it side-by-side with my 8+ the SE won, hands down.

 

[Htsi]

LCD options will be buying a used iPhone X or later which has an aftermarket LCD. Guaranteed to work, and buy with a return/PayPal.
This is additional headache to solve your current headache.
i would not get a brand new phone’s display changed by the aftermarket, so used is the only bet for a modern iPhone with LCD on the cheap

 

[MICHAELSD]

I think I’ve decided it’s time to replace my iPhone 8 Plus (even if at this point we’re only five months away from iPhone 13). It’s just a matter of which phone.

I would have happily kept my iPhone 12 Pro Max if it didn’t cause me headaches. iPhone 11 is an option, but I feel like I won’t enjoy going backwards since I’ve already tried it and while I didn’t hate it it still left me wanting. Maybe iPhone SE will be the just-right compromise. I wouldn’t deal with a Frankenstein iPhone with a sub-par aftermarket LCD display.

Again I don’t enjoy returning iPhones and wish any of the iPhone 12 models had a fix or workaround for PWM-sensible users.

 

[na1577]

Good deal. I might order one myself, but now that I am looking I can NOT find an Apple 8 battery case anywhere. I can only find the 7, and that isn’t compatible with the se2.

For some reason Apple never made battery cases for the 2017 iPhones. The reason why Apple's website says the iPhone 7 case only works with the iPhone 7 is because it blocks the wireless charging coil in the iPhone 8 and SE 2. But it works perfectly fine with those phones otherwise.

 

[jimmy_uk]

@tonybarnaby so you going for the SE2 then?

 

[Robbosan]

Still yet to find anyone with this problem outside of this forum

 

[jimmy_uk]

Still yet to find anyone with this problem outside of this forum

Which problem, sensitivity to OLED PWM? You should spend some more time searching online if so, forums and youtube are littered with people describing the issue.

Or do you mean the possible issue with dithering with newer Apple LCD? It took many years for some people to realise, then acknowledge that OLED PWM was an issue so it will likely be the same for dithering.

 

[tonybarnaby]

@tonybarnaby so you going for the SE2 then?

I honestly don’t know. I don’t wanna spend nearly $600 on a phone that is a compromise. If my 8+ falls down and completely shatters today then I would get the se2 for sure. For now, I guess I’ll stick with my 8+

 

[MICHAELSD]

I honestly don’t know. I don’t wanna spend nearly $600 on a phone that is a compromise. If my 8+ falls down and completely shatters today then I would get the se2 for sure. For now, I guess I’ll stick with my 8+

Do you absolutely need the battery case? I do wish I got it during Black Friday if I knew I would be trying iPhone SE, but $399-$449 isn’t a bad investment. Also the trade-in on the 8+ is $180, and the convenience outweighs the hassle of making a little more on eBay.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Also the Apple Event announced for next Tuesday could definitely affect my plans.

While it’s unlikely we’ll see a new iPhone SE/SE Plus an iPad Mini Pro could be a perfect compromise as well since while it isn’t a phone it would essentially be like a larger iPhone 12 Pro Max with a LCD display. Mini LED could make the 12.9” model more attractive, but I feel like tablets should be comfortably handheld. I’ll make sure to be determined in my choice so even if I do end up returning iPhone SE I’ll hopefully end up with a new Apple product.

 

[ghanwani]

I did the Apple Card Monthly Installments for a 64GB.

I had considered 128GB but I figure I’ll hopefully be upgrading it within a year or two. I have over 15GB remaining on my 64GB 8+ so I didn’t feel I needed the extra storage even if it’s a better value.

Unless Apple does something special, an SSD that's 70%-75% full will have slower write performance.

 

[tonybarnaby]

Still yet to find anyone with this problem

Do you absolutely need the battery case? I do wish I got it during Black Friday if I knew I would be trying iPhone SE, but $399-$449 isn’t a bad investment. Also the trade-in on the 8+ is $180, and the convenience outweighs the hassle of making a little more on eBay.

My 8+ back is shattered. First smart phone I have ever broken, and I’m nearly 40. So, it’s not worth anything. The price is only holding me back because it’s not what I want. I would happily pay $1400 for a new pro max in the largest storage size, but pwm.

I need a battery case because I work a lot of 16 hour shifts in a place where my signal is on 1 bar.

 

[MICHAELSD]

My 8+ back is shattered. First smart phone I have ever broken, and I’m nearly 40. So, it’s not worth anything. The price is only holding me back because it’s not what I want. I would happily pay $1400 for a new pro max in the largest storage size, but pwm.

I need a battery case because I work a lot of 16 hour shifts in a place where my signal is on 1 bar.

My first impression is that it’s an iPhone. It works, it’s quick, network performance is better than my 8+. The display is also quite good for what it is. 4K HDR video on YouTube (which the app will play natively) looks better than it should on a 720p display. It’s the full iOS experience at an impressive price tag.

The size isn’t a detriment. It feels a little cramped while typing, but so far I wouldn’t call it a dealbreaker. Overall it feels like an “S” upgrade over the 8+, which isn’t necessarily bad.

I agree with you there: I’d much rather be paying $37/month for an iPhone 12 Pro Max than $9/month for an iPhone SE. I’d pay full price but interest-free financing is too good to give up.

The test will be if I end up keeping it, and I can’t say I know one way or the other just yet. My main issue with it is that it’s a year-old for no reason other than that makes it slightly antiquated.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

I am fortunate in that I love the 11. But it took me four tries and hating it 3 times before something clicked. It gives me zero eye strain, nice sized screen (for the first time I’d have chosen the 12 Pro over the Pro Max), and the resolution truly is a paper spec in the long run. If you use this phone each day and don’t spend time pixel peeping other devices your eyes will adapt quickly if it’s even a case where they need to. I do things for my daughter on her 8 plus and find the screen quality to be sub par compared to the 11, despite what the specs say, but that’s just me.

I am determined to try the 13. This time I’m not going to focus on in-store tests, reviews for pwm, wait on notebook check results, or dwell on the issue. Just going to buy it and see what happens. I spent so much time in my own head about pwm that I couldn’t just enjoy the phone. I’m not certain I wouldn’t have felt the same way with an LCD screen because I was so focused on whether I had symptoms or not.

Best of luck to everyone in their journey. We are a tiny subset and Apple, even if aware of folks like us, has no incentive to change what works for the 90+%. I think the SE Plus is a pipe dream and micro LED phones are years away. Hope this 11 has decent legs. I’m just happy to have this camera system.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I am fortunate in that I love the 11. But it took me four tries and hating it 3 times before something clicked. It gives me zero eye strain, nice sized screen (for the first time I’d have chosen the 12 Pro over the Pro Max), and the resolution truly is a paper spec in the long run. If you use this phone each day and don’t spend time pixel peeping other devices your eyes will adapt quickly if it’s even a case where they need to. I do things for my daughter on her 8 plus and find the screen quality to be sub par compared to the 11, despite what the specs say, but that’s just me.

I am determined to try the 13. This time I’m not going to focus on in-store tests, reviews for pwm, wait on notebook check results, or dwell on the issue. Just going to buy it and see what happens. I spent so much time in my own head about pwm that I couldn’t just enjoy the phone. I’m not certain I wouldn’t have felt the same way with an LCD screen because I was so focused on whether I had symptoms or not.

Best of luck to everyone in their journey. We are a tiny subset and Apple, even if aware of folks like us, has no incentive to change what works for the 90+%. I think the SE Plus is a pipe dream and micro LED phones are years away. Hope this 11 has decent legs. I’m just happy to have this camera system.

Well said.

I think that’s the way to do it really: the only way to know for sure if it will work for you is to test it at home, in your own hands — like I’m doing right now with the iPhone SE.

Still, unless there’s a notable change to the PWM in some form it’s unlikely the end result will be any different. Our hope with the LTPO panels is that it makes the amplitude such a flat line there’s basically no PWM like on Apple Watch. I haven’t completely understood why there’s such a discrepancy between the OLED panel on iPhone and Apple Watch. The OLED panels on iPhone seem to be similar to any other smartphone in terms of PWM, instead of breaking the mold with an innovative implementation.

I do have to admit iPhone SE does feel like a downgrade in some ways from the 8+. The size difference is more noticeable to me this morning, and the pixel density is also noticeably less sharp. Much like iPhone XR and 11 it’s like a step back from the iPhone experience I’ve been used to for the past few years since the introduction of the 6+.

I’m not ready to write it off after less than a day since it does have its merits (it’s impressively well-built for a “budget” smartphone) although I do find myself wishing the display extended across the entire front glass.

Where does that leave me? Admittedly iPhone 11 may be a better phone for negligibly more cost, but at the moment I’m not willing to take a step backwards. At least with iPhone SE Plus I would have known what I was getting myself into, and I would have expected it to be even better in some aspects such as the display.

Honestly this search makes me wish I could use any iPhone 12 model since I was totally 100% satisfied with the features and design. This just reminds me that any other iPhone is going to remain a compromise. It’s only $9.12/month and I really want to get rid of my 8+, but truthfully I’m not really happy paying for what I’d consider to be a downgrade in some ways, and a “S” level upgrade in others. That just leaves me with zero options for a new iPhone, unless Apple has a surprise in store for its spring event.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

Well said.

I think that’s the way to do it really: the only way to know for sure if it will work for you is to test it at home, in your own hands — like I’m doing right now with the iPhone SE.

Still, unless there’s a notable change to the PWM in some form it’s unlikely the end result will be any different. Our hope with the LTPO panels is that it makes the amplitude such a flat line there’s basically no PWM like on Apple Watch. I haven’t completely understood why there’s such a discrepancy between the OLED panel on iPhone and Apple Watch. The OLED panels on iPhone seem to be similar to any other smartphone in terms of PWM, instead of breaking the mold with an innovative implementation.

I do have to admit iPhone SE does feel like a downgrade in some ways from the 8+. The size difference is more noticeable to me this morning, and the pixel density is also noticeably less sharp. Much like iPhone XR and 11 it’s like a step back from the iPhone experience I’ve been used to for the past few years since the introduction of the 6+.

I’m not ready to write it off after less than a day since it does have its merits (it’s impressively well-built for a “budget” smartphone) although I do find myself wishing the display extended across the entire front glass.

Where does that leave me? Admittedly iPhone 11 may be a better phone for negligibly more cost, but at the moment I’m not willing to take a step backwards. At least with iPhone SE Plus I would have known what I was getting myself into, and I would have expected it to be even better in some aspects such as the display.

Honestly this search makes me wish I could use any iPhone 12 model since I was totally 100% satisfied with the features and design. This just reminds me that any other iPhone is going to remain a compromise. It’s only $9.12/month and I really want to get rid of my 8+, but truthfully I’m not really happy paying for what I’d consider to be a downgrade in some ways, and a “S” level upgrade in others. That just leaves me with zero options for a new iPhone, unless Apple has a surprise in store for its spring event.

For me, the most important feature of my phone is the camera. Just having night mode makes me happy and I’ve used ultra wide so much more than I thought I would. The photos I produce in less-than-perfect lighting conditions are actually worth keeping whereas the same pics on my wife’s iPhone 8 are grainy and blurry. It is to the degree where the 11 makes usable a photo the 8 cannot (in lower to little light situations).

From the screen resolution aspect, they did something with the “Liquid Retina” on these newer LCD panels. The colors pop more on this compared to my old 8 plus and yet seem more accurate. I cannot see any fuzziness in the text and YouTube/Netflix viewing has been a pleasure. Face ID, while a pain in a store with a mask on, has been so nice for logging into apps and other situations. And lastly, it’s the feeling of having a modern phone. After 3 years with the 8 plus I was just tired of that design.

Of course, all of those things are subjective and merely my feelings on things. If the new SE+ did drop, but didn’t have this camera system or had the old design, I’d pass no matter what they put in it. But again, camera is most important to me. When I had the 12 Pro Max, I put that sucker through the ringer taking comparison shots with my 11. The only time I, or those I showed in a blind test, could tell the difference was very low light night mode. Seeing the difference be negligible despite all of the hype gave me more peace.

 

[MICHAELSD]

For me, the most important feature of my phone is the camera. Just having night mode makes me happy and I’ve used ultra wide so much more than I thought I would. The photos I produce in less-than-perfect lighting conditions are actually worth keeping whereas the same pics on my wife’s iPhone 8 are grainy and blurry. It is to the degree where the 11 makes usable a photo the 8 cannot (in lower to little light situations).

From the screen resolution aspect, they did something with the “Liquid Retina” on these newer LCD panels. The colors pop more on this compared to my old 8 plus and yet seem more accurate. I cannot see any fuzziness in the text and YouTube/Netflix viewing has been a pleasure. Face ID, while a pain in a store with a mask on, has been so nice for logging into apps and other situations. And lastly, it’s the feeling of having a modern phone. After 3 years with the 8 plus I was just tired of that design.

Of course, all of those things are subjective and merely my feelings on things. If the new SE+ did drop, but didn’t have this camera system or had the old design, I’d pass no matter what they put in it. But again, camera is most important to me. When I had the 12 Pro Max, I put that sucker through the ringer taking comparison shots with my 11. The only time I, or those I showed in a blind test, could tell the difference was very low light night mode. Seeing the difference be negligible despite all of the hype gave me more peace.

We all have our priorities. Ironically for me it’s the display.

I do think what they’ve achieved with the “Liquid Retina” display in terms of color accuracy is remarkable. There is room for improvement, but for a LCD it is a top-tier display. Text looks fine and natural as well, but there is a noticeable difference compared to a sharper display. Not that it’s bad by any means, it’s just not the definitive upgrade I would hope to see.

The combination of the improved camera system along with the expertly-calibrated OLED display made the experience ridiculously true-to-life on iPhone 12. I haven’t spent a lot of time testing Night Mode on iPhone 11, but on iPhone 12 Pro Max it could definitely achieve shots that were brighter with more shadow detail than they were in the moment. HDR video was equally amazing on the device itself.

All that being said there will be a new and better iPhone in September, albeit one we likely won’t be able to use, so better luck next generation?

 

[tonybarnaby]

I don’t believe pwm-free oled screens will be here for several years. I also believe the se plus will never see the light of day. Se plus doesn’t make sense for Apple, as it would just steal 11 sales and is basically the same damn phone. There are 3 options for people who can’t use oled:

1. iPhone XR/11/se2
2. Lcd screen Android - Several to choose
3. Keep your older lcd iPhone until it’s obsolete

1 doesn’t work for me, since my head feels the exact same from an 11 as it does from oled. I may try an 11 again, because the se2 is just SO small. It was ok back in the iPhone 1-6 days, but once the 6+ came back and we got a taste of a larger phone, I simply can’t go back without severe discomfort.

2 is probably going to be my only legit option, if I try an 11 and it doesn’t work again. Motorola makes stock android phones for $250, and they have the best battery life of ANY phone, period. (G Power series). It’s a very low end phone, but it gives you 2 solid years of use. Moto even has a high refresh screen phone with a 6000mah battery in the works. Unsure if it’s going to be oled or lcd. For now, a mint used condition 2020 g power is $160. That’s a 6.4” lcd phone with a 5000mah battery and pure stock android.