iPhone XS Max PWM

daviddcmd

macrumors regular
Original poster
Apr 22, 2010
105
39
If Apple doesn't fix the headache causing PWM in their OLED screens in the upcoming models I guess I'm switching to Android. And yes I won't let the door hit me on the way out.
 

Thai

Suspended
Feb 2, 2016
1,459
883
Colorado
If Apple doesn't fix the headache causing PWM in their OLED screens in the upcoming models I guess I'm switching to Android. And yes I won't let the door hit me on the way out.
So, no Samsung too? Doesn’t Pixel now use OLED? LG too i think but could be wrong?

How about iPhone XR?
 

timeconsumer

macrumors 68000
Aug 1, 2008
1,802
1,510
Portland
If Apple doesn't fix the headache causing PWM in their OLED screens in the upcoming models I guess I'm switching to Android. And yes I won't let the door hit me on the way out.
Most Android phones are OLED as well. So you don’t have many choices for flagship specs.

For Android: Zenfone 6, Razerphone 2. Could try OnePlus 7 Pro with the DC dimming option enabled.

For iPhone: XR, 8 Plus, 8.
 

tonybarnaby

macrumors 68020
Dec 3, 2017
2,187
1,540
I don’t get the point of these ‘I’m switching to android’ posts. Just switch and be done with it. But I guess you’re trying to stir something up?
He's frustrated that Apple doesn't make an oled screen that works for him. Same issue for me. I've used a boatload of Android OLED phones with zero issues, but one weekend with my Max was enough to give me a splitting headache where I had to return it. It is a damn shame. Not only that, but the rumor is apple plans to eliminate all LCD models and go OLED only. Their pwm implementation is obviously different from the Android phones I have used.
 

travis64

macrumors 6502a
Nov 18, 2008
844
509
NEW YORK
I pre order the note 10+
Nervous i know andriod is not as good
Hopfully pwm is still not a issue with samsung notes
 

Tsepz

macrumors 68040
Jan 24, 2013
3,845
3,523
Johannesburg, South Africa
If Apple doesn't fix the headache causing PWM in their OLED screens in the upcoming models I guess I'm switching to Android. And yes I won't let the door hit me on the way out.
Yeah some Android OEMs have actually issued software updates to switch from PWM to DC Dimming, my P30 Pro got the 177 update that switched it from PWM to DC. I personally am not affected by this, so I don’t see the difference in actual usage, but I am sure those who are affected are incredibly relieved.
 
  • Like
Reactions: iApple_man

Tsepz

macrumors 68040
Jan 24, 2013
3,845
3,523
Johannesburg, South Africa
So, no Samsung too? Doesn’t Pixel now use OLED? LG too i think but could be wrong?

How about iPhone XR?
Using OLED does not mean it automatically comes with PWM bud or that it will stay PWM. OnePlus 7 Pro uses DC Dimming, the OnePlus 6 range also got updated to DC Dimming:
https://www.xda-developers.com/oneplus-6-6t-oxygenos-908-9016-august-2019-security-patch/

And the Huawei P30 Pro also just got an update to switch from PWM to DC Dimming in the 177 update, hopefully Apple will one day follow in their steps and do the right thing:

 
  • Like
Reactions: iApple_man

tonybarnaby

macrumors 68020
Dec 3, 2017
2,187
1,540
Yeah some Android OEMs have actually issued software updates to switch from PWM to DC Dimming, my P30 Pro got the 177 update that switched it from PWM to DC. I personally am not affected by this, so I don’t see the difference in actual usage, but I am sure those who are affected are incredibly relieved.
Apple implements their pwm differently, even though it's a Samsung screen. I have owned most of the Galaxy models from the s4 onward, and had no issues. No issues with my Moto z play or OnePlus phones (Samsung screens). The only issue I have ever had with any screen was on my Max. I felt it from day 1, and sadly had to return it. Not sure what Apple is doing, but it's not the norm in my experience.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tsepz

Thai

Suspended
Feb 2, 2016
1,459
883
Colorado
Using OLED does not mean it automatically comes with PWM bud or that it will stay PWM. OnePlus 7 Pro uses DC Dimming, the OnePlus 6 range also got updated to DC Dimming:
https://www.xda-developers.com/oneplus-6-6t-oxygenos-908-9016-august-2019-security-patch/

And the Huawei P30 Pro also just got an update to switch from PWM to DC Dimming in the 177 update, hopefully Apple will one day follow in their steps and do the right thing:
I stand corrected.

Good article here why switching to DC dimming do have side effect: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gizmochina.com/2019/04/03/what-is-dc-dimming-why-its-important-for-amoled-smartphones/?amp

“This is because DC dimming has a big drawback. At low levels of brightness, the colors often come out skewed on OLED panels. In OLED panels, a change in voltage could change the emitted colors. So, at lower levels of voltage, the perceived quality of the smartphone display could go down significantly.”


There is no right or wrong. PWM = very accurate display panel, but in a small fraction of people can cause headaches/eye strain. DC = less accurate display panel, but no headaches.

Tough one...Apple cherish its accurate panel...if it switches to DC then will it still maintain its color accuracy in low light?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: upandown

daviddcmd

macrumors regular
Original poster
Apr 22, 2010
105
39
Yeah I'm just frustrated. I like the latest and greatest. Currently have an 8 plus. Tried the XR and didn't think it was worth the price. Low resolution and the bezels bothered me.

I really liked the Xs Max in the weekend I had it but it caused bad headaches.

I'm ready for Apple to take my money next month just please fix the PWM issues. Can't be that difficult. I also have a S10 Plus with an OLED screen and Samsung manages to fix the issue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: iApple_man

Thai

Suspended
Feb 2, 2016
1,459
883
Colorado
I've used AMOLED Samsung phones since the Galaxy s4 and never had any issues. I had an issue with my Max from day 1. You should be good!
Apple implements their pwm differently, even though it's a Samsung screen. I have owned most of the Galaxy models from the s4 onward, and had no issues. No issues with my Moto z play or OnePlus phones (Samsung screens). The only issue I have ever had with any screen was on my Max. I felt it from day 1, and sadly had to return it. Not sure what Apple is doing, but it's not the norm in my experience.
I think that it may be different Hz of flickering between the panels...so maybe some are affected by one and not the other?

But Samsung owners have their own share of headache complaints: https://forums.androidcentral.com/samsung-galaxy-s10-s10-plus/948932-eyestrain-headaches-s10.html
 

Tsepz

macrumors 68040
Jan 24, 2013
3,845
3,523
Johannesburg, South Africa
I stand corrected.

Good article here why switching to DC dimming do have side effect: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gizmochina.com/2019/04/03/what-is-dc-dimming-why-its-important-for-amoled-smartphones/?amp

“This is because DC dimming has a big drawback. At low levels of brightness, the colors often come out skewed on OLED panels. In OLED panels, a change in voltage could change the emitted colors. So, at lower levels of voltage, the perceived quality of the smartphone display could go down significantly.”


There is no right or wrong. PWM = very accurate display panel, but in a small fraction of people can cause headaches/eye strain. DC = less accurate display panel, but no headaches.

Tough one...Apple cherish its accurate panel...if it switches to DC then will it still maintain its color accuracy in low light?
I think at this point it may be worth giving up some accuracy for less headaches.

I’m sure they will find a way around this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: compwiz1202

Thai

Suspended
Feb 2, 2016
1,459
883
Colorado
I think at this point it may be worth giving up some accuracy for less headaches.

I’m sure they will find a way around this.
There is a way around PWM. Turn display brightness above 50%. Then in low light turn ON “Reduced White Point”.

Add Reduced White Point to your accessibility shortcut. This way you can triple click power button whenever you want to turn on that in low light environment.

By doing that no more PWN.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: compwiz1202

kargurin

macrumors 6502
Apr 24, 2015
372
227
Asus ROG Phone 2 is coming out soon and has a 120 Hz refresh rate. Maybe a higher refresh will help.
 

compwiz1202

macrumors 68030
May 20, 2010
2,518
1,379
I think at this point it may be worth giving up some accuracy for less headaches.

I’m sure they will find a way around this.
The big question is is there a way to make it a choice that people can toggle?
[doublepost=1565705056][/doublepost]
There is a way around PWM. Turn display brightness above 50%. Then in low light turn ON “Reduced White Point”.

Add Reduced White Point to your accessibility shortcut. This way you can triple click power button whenever you want to turn on that in low light environment.

By doing that no more PWN.
Cool I was going to ask if keeping the brightness up would mitigate it. Now an even better choice would be an Accessibility toggle of Use Reduced White Point under 50% Brightness.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tsepz

Tsepz

macrumors 68040
Jan 24, 2013
3,845
3,523
Johannesburg, South Africa
The big question is is there a way to make it a choice that people can toggle?
[doublepost=1565705056][/doublepost]
Cool I was going to ask if keeping the brightness up would mitigate it. Now an even better choice would be an Accessibility toggle of Use Reduced White Point under 50% Brightness.
Basically a Toggle that does all the stuff that Thai suggested.

I am now wondering if PWM would affect me

I typically keep my phones at ~65-75% brightness with Night Shift always on and Auto Brightness turned off, so I’ve never actually really used the phones for prolonged times under 50%.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TVTechGrl

majkom

macrumors 65816
May 3, 2011
1,481
742
Yeah I'm just frustrated. I like the latest and greatest. Currently have an 8 plus. Tried the XR and didn't think it was worth the price. Low resolution and the bezels bothered me.

I really liked the Xs Max in the weekend I had it but it caused bad headaches.

I'm ready for Apple to take my money next month just please fix the PWM issues. Can't be that difficult. I also have a S10 Plus with an OLED screen and Samsung manages to fix the issue.
Samsung has pwm and no, samsung did not fix the issue. Tested s10 and note10 - headache as hell... unfortunately, pwm sensitive people are left behind by all big players
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.