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Quad Core 13" rMBP with Broadwell in Q2/Q3 2014?

T

TheSpeed

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 10, 2013
19
0
Been looking at the forums for years and wanted to ask something.

I'm in the market for a new macbook, but I wanted to find out how likely it is that the new Broadwell rMBP 13" will feature Quadcore i5/i7s? Will the tdp, heat dissipation allow a Quadcore to work efficiently in a 13"? Or are Apple wanting to keep the performance gap between the 13 and 15 so as to not cannibalise sales?

I ask as I can hold off with buying a mac for the next few months, even with Haswells improvements in battery life and performance, I wouldn't mind a 13" quad core.

However, would we see a decrease in battery life compared to what the dual core retinas get now? My thinking would be Apple wouldn't allow a decrease in battery life but can broadwells efficiency mean it could perhaps increase battery life or do we have to wait till Skylake?

Thanks
 
Don't expect anything more than a Haswell spec bump in June 2014, and Broadwell in February 2015.
 
Qaanol said:
Don't expect anything more than a Haswell spec bump in June 2014, and Broadwell in February 2015.
Click to expand...

Source? I find it improbable that Apple would leave its high-performance notebooks with the Haswell processors for over a year considering the Broadwell processors are expected to be released next year. There are other possible rumored updates life IGZO displays, Thunderbolt 2, etc.

Though, OP, I don't expect a Broadwell update as soon as February. There could be some spec upgrade and price change in February, as Apple did earlier this year. I also don't anticipate a quad-core processor for the 13-inch. Not good for Apple in my view and TDP, temperature concerns.
 
TheEnthusiast said:
Source? I find it improbable that Apple would leave its high-performance notebooks with the Haswell processors for over a year considering the Broadwell processors are expected to be released next year. There are other possible rumored updates life IGZO displays, Thunderbolt 2, etc.

Though, OP, I don't expect a Broadwell update as soon as February. There could be some spec upgrade and price change in February, as Apple did earlier this year. I also don't anticipate a quad-core processor for the 13-inch. Not good for Apple in my view and TDP, temperature concerns.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply.

But I've been reading that it is indeed possible to have a quadcore processor in a 13" chassis or is this wrong?
 
If anyone wants to hope that broadwell and/or a quadcore 13" is coming Q2/3 2014, they may do so, and it may create some large threads, but it will not change reality.
 
GSPice said:
If anyone wants to hope that broadwell and/or a quadcore 13" is coming Q2/3 2014, they may do so, and it may create some large threads, but it will not change reality.
Click to expand...

Why so? Please elaborate.
 
TheSpeed said:
Thanks for your reply.

But I've been reading that it is indeed possible to have a quadcore processor in a 13" chassis or is this wrong?
Click to expand...

I have no doubt that it is possible. However, I personally don't think that's smart for Apple, from a business perspective. To add to that, it would mean that they would have to add the second fan in the 13-inch model again to better cool a potential quad-core machine. All in all, I just don't see Apple doing it at this point since they want to entice a step up to the 15-inch model, hence the base 15-inch this year. And like I said previously, Broadwell, in all likelihood, will be introduced in a similar fashion to Haswell; not in early 2014 since the processors won't be available anyway.
 
TheEnthusiast said:
I have no doubt that it is possible. However, I personally don't think that's smart for Apple, from a business perspective. To add to that, it would mean that they would have to add the second fan in the 13-inch model again to better cool a potential quad-core machine. All in all, I just don't see Apple doing it at this point since they want to entice a step up to the 15-inch model, hence the base 15-inch this year. And like I said previously, Broadwell, in all likelihood, will be introduced in a similar fashion to Haswell; not in early 2014 since the processors won't be available anyway.
Click to expand...

I know the processors have been delayed, but when do you think the new processors will be released.

In that case I may wait till Feb 2014 to get the incremental update. Do you think this is quite likely to happen?
 
GSPice said:
Honestly I don't have the time to post what can take months/years of reading, depending on how familiar one is with the industry.
Click to expand...

If you don't mind, could you please give a few points as it would help me immensely.
 
TheSpeed said:
I know the processors have been delayed, but when do you think the new processors will be released.

In that case I may wait till Feb 2014 to get the incremental update. Do you think this is quite likely to happen?
Click to expand...

Honestly, don't expect Broadwell processors until late 2014. One, because of the delay, as you've said. The last I've heard, production won't begin until early 2014 meaning shipments won't go live and adopted until mid 2014. Those two factors would mean computers, with Broadwell processors, won't be available until later in 2014. Mid-2014 if your optimistic; later in 2014 in all likelihood since I can't see Apple leaving computers with Haswell processors for over a year.

The February refresh, if Apple sticks with their usual release cycle, is likely, but those models probably won't be much different from the current line-up. Remember though, only Apple knows its plans.
 
TheEnthusiast said:
Honestly, don't expect Broadwell processors until late 2014. One, because of the delay, as you've said. The last I've heard, production won't begin until early 2014 meaning shipments won't go live and adopted until mid 2014. Those two factors would mean computers, with Broadwell processors, won't be available until later in 2014. Mid-2014 if your optimistic; later in 2014 in all likelihood since I can't see Apple leaving computers with Haswell processors for over a year.

The February refresh, if Apple sticks with their usual release cycle, is likely, but those models probably won't be much different from the current line-up. Remember though, only Apple knows its plans.
Click to expand...

I think I'm going to wait till feburary for the refresh so I can have the best possible haswell and also the resale value will be slightly higher when I sell to buy skylake

But can anyone else comment on the broadwell refresh yearning quadcores in mid/late 2014?
 
TheSpeed said:
If you don't mind, could you please give a few points as it would help me immensely.
Click to expand...

There's a handful of other members here who are much more familiar than myself with this topic - mcarling and john123 come to mind. Note that its not like they have a crystal ball on specifics, but a responsible understanding of business and associated trends. I say "responsible" because around here its all too easy to find analytical assertions with the logical integrity of wet toilet paper.

It also helps to become familiar with actual news (not rumors) surrounding the companies that Apple works with (Intel, nvidia, etc.). Just becoming acquainted with Intel news for months and months can help explain what often becomes just a black box here on macrumors.

Hope this helps. Sometimes it's nice to have a grasp of what's actually going on at the macro level, instead of frantically running around about the micro level.
 
GSPice said:
There's a handful of other members here who are much more familiar than myself with this topic - mcarling and john123 come to mind. Note that its not like they have a crystal ball on specifics, but a responsible understanding of business and associated trends. I say "responsible" because around here its all too easy to find analytical assertions with the logical integrity of wet toilet paper.

It also helps to become familiar with actual news (not rumors) surrounding the companies that Apple works with (Intel, nvidia, etc.). Just becoming acquainted with Intel news for months and months can help explain what often becomes just a black box here on macrumors.

Hope this helps. Sometimes it's nice to have a grasp of what's actually going on at the macro level, instead of frantically running around about the micro level.
Click to expand...

Thanks. So in your opinion, we're not likely to see Broadwell till Q3 2014 and no Quadcore option for 13 foot broadwell?
 
TheSpeed said:
Why so? Please elaborate.
Click to expand...

No one can predict Apple perfectly BUT...

Usually Apple releases a CPU change the fall and then boosts the specs on the same CPU family in the spring/beginning of the next year.

Then new familys of CPU's are started again around fall.

For example:
mid 2012 15" rMBP (ivy Bridge) released at 2.3ghz
Early 21013 rMBP (ivy bride still ) released at 2.4ghz
Late 2013 rMBP (haswell) released at 2.0ghz

Usually Apple release Intels lately CPU family, then does a minor clock bump (usually .1ghz) and then later release a new family.

Broadwell rollout will probably be to the ULV CPU machines first (the macBook Air) which is why its update cycle is mid year rather than end of year.


But Im not intel expert or Apple release cycle expert, its just what history shows and it goes further back than just the Retina MacBook Pro
 
Justinhub2003 said:
No one can predict Apple perfectly BUT...

Usually Apple releases a CPU change the fall and then boosts the specs on the same CPU family in the spring/beginning of the next year.

Then new familys of CPU's are started again around fall.

For example:
mid 2012 15" rMBP (ivy Bridge) released at 2.3ghz
Early 21013 rMBP (ivy bride still ) released at 2.4ghz
Late 2013 rMBP (haswell) released at 2.0ghz

Usually Apple release Intels lately CPU family, then does a minor clock bump (usually .1ghz) and then later release a new family.

Broadwell rollout will probably be to the ULV CPU machines first (the macBook Air) which is why its update cycle is mid year rather than end of year.


But Im not intel expert or Apple release cycle expert, its just what history shows and it goes further back than just the Retina MacBook Pro
Click to expand...

Thanks for replying.

I think we will see a February incremental upgrade which I am going to wait for, however, did users predict this because Intel released these newer, faster clocked processors or do Apple use the same processor and over clock them themselves?

Furthermore, do you think we're going to see a quadcore broadwell release late next year for the rMBP 13?
 
My estimation;


1) It's futile and purposeless to wait for a Haswell revision. It literally won't do anything. Those 100-200MHz you get from that. I guarantee you, you won't feel the difference. It's exactly the same tech, tuned just a tiny bit higher. It just gives an illusion that it's the latest, but in reality it won't matter, performance wise.


2) It makes no sense to put in a Quad-Core in a MBP13. The effect on battery, the heat in that small chassis, and they needed iris pro for GPU and CPU to balance itself out. Then you add a lot to the price. And then you only got MBA in the affordable space. It seems to me that Apple is trying to bring rMBP13 prices down. They great idea is that the entry level machine - 4gigs with 128 SSD is really cheap. And then people just add more and more upgrades, letting one machine cover a lot of potential pricepoints.

It's possible that Apple will make a quad-core option for MBP13 in a Broadwell or Skylake revision. But then, again they talked about how Ivy Bridge and Haswell would have Quad-Core as well in the 13. If they did put it in, at what cost then? If 500 USD was added to the price? or if the battery life was cut in half? or if the Quad had to be clocked so low it would feel slower in general computing compared to a faster dual-core?

Don't forget that tons and tons of apps don't even use Quad-core probably. Thus wasting 2 cores.
But it's possible. Of course it is.
I just don't see the point because the ecosystem works so well now.

You got affordable MBA cheap. Then you got business entry level of a MBP13. And then you got a MBP15 for the people who are serious.

If you make the MBP13 more "extreme" you will cannibalize the 15. To make more people fork out the most about of money it's best to "trick" people into getting the upgrades. They dont seem like much at first, but you end up speccing a 1500 dollars notebook, up to 3000 dollars. That's how you get consumers!



Lastly, I have not seen any ultrabook thin notebooks yet Quad-Core technology. Every new CPU generation seems to give us 5-10% performance. I really wonder if this.. modest increase is enough to give such thin machines such a steep step.
 
luffytubby said:
My estimation;


1) It's futile and purposeless to wait for a Haswell revision. It literally won't do anything. Those 100-200MHz you get from that. I guarantee you, you won't feel the difference. It's exactly the same tech, tuned just a tiny bit higher. It just gives an illusion that it's the latest, but in reality it won't matter, performance wise.


2) It makes no sense to put in a Quad-Core in a MBP13. The effect on battery, the heat in that small chassis, and they needed iris pro for GPU and CPU to balance itself out. Then you add a lot to the price. And then you only got MBA in the affordable space. It seems to me that Apple is trying to bring rMBP13 prices down. They great idea is that the entry level machine - 4gigs with 128 SSD is really cheap. And then people just add more and more upgrades, letting one machine cover a lot of potential pricepoints.

It's possible that Apple will make a quad-core option for MBP13 in a Broadwell or Skylake revision. But then, again they talked about how Ivy Bridge and Haswell would have Quad-Core as well in the 13. If they did put it in, at what cost then? If 500 USD was added to the price? or if the battery life was cut in half? or if the Quad had to be clocked so low it would feel slower in general computing compared to a faster dual-core?

Don't forget that tons and tons of apps don't even use Quad-core probably. Thus wasting 2 cores.
But it's possible. Of course it is.
I just don't see the point because the ecosystem works so well now.

You got affordable MBA cheap. Then you got business entry level of a MBP13. And then you got a MBP15 for the people who are serious.

If you make the MBP13 more "extreme" you will cannibalize the 15. To make more people fork out the most about of money it's best to "trick" people into getting the upgrades. They dont seem like much at first, but you end up speccing a 1500 dollars notebook, up to 3000 dollars. That's how you get consumers!



Lastly, I have not seen any ultrabook thin notebooks yet Quad-Core technology. Every new CPU generation seems to give us 5-10% performance. I really wonder if this.. modest increase is enough to give such thin machines such a steep step.
Click to expand...

Thanks for replying.

The reason I was waiting for the Feb upgrade for Haswell is because I don't get money till Christmas time and secondly, the current wait time for a maxed out 16GB RAM i7 rMBP is 3 weeks, making it deep into January. I figured if I could wait an extra 2-3 weeks I could get a updated rMBP 13 thus giving it better resale value as I upgrade every 2 years.

Now on to your points about quad-core. I agree with you, but won't Apple one day have to put a quad core cpu into the 13 chassis as it's only natural? As tech evolves, getting a quadcore to efficiently dissipate heat and use more power should become realistic soon? (I have read that broadwell will allow this but I'm not sure how true this is. Any views on that please?)

What I mean to say is that do we know what kind of processors Intel are releasing for broadwell and whether or not the quadcore variants are likely candidates to successfully work in a 13' chassis without affecting battery life/heat etc?
 
Forget the quad core CPU. Apple should design the top case with built-in solar panel that will keep rMBP charging and extending the usage without using the AC charger.
 
Ai-apple said:
Forget the quad core CPU. Apple should design the top case with built-in solar panel that will keep rMBP charging and extending the usage without using the AC charger.
Click to expand...

Not a bad idea but i'm pretty sure that'll increase the thickness somewhat which is strictly against Apple's mantra.
 
TheSpeed said:
Not a bad idea but i'm pretty sure that'll increase the thickness somewhat which is strictly against Apple's mantra.
Click to expand...

That's why the innovation is needed. I know the current solar panel is very thin, but it could be thinner.
 
There is not going to be an rMBP spec bump in February 2014. Apple releases MBPs on an 8-month cyce, alternating between spec bumps and substantial updates. The only recent exception was the 13" rMBP last year, which was released 4 months behind schedule (ie. after the 15".)

Oct 2013: Haswell rMBP
Feb 2013: rMBP spec bump
-Oct 2012: 13" rMBP released
June 2012: 15" rMBP released
Oct 2011: Unibody MBP spec bump
Feb 2011: Unibody MBP update

Haswell just came out, the next bump will be in June 2014 to Haswell-E. Those processors will support DDR4 RAM, but there is no guarantee Apple would use that.

Broadwell is going to be behind schedule. It might possibly be available for October 2014, but that would be 4 months ahead of Apple's update schedule. It is possible Apple could release MBPs next October to get in on the holiday shopping season, but I would not count on it.
 
Last edited:
TheSpeed said:
Thanks. So in your opinion, we're not likely to see Broadwell till Q3 2014 and no Quadcore option for 13 foot broadwell?
Click to expand...

Yeah, Broadwell in 2014 was expected but is now a bit of optimistic thinking. There's a slew of reasons for no quad core for the 13", but obviously most of those reasons are supportive arguments, vs. a statement of an impossibility (i.e., the razer blade notebook has a quad core).

There's a magical combination of marketing and technical limitations that make up Apple's decisions - the mega haswell thread has a lot of good guesses on both those fronts.
 
On PC the mainstream has not advanced to six cores either. Intel has been working that mobile platform a long time now.
 
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