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Quad Core 13" rMBP with Broadwell in Q2/Q3 2014?
- Thread starter TheSpeed
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Hmm... Interesting.
Forgive me if I'm wrong but the.link states Haswell extreme, with 6 and 8 cores, does this mean quadcore soon then?
And no Broadwell till 2014, might as well wait for skylake
Most of the article is referring to the desktop chips - mobile will follow, but obviously not with all the same specs and capabilities.
Mcarling? Oh no, I wouldn't trust him. He's the guy who thought there would be a Haswell silent refresh in October and then when that didn't happen said the Haswell's wouldn't come out until Feb 2014. All because he really wanted the Haswell while he was in America and when that didn't happen, he started making crazy claims like it was fair more likely the Haswell would be released next year than at the 2nd event.
John 123 on the other hand I've found extremely well versed in this stuff along with your good self. A lot of your posts I've found to be on the money.
Of course, this is just my opinion, but as you say, you gotta be careful of speculation in general on this site.
q4 2014
macbook air q3 2014
keep dreaming on that quad core....intel would be much better off using that die space for graphics
macbook air q3 2014
keep dreaming on that quad core....intel would be much better off using that die space for graphics
Oh trust me- I made sure he knew I totally called it on the dGPU and that he was wrong
He was wrong about the micro, but has good insight on the macro.
Just stumbled across this thread. Thanks to GSPice and smoking monkey for the kind words.
Honestly, this is one where I don't have a darned clue. It's about as murky a picture as I can recall in the last few years with regard to the Intel roadmap. The rumors have been all over the place, and in some cases, we're probably just seeing the same rumor being re-broadcast over and over (e.g., the consensus that Broadwell-K is pushed back to at least Q4 of next year). Further, people tend to talk about Broadwell like it's one thing, but there are actually multiple moving pieces. I haven't been able to tease out authoritatively whether the Broadwell-M (mobile) processors are on track for an earlier release, and most of the "Q4 and beyond" discussion pertains to the Broadwell-K line, which will be built on LGA 1150.
Further, Intel increasingly seems to be recognizing its pattern of falling behind (I was about to type "to its credit," but given the sentence, that doesn't make much sense). Anyway, my point is that they seem to be a bit more willing to call audibles late in the game, which only makes the prognostication game even harder.
Let's for the sake of argument assume that some of the rumors about a mobile refresh being delayed are correct. In that case, my best guess (and it is a guess, and not a terribly informed one at that) is that we will see a Haswell refresh some time between February and July. Some people have suggested February is impossible because Apple's been using 8 month cycles of late, but that logic is backward because it confuses cause and effect; 8 months has largely been a byproduct of the processor release cycle, not a magic number Apple execs concocted. (There's some truth to the other side of this argument—that sales forecasts suggest that a "new" release approximately every 8 months, even if incremental, maximizes profits, but I think this version has the tail wagging the dog a bit too much.)
Anyway, the two largest determinants on "when" are probably going to be:
Honestly, this is one where I don't have a darned clue. It's about as murky a picture as I can recall in the last few years with regard to the Intel roadmap. The rumors have been all over the place, and in some cases, we're probably just seeing the same rumor being re-broadcast over and over (e.g., the consensus that Broadwell-K is pushed back to at least Q4 of next year). Further, people tend to talk about Broadwell like it's one thing, but there are actually multiple moving pieces. I haven't been able to tease out authoritatively whether the Broadwell-M (mobile) processors are on track for an earlier release, and most of the "Q4 and beyond" discussion pertains to the Broadwell-K line, which will be built on LGA 1150.
Further, Intel increasingly seems to be recognizing its pattern of falling behind (I was about to type "to its credit," but given the sentence, that doesn't make much sense). Anyway, my point is that they seem to be a bit more willing to call audibles late in the game, which only makes the prognostication game even harder.
Let's for the sake of argument assume that some of the rumors about a mobile refresh being delayed are correct. In that case, my best guess (and it is a guess, and not a terribly informed one at that) is that we will see a Haswell refresh some time between February and July. Some people have suggested February is impossible because Apple's been using 8 month cycles of late, but that logic is backward because it confuses cause and effect; 8 months has largely been a byproduct of the processor release cycle, not a magic number Apple execs concocted. (There's some truth to the other side of this argument—that sales forecasts suggest that a "new" release approximately every 8 months, even if incremental, maximizes profits, but I think this version has the tail wagging the dog a bit too much.)
Anyway, the two largest determinants on "when" are probably going to be:
- How the Broadwell roadmap is shaping up. If Broadwell looks like a Q3 or beyond proposition, then it's a decent bet Apple will roughly try to split the time gap between the introduction of the currently shipping rMBPs and the introduction of the Broadwell models.
- What Apple decides to do vis a vis Maxwell. Up until recently, I was pretty convinced that this generation of rMBPs would be the last to offer the dGPU as an option. Before that, I was pretty convinced (until the iMacs came out) that we wouldn't see a dGPU option in this revision. Obviously I was wrong there, and I'm increasingly wondering whether Apple might use Maxwell as the chief selling feature for its incremental Haswell update.
Given Intel's track record, I wouldn't be surprised if Broadwell gets pushed back to 2015, like that article suggest. Apple just moved to Haswell/Crystalwell, all bets are on those updating before notebooks see Broadwell.
There haven't been any rumors regarding whether quad core will seep down to the predominant 35W chips. They did offer one 35W quad core with Ivy Bridge IIRC. When it's the norm, you'll see them in a 13".
It's just a matter of what is available. Sometimes intel releases a .1-.2 ghz bump. Apple has partly incorporated those over Sandy and Ivy Bridge. It's not like they will have Broadwell when it isn't shipping.
You're thinking of when they start to stamp out early silicon vs when they actually ship. It certainly won't be early in the year. It might be 2015. I don't see the big deal though. It's not going to be anything incredible like macbook pro replaces a mac pro kind of transition. The next thing would be integrated graphics that don't feel like a hindrance for gaming. I suspect that would move quite a few units.
Apple does not delay releases just for a giggle, or to upset the MR readers. There are usually good reasons for the delay - Haswell mbp was delayed due to TB2. I think stating that Apple is usually late is a gross and unfair generalisation when one looks at evidence beyond one empirical point.
It might not even have been TB2, because the CPUs with Iris and Iris Pro were slow to come out in other laptops too.
I don't expect Broadwell MacBook's before Oct 2014. But like other's have said, a Haswell update in Feb/June 2014 could very much happen. If it's June perhaps also NVIDIA Maxwell dGPU's included. But something makes me doubt this will happen.
Everybody is focusing so much on 13" (or smaller) device lately, it's absurd. The 13" MacBook Pro and MacBook Air seem to be most important for Apple at the moment (laptop wise). I can't give a link proving this, it's more a feeling I get from reading Tech-news for years. Anyway, since Apple's focus is mainly on the 13" rMBP, image this scenario:
June, 2014. NVIDIA has Maxwell ready and probably wants to make a splash, before it goes down (pressure competition is getting higher). This means that Maxwell will indeed have to be a big deal (one way or another, performance, energy-efficiency or price-wise, etc) and they will hype it up. In that case, I can't imagine Apple silently updating the rMBP's in June, with only a message of "updated Haswell processors and new dGPU for the 15" rMBP". In that case, they have to give some attention to the "June, Haswell update" rMBP's. Now here's the thing: I don't see them saying 1. 13" rMBP 0.1GHz faster CPU's / 2. 15" rMBP 0.1GHz faster CPU's + 2-3x as strong dGPU.
I know this seems a bit far fetched, but if Apple does update the rMBP's in June 2014/Broadwell isn't out yet/Maxwell is and Apple wants to do something with it: I see them including Maxwell in both the 13" and 15". Of course the 13" would get a weaker dGPU then the 15", but it would still outperform Intel Iris by at least 50-100%, given that Maxwell indeed brings these huge improvements. One of the other reasons I would see this happen is to make the difference between the MBA and MBP larger again. The current 13" MBA and 13" MBP are far to close to each other. And I expect a sort of rMBA in June 2014 as well, so that makes the difference even smaller...
Retina Macbook Air, (12-13")
- Haswell, Dual Core i7 ULV / iGPU only / max battery life
Retina Macbook Pro, 13"
- Haswell, Dual Core i7 / iGPU slightly better then Air / Maxwell dGPU
Retina Macbook Pro, 15"
- Haswell, Quad Core i7 / iGPU slightly better then Pro 13 / better Maxwell dGPU
It's just an idea
Everybody is focusing so much on 13" (or smaller) device lately, it's absurd. The 13" MacBook Pro and MacBook Air seem to be most important for Apple at the moment (laptop wise). I can't give a link proving this, it's more a feeling I get from reading Tech-news for years. Anyway, since Apple's focus is mainly on the 13" rMBP, image this scenario:
June, 2014. NVIDIA has Maxwell ready and probably wants to make a splash, before it goes down (pressure competition is getting higher). This means that Maxwell will indeed have to be a big deal (one way or another, performance, energy-efficiency or price-wise, etc) and they will hype it up. In that case, I can't imagine Apple silently updating the rMBP's in June, with only a message of "updated Haswell processors and new dGPU for the 15" rMBP". In that case, they have to give some attention to the "June, Haswell update" rMBP's. Now here's the thing: I don't see them saying 1. 13" rMBP 0.1GHz faster CPU's / 2. 15" rMBP 0.1GHz faster CPU's + 2-3x as strong dGPU.
I know this seems a bit far fetched, but if Apple does update the rMBP's in June 2014/Broadwell isn't out yet/Maxwell is and Apple wants to do something with it: I see them including Maxwell in both the 13" and 15". Of course the 13" would get a weaker dGPU then the 15", but it would still outperform Intel Iris by at least 50-100%, given that Maxwell indeed brings these huge improvements. One of the other reasons I would see this happen is to make the difference between the MBA and MBP larger again. The current 13" MBA and 13" MBP are far to close to each other. And I expect a sort of rMBA in June 2014 as well, so that makes the difference even smaller...
Retina Macbook Air, (12-13")
- Haswell, Dual Core i7 ULV / iGPU only / max battery life
Retina Macbook Pro, 13"
- Haswell, Dual Core i7 / iGPU slightly better then Air / Maxwell dGPU
Retina Macbook Pro, 15"
- Haswell, Quad Core i7 / iGPU slightly better then Pro 13 / better Maxwell dGPU
It's just an idea
After the Haswell delay, the rumor of last minute changes on the 15" rMBP and the loss of the 15" cMBP, i bet that Apple decides very late, what they will offer. They have multiple options, one is possibly a quad option for the 13" rMBP. It has been discussed that cooling/heat is not a big problem, but product differentiation is one. If they release a 12" Air with retina, a low voltage quad option for the top spec 13" rMBP seems plausible. But they need the chips from Intel and nVidia. Neither the Broadwell release nor the rumored Maxwell 20nm production is safe. The worst case is that there is nothing new to offer until late 2014, beside a 0,1 Haswell spec bump and maybe DDR4.
Quoted wrong person.
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I never impied why. You did. It's no secret Apple is generally behind the curve when updating architecture.
rMBP Haswell
rMBP (except 15) don't even have the option for quad core
Tons of other instances I don't care to write
How long has it been since Mac Pro was updated? Finally getting released soon. Maybe.
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I never impied why. You did. It's no secret Apple is generally behind the curve when updating architecture.
rMBP Haswell
rMBP (except 15) don't even have the option for quad core
Tons of other instances I don't care to write
How long has it been since Mac Pro was updated? Finally getting released soon. Maybe.
No, it is an incorrect generalisation that has not been true in recent years. Throwing the Mac Pro into the discussion, which is an anomaly that has been discussed to death on the Mac Pro sub-forum, does not prove your point.
The Haswell delays has already been discussed. Your statement about Apple not including a quad core in the 13" MBP does not prove your view either of how 'apple is behind updating architecture". That is quite a leap. Apple has always tried to build balanced computers. For various technical and business reasons they have decided that a quad core 13" MBP does not make sense.
It's not a generalization, it applies to most of their Mac products. You pay $2000 for a 13" macbook pro and you don't get a quad core. They don't update fast and they don't always include the best and latest.
That's no surprise. It's the norm.
I think one has to differentiate more. With some tech, Apple tends to be among the first to push out new products. For many years Apple was one of the first to upgrade their products with new Intel CPUs, also this year I think the Haswell Air was out quite ahead of the competition. Then there is Thunderbolt, retina displays, etc, where Apple is often leading the field.
However on the other hand there are also many strategic and design decisions that delay some tech in Apple products. For example Apple decided not to include USB 3.0 until 2012, since it wanted to push for Thunderbolt. They also value battery life and thinness higher than absolute performance, which is why we don't see quad cores or dGPUs in 13'' machines, and why at best we get mid-range dGPUs in the 15''. These things can sometimes let Apple appear to be behind the curve, but I would say this is by choice, and not because of a general trend of being slow.
Now, on topic:
Intel has no competition in the high end CPU market. Haswell was late and only fully available in late Q3/early Q4. They would be stupid to push out Broadwell in Q2/Q3 2014 even if the tech was ready.
2011 Sandy Bridge - MBP released February 24, 2011. Sandy Bridge mobile CPUs were released Q1/2011
2012 Ivy Bridge - MBP released June 2012. Ivy bridge mobile CPUs were released in Q2 Minor delay from CPU releases due to WWDC
I don’t know. I just don’t see this trend that you’re alluding to. The picture is even more in favour when you take a look at the MBA for the last 3 years.
I am not sure why you've now included price into the discussion. Please focus on the topic, instead of trying to sidetrack it.
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USB 3 delay had absolutely nothing to do with Thunderbolt. They only started to include it when Intel's chipset included support for it, since they didn't want to have to add separate USB 3 headers.