Quad G5 fan noise and calibration

Discussion in 'PowerPC Macs' started by tdbmoss, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. tdbmoss macrumors 6502

    tdbmoss

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    #1
    Any Quad experts in here? :) I picked one up at an auction recently but the fans seem on the loud side whereas I thought they are meant to be very quiet machines. It doesn't seem to get louder if I remove the transparent air deflector, do they normally with Quads, or does this mean the fans are constantly running faster than they should? (my air-cooled dual G5 is extremely loud if you remove the deflector but very quiet if it is in place, whereas this Quad is somewhere in the middle)

    I tried running ASD 2.6.3 to calibrate it, but it ran for 4 hours not changing from "starting calibration of CPU 0" and appearing to be frozen (mouse not moving etc) before I had to turn it off (ASD says calibration should take 10 to 30 minutes). The Overtemp and Checkstop (I think) red lights inside come on pretty much as soon as the calibration is started, not sure if that is normal or not?

    Other wise the machine boots up and runs fine as far as I can tell, it's just louder than it should be, so am trying to work out if there is something wrong with it or not!
     
  2. LightBulbFun macrumors 68020

    LightBulbFun

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Location:
    London UK
    #2

    its a good thing I got a G5 Quad recently with issues close to yours :D

    I noticed my G5 Quad will slow the fans down when I remove the air baffle, apple says this happens even for the Older G5s but i noticed in those that the Backside U3 fan ramps to max so you dont notice the rest of the fans slowing down

    in-regards to thermal calibration, make sure to clean all the dust out the G5 Quads LCS Radiator. My G5 was absolutely filthy/dusty inside and ran quite hot and loud and failed Apple thermal calibration, it did not lock up but it did report CPU 0 and 1 over-temp

    after I evicted the (dust) carpet from the inside of the machine, I re ran Apple thermal calibration and it passed :), I noticed on mine the Backside U4/memory controller Fan will still ramp to 3000RPM fairly quickly, but id not be surprised if theres a carpet of dust behind the logic board there, ill have to evict that one when I pull the logic-board out. and see how it runs then, but otherwise the Quad Runs fairly quiet for a G5 now :)

    I will say I dont recall any of my CPU A or B over temp and checkstop Lights coming on ever during any of the apple thermal cal runs...

    Make sure to clear NVRAM/PRAM and reset the SMU :)
     
  3. rawweb macrumors 6502a

    rawweb

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2015
    #3
    My bets are both of you having failing LCS units in one way or another.
     
  4. jbarley macrumors 68040

    jbarley

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    #4
    Are you always this "cheerful"?:)
     
  5. rawweb macrumors 6502a

    rawweb

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    Aug 7, 2015
    #5
    No, but I’ve been “hosed” by a couple of quads in my time.

    If you have a working unit, they’re beautiful. If not, it can be a real pain in the rear.

    The system freezing during calibration is a sign that one or both CPUs are overheating likely due to the LCS :(
     
  6. LightBulbFun macrumors 68020

    LightBulbFun

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Location:
    London UK
    #6
    checked mine over its fine :) single pump unit to boot too with no signs of leakage, after cleaning it out and running thermal cal both my temps and fan speed are good :) I have seen G5 Quads where the CPUs them selfs go bad and start reporting CPU over temp etc, I believe @Surrat has had experience handling that.

    when I say carpet I mean carpet Mmm yummy LOL

    upload_2017-11-4_15-31-59.png
     
  7. rawweb macrumors 6502a

    rawweb

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2015
    #7
    Holy cow! Yeah that might do it lol. I’d take that bad boy down to it’s skivies and give it a once over!
     
  8. LightBulbFun macrumors 68020

    LightBulbFun

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    #8
    Yeah! I had to break out the Vacuum cleaner with a small brush stuck to the end of the hose to clean that one out... that worked surprisingly well at cleaning out the dust blanket and the dust between the fins...

    its sad how people neglect their machines like this...

    BTW heres a picture of the LCS it self (im pretty sure this is the single pump unit)

    upload_2017-11-4_15-41-52.png
     
  9. jbarley macrumors 68040

    jbarley

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2006
    Location:
    Vancouver Island
    #9
    I've had a good working unit for several years but lately it has been in storage.
    I developed an interest in early Classic MacPros and running unsupported operating systems.
    Started down this road with a MacPro1,1 which is now running El-Capitan and then moved on to a MacPro3,1 which is running Sierra.
    I've tried High Sierra but had software application issues so settled on Sierra which runs really good.
    Whoops, think I maybe hijacked this thread...:eek:
     
  10. eyoungren macrumors Core

    eyoungren

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    #10
    James, you continue to amaze me! :D
     
  11. jbarley macrumors 68040

    jbarley

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    #11
    Hell at 81, I amaze myself most of the time.;)
     
  12. rawweb macrumors 6502a

    rawweb

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2015
    #12
    Yep, you’ve been blessed with the single pump version!

    If you’re handy, the processor unit is fairly easy to remove (with the correct long handle screw driver) if you follow the service manual to the letter. It might allow you better access to really scrub that out. Just be careful when reinstalling to make sure the processor cards are perfectly lined up. They’re flexible. Be sure to apply even firm pressure up or down when removing or inserting. Never side to side...

    If you’re feeling adventurous, a couple of screws will allow you to remove the processor cards on the bottom of the LCS and instal new thermal paste. If you suspect one of the processor cards faulty (freezes on calibration, etc) you can remove it and test if the machine works without issue. If CPU B is ever suspect, you can software disable it in OSX if you don’t feel like getting this deep.

    Not sure you needed any of that info, but as I said, I’ve been down this road. Might help OP?
     
  13. tdbmoss thread starter macrumors 6502

    tdbmoss

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    #13
    Thanks - what parts did you need to remove in order to get the problem dust out? Not sure I want to get that deep, certainly don't want to touch the liquid cooling system...I was hoping there might be some easy fix like something I was doing wrong in the use of ASD or it might be that some of what I'm seeing is normal behaviour for Quads.

    Does the mouse cursor normally move throughout the calibration process or is it normal that it freezes? I have never used ASD before...

    If anyone near me wants to buy what seems to be a perfectly working Quad (case is pretty scratched though) but with this issue, let me know :p
     
  14. LightBulbFun macrumors 68020

    LightBulbFun

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    Nov 17, 2013
    Location:
    London UK
    #14
    you are Using ASD 2.6.3 right? the mouse can be moved but its very sluggish during thermal cal like taking 30 seconds to 5 minutes to respond to movement, if it aint responding after like 5 mins then yeah its prolly froze, also make sure to only boot from the OF part of ASD 2.6.3 not the OS part

    all I did to get to that dust was remove the big "G5" metal cover and the plastic cowl round the radiator. (the plastic cowl/shroud thing is in place in my photos but it simply pulls out.) then I busted out the vacuum cleaner :)

    when pulling the G5 cover off make sure to send us a picture of the LCS so we can tell what type it is :)

    where are you based exactly? I might be interested in that Quad if its cheap LOL my G5 Quad while working fine, its case beaten up badly during shipping sadly :(
     
  15. tdbmoss thread starter macrumors 6502

    tdbmoss

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    #15
    Thanks - how did you get the rivet holding the "G5" cover off? The service manual says to pry up the central part but it is all completely flat against the metal part and there's no obvious opening or way to get into it?

    Also the service manual says the rivet should be replaced for the Quad but that it doesn't matter for the Dual G5s - does it matter if not replaced as it looks like removing it breaks it and I obviously don't have another one?

    Lastly, is vacuuming the best way to clean it out? Whenever I have seen vacuuming inside computers discussed before it has always been said to be something best avoided because of the static?

    Regarding ASD yes it's 2.6.3 and I am using the part that you get if you hold the "C" key (it looks a bit like the classic Mac OS), I assume that is the right part as the instructions say the other part won't boot at all on the Quad.
     
  16. LightBulbFun macrumors 68020

    LightBulbFun

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    Nov 17, 2013
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    London UK
    #16
    my Quad at some point had a new logic-board (and who knows what else) fitted by Apple, and they never put the plastic rivet back in place LOL

    in regards to removing it, it is indeed 2 parts (at least it is on my AGP G5s) i used 2 Razor blade style things to pry the inner pin out on my AGP G5s.

    in ASD both sides look like platinum Mac OS 8-9 LOL, hold option and select the option that shows a picture of a Mac with an IC over it. but from what I understand the OS part of ASD does not boot at all on the PCIe G5s... so you are probably booting into the correct side.

    I too was concerned about static, but I had nothing else on hand that would even remotely touch the carpet that had grown on my Radiator LOL so I just used that. if your Vacuum cleaner hoses end is metal you can ground that if you wanna be safe.

    theres nothing wrong with not putting the rivet back in. as I said mine was missing when I got it LOL
     
  17. tdbmoss thread starter macrumors 6502

    tdbmoss

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    #17
    I eventually got the rivet out, here is what was inside:

    WP_20171107_11_55_10_Pro.jpg
    WP_20171107_11_55_20_Pro.jpg

    I cleaned out as much of the dust from the radiator as I could, but the thermal calibrartion still freezes (I checked and am definitely using the OF part of ASD). I ran the hardware tests in ASD and get the same freeze (mouse stops moving and red lights inside for Overtemp and Checkstop come on) when it gets to this point - so I'm guessing there is something not quite right with this G5? :(

    WP_20171107_14_51_48_Pro.jpg
     
  18. LightBulbFun macrumors 68020

    LightBulbFun

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    Nov 17, 2013
    Location:
    London UK
    #18
    so I aint the only with a G5 carpet...

    the fact it freezes still with those LEDs lit does sound like a CPU issue, if you boot into OS X and THRASH the CPUs what temps do you get/does it lock up? I wonder if yours was run for a long time with that carpet in place causing the CPUs to overheat and get damaged or cause the coolant to slowly evaporate.

    the good news tho is you have the better single pump LCS :)
     
  19. tdbmoss, Nov 7, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017

    tdbmoss thread starter macrumors 6502

    tdbmoss

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    #19
    Thanks - I had it running for a few hours before cleaning it out and noticed the red Overtemp light on after a while, it didn't freeze but was loud. If there's nothing else that can be done with it short of difficult things like messing around with the liquid cooling system then I think I'm going to sell it to someone that wants the parts now.

    If anyone wants it for £50 and can collect from near Cambridge (UK) then it's yours, else it's going to eBay :p The case is structurally sound but it has come from an office environment so is pretty scratched, has one tiny dent at the bottom of the front mesh, and has stickers on it - as I outlined it seems to work fine apart from this issue, and it has 4 GB memory (8x 512 MB), 1x 250 GB hard drive, GeForce 6600 256 MB dual DVI card, SuperDrive, no AP/no BT.
     
  20. LightBulbFun macrumors 68020

    LightBulbFun

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    Nov 17, 2013
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    London UK
    #20
    mind sending a picture of the Radiator after you dusted it out? does the OT LED still light? you can try pulling the entire LCS out and repasting the CPUs that should help with temps somewhat. repasting the CPUs does not involve tearing apart the LCS it self just removing it like you would remove any other heatsink.

    Cambridge thats a bit far from me, (plus I dont have £50 atm :D ) otherwise id of taken it off your hands if nothing else as a parts unit for my Quad. (id probably swap the guts around)
     
  21. tdbmoss thread starter macrumors 6502

    tdbmoss

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    #21
    The Overtemp and Checkstop red lights are only coming on when it freezes when running ASD's test or calibrate functions, it didn't come on when just running the machine normally, though I haven't tried thrashing it. I've put it all back together now but the radiator was pretty clear afterwards.
     
  22. LightBulbFun macrumors 68020

    LightBulbFun

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    Nov 17, 2013
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    London UK
    #22
    Cinebench is a good application to thrash it Cinebench R11.5 is the last PowerPC version :) its what I used to thrash mine.

    another thing that might help it pass thermal cal is put a fan pushing air through the front of it or put it outside on a cold day and run it then, I know a couple people that have done that to get Quads to pass thermal cal, and have ran fine ever since. :)
     
  23. SuperKerem macrumors 6502a

    SuperKerem

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    #23
    Ditto.

    I have a Quad with this exact issue, word for word, same LEDs lit up etc. At one point I ran it air-cooled with a single CPU, but soon after I re-installed the LCS and the second CPU despite it being uncomfortably loud to use.

    No leaks, I’d guess that it’s because some of the water in the coolant evaporated out through the joints over time. I was able to calibrate by running it outdoors, but no amount of calibration was able to fix this hardware issue. Still on the lookout for a good LCS to this day.
     

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22 November 4, 2017