Quad iMac undercuts Quad Mac Pro

[Spanky Deluxe]

The things you can upgrade include:

Storage: 5 internal bays on a Mac Pro (4HD + 1Optical). You would need an external enclosure like this for the equivalent in an iMac. With a MP you can also add an eSATA card for additional external storage. Finally, you can swap the optical drive or add a second one if you like on the MP. While it might be possible to update the iMac slot loading drive down the road, it may not be practical.

Memory: 4 DIMM slots in both the MP and iMac with up to 16GB capacity.

Graphics: Graphics card choices are limited for both a MP and an iMac. You have the GT120, ATI 4870, and GTX285 for the MP and can add multiple cards if you want to run more than 2 monitors. I believe you have just the 4850 for the top iMac but can drive two displays from the included card.

Processor: The processor can definitely be upgraded in the MP. It's highly likely it will also be upgradable in the iMac (although with a bit more effort). However, the processor in the iMac is pretty damn good.

Display: Of course with the MP, you can change displays on a whim... not the case with the iMac... however, you are basically getting the display for free with the iMac.

Yeah the Mac Pros definitely have a lot more upgrade potential than the iMacs. However, just because its there doesn't mean that you'll use it. I've upgraded my Mac Pro a fair chunk over the years. I've added more RAM, added many hard drives (6.25TB to be precise) and upgraded the graphics cards twice. However, those hard drives could have been externals. RAM wise the Quad costs about £850 in the UK to upgrade third party to 16GB compared to £920 for the iMac so there's not much in that and the difference will be even smaller in two year's time.
So the biggest difference in terms of upgradability between a Mac Pro Quad and an iMac is the display and the graphics card. However, considering an iMac 27" i5 costs £1599 and a Mac Pro Quad with a 24" Apple Display is £2533.99, you could quite easily sell the iMac after a year and a half and buy a brand new model with a better display and better graphics and end up spending the same or less over a 3 year period.
Of course, this will all be a little simpler when the Mac Pros get updated.

 

[Dr.Pants]

Of course, this will all be a little simpler when the Mac Pros get updated.

I agree, right now its really convoluted - I think the Mac Pro will come back to the surface once it gets Gulftown and the tower gets a load more processing power.

That would be the day.

Personally, I think that a lot of development work trickles down from optimisations made for the Pro line. For instance, Apple needs to optimise for hyperthreading since that's the direction Intel's going. For a time the Intel's only large-power option was the "i7" product line, which hyperthreads; note also that development on Core2Quad ceased after the i7 was released.

Not to mention that Apple would lose quite a few of their few corporate sponsors that have needs for on-board RAID arrays. Furthermore the MacPro might take second fiddle to the XServe which, in a corporate environment where NO MacPro exists, rendering machines would still have to take jobs. Apple does have some creative companies with large budgets behind them.

Apple just put out the Mini Server which not only goes for home NAS but also for web devs who like second machines for web-page-testing. IF Apple's going to cater to that small of a contingent, then they certainly are going to keep their Pro line.

Just my two cents.

I'm tempted to sell my 2008/2.8 Octo for an upgraded 27" iMac now. Bah.

Something says that line should've ended in [/sarcasm] for everybody here that didn't get it.

 

[Umbongo]

In PC World, Xeon uses the same LGA1366 platform as i7 9xx series (i7 8xx uses LGA1156 which is a cheaper yet not worse version). In PC World, I can take out Xeon and plug in top of the line i7 975 Extream CPU and double the performance. Can it be done in Mac Pro world? Not as a standard Apple supported option of course, but let's say a couple of years from now when I am out of warranty and when 975s are cheaper. Would it work or I am going to be limited to whatever Apple puts inside the case?

The Core i7 960 is out now which is 3.2GHz, and the Xeon version should follow shortly. They are now the midrange $550-$600 processor (formerly 2.93GHz and then 3.06GHz) and this would be a better upgrade than Apple's own 2.93GHz option. You can also check constantly to try and get a 2.66GHz refurb saving another couple of hundred dollars. Obviously the warranty issue is concern, but you don't have to sell the processor you get with it if it worries you so. If she is going to be hammering the system with rendering then get the Mac Pro.

 

[rtrt]

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[rtrt]

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[Eidorian]

That would be the day.

They make about a $1,000 a pop on each single socket Mac Pro and there isn't even a display. It's pretty much funding the lower margins on the iMacs now.

The Mac Pro does have expansion but guess what happened to the single processor Power Mac G5 1.8 GHz when the iMac G5 ALS 2.0 GHz came out? Oops!

The Core i5 750 offers 90% of the performance of the Core i7 920. The Core i7 860 is faster.

There are plenty of cheaper options if you want a smaller display but Apple is really trying to get you to buy that 27" iMac. Replace your TV, something!

 

[Bubba Satori]

It'll be a little while until the 30" is replaced yet. At the earliest I'd expect it with the next Mac Pro refresh which, at a guess will be early 2010.

By that time everybody will have bought HP, Dell, Hanns, Samsung, NEC and Eizo monitors. I wonder how many hundreds of millions of dollars Apple has lost in ACD sales because of their failure to update the ACDs and carry a full range of sizes and types ?

Simply answer please. Let's keep it flame free.

Why has a company the size of Apple so completely neglected the second most important part of a "professional" computer over the last three years? I just don't get it. 😕

 

[Eidorian]

Why has a company the size of Apple so completely neglected the second most important part of a "professional" computer over the last three years? I just don't get it. 😕

Because we enable them to get away with it? 🙄

 

[rtrt]

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[Bubba Satori]

well i'd go with the 'being a supplier of professional computer hardware is pretty low on the apple agenda' argument.

How about this for an Apple priority list based on sales and profitability driving share price and shareholder value;

1. iphone
2. ipod
3. laptop - pro and consumer - i dont think pro laptops are restricted to professionals judging by people i know
4. desktop - consumer
5. desktop - pro

haven't checked relative sales numbers - don't think apple breaks them out anyway - iphone, ipod, laptop and desktop numbers only. My opinion only and i think you could probably debate the order of the 1st 3........

That makes as much sense as any other explanatation. Doesn't bode well for desktop users. Fewer and fewer models, monitors, vid cards, hard drives and optical drive choices.

I'm happy for AppleT&T's success.

But I sure do miss Apple Computer. 🙁

 

[dsiew81]

By that time everybody will have bought HP, Dell, Hanns, Samsung, NEC and Eizo monitors. I wonder how many hundreds of millions of dollars Apple has lost in ACD sales because of their failure to update the ACDs and carry a full range of sizes and types ?

Simply answer please. Let's keep it flame free.

Why has a company the size of Apple so completely neglected the second most important part of a "professional" computer over the last three years? I just don't get it. 😕

Riiiiight. Your ACDs have suddenly become crap because other companies have released a newer product. Comparing Apple's business practices versus a company like Eizo is pretty pointless. Quality over quantity.

Like rtrt said, it is simply not as important as their other better-selling products. How many people who buy a Mac also want to buy one of their monitors? A lot of people already scoff at the prices for Macs, let alone their monitors. The majority of people will buy a Mac with a screen which is fine for their purpose. Yes people buy MP and MM, but then no-one's forcing them to buy ACDs either. Compare that with how many people have an iPhone/iPod.

Because we enable them to get away with it? 🙄

Wow. What a thoughtful response.

 

[Eidorian]

Wow. What a thoughtful response.

It is isn't?

There are so many things we're willing to go head over heels for Apple. I just wonder how long they can keep the free pass to do what they want.

 

[rtrt]

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[thermodynamic]

I just priced up a quad 27inch iMac (i7) 2.8GHz with 8GB or RAM and Applecare versus a quad 2.93GHz Mac Pro with 24inch display etc.

iMac : £2,055
Mac Pro : £3,609

The specs are very close, the Mac Pro is slightly faster and has ECC memory and is more expandable but has a smaller display.

I guess Apple might drop the quad Pro if they don't reprice it.

Not quite. Doesn't that iMac still use notebook-grade components, to cut down on heat?

Even so, the Xeon still has memory bandwidth improvements over the i7.

Still, this quad iMac is impressive, period. The built-in 27" IPS panel (source: Apple's web site) is a killer feature.

Expect Apple's profits to skyrocket next quarter, methinks...

I still have no qualms with my Mac Pro... internal hard drives are far faster in transfer speeds than firewire (no comment for USB)... 🙂

 

[Eidorian]

Not quite. Doesn't that iMac still use notebook-grade components, to cut down on heat?

Only the Core i5 and i7 models are Lynnfield. Otherwise it's the standard E83x5 line on the 21.5" like it has been for ages.

Even so, the Xeon still has memory bandwidth improvements over the i7.

Bloomfield's memory bandwidth advantage doesn't matter on a single socket.

 

[rtrt]

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[azentropy]

I thought the Quad MP was at least $500 too high in the first place, now it looks even looks worse. But unfortunately if you want an expandable system with flexibility (like not having to live with a reflective display) at the least expensive price point Apple offers, that is it.

 

[dsiew81]

It is isn't?

Actually no, I forgot to include a :facepalm:. Oh well.

 

[eelpout]

I thought the Quad MP was at least $500 too high in the first place, now it looks even looks worse.

They need to drop Mac Pro prices by 20%... today. Primarily on the base model. I imagine they will drop some before the next refresh.

 

[gugucom]

well i'd go with the 'being a supplier of professional computer hardware is pretty low on the apple agenda' argument.

How about this for an Apple priority list based on sales and profitability driving share price and shareholder value;

1. iphone
2. ipod
3. laptop - pro and consumer - i dont think pro laptops are restricted to professionals judging by people i know
4. desktop - consumer
5. desktop - pro

haven't checked relative sales numbers - don't think apple breaks them out anyway - iphone, ipod, laptop and desktop numbers only. My opinion only and i think you could probably debate the order of the 1st 3........

Your list is pretty accurate except for the internet sales of the iTunes and Appstore. That is new business and entices the analysts. Apple will continue to screw us on Blu-Ray and the iPhone devs to maximise their sales there.

Desktop is a shrinking segment and workstations will cost too much development resources for the low number of customers. That doesn't mean Apple will miss any opportunities as the Mac mini server shows. Slap a bit of server software on and sell the thing 30% higher. 😉

 

[Infrared]

well i'd go with the 'being a supplier of professional computer hardware is pretty low on the apple agenda' argument.

Apple is becoming Sony 🙂

 

[macgeek18]

I'm getting a quad iMac.I don't like having the whole seperate monitor tower thing,I use a PowerMac G4 and all the cables irritate me.But Mac Pro's are still sweet and pretty.Don't get me wrong on that.🙂

 

[Techhie]

. That doesn't mean Apple will miss any opportunities as the Mac mini server shows. Slap a bit of server software on and sell the thing 30% higher. 😉

You forgot putting another HDD in and painstakingly applying a sliver of Aluminium in the slot on the front. Well worth the money 🙄

Anyway, all this update goes to show is that Apple ridiculously overpriced the baseline quad MP. Gugucom usually says around this point that Apple is planning on phasing out the MP and this is evidence blah blah 🙂p), but I think that the exclusion of a swappable HDD bay in the iMac when it would have been obviously easy to include shows that Apple is still considering the Pro desktop market. That being said, overlapping the two lines this way makes it almost certain to me that there will be no other choice than to bump octad (maybe 6-12 core?) to standard on the Gulftown MP to prevent cannibalistic sales.

 

[VirtualRain]

Apple is becoming Sony 🙂

Indeed.

That being said, overlapping the two lines this way makes it almost certain to me that there will be no other choice than to bump octad (maybe 6-12 core?) to standard on the Gulftown MP to prevent cannibalistic sales.

Agreed, but the number of apps that can really leverage 12 cores (24 threads) at a balls out 2.4-3GHz has got to be few and far between. How many will they sell outside of rendering studios... 100? 200? I mean seriously the market has to be miniscule. 🙁

 

[kevink2]

Especially with the economy difference now versus 1 1/2 years ago, I think that if I didn't have my Mac Pro already, and I was buying now, I would get the current 27" iMac at about $2400 over the 8 core Pro I bought in 2008 at $3100 (no monitor).

It has 1/2 the cores, but twice the RAM than the one I bought (though I have upgraded it since). It doesn't have quite the longevity as a primary computer because of less expansion capabilities and only 4 cores, but it just means I buy a new computer a year earlier. And it still makes a nice form factor that, if I hand it off to some family member, it should still make a nice system in 3 or 4 years.