Quadra 700

Discussion in 'Apple Collectors' started by bunnspecial, Nov 19, 2014.

  1. bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    #1
    I mentioned this in the PowerPC forum, but thought I'd post it here also.

    This one should be coming home with me tomorrow. I was supposed to get it today, but left it locked up next to the freight elevator in the building, and the guy with keys both to that room and the elevator had to leave before I had a chance to get it.

    In any case, I was able to remove the computer from its original installation-or at least where it has been for the last 10+ years. Before I did anything else, I hit the power button on the keyboard and it booted right up to a system 7.5 desktop. It has 20mb of RAM currently. I wasn't able to get any further details on it, but the fact that it booted so well was encouraging. It also came with a 12" Multi-Scan monitor-I don't get too excited about these small displays, but it seemed a natural match for the computer.

    Basically this just seems like a good, solid all around system. Almost every port on the back was populated-it had an Appletalk box that was connected to the G3 on the desk next to it, as well as a cable running into the wall and going to who knows where, a SCSI ZIP drive, an AAUI to 10-base-T bridge, and an Extended Keyboard II. The AEKII is my favorite Apple keyboard design of all time, so I'm happy to get another one.

    By the way, most of the references I find mention that it uses 30 pin SIMMS. Are these the same memory sticks that I used "back in the day" in my 386 and 486 systems? I'm assuming that with 20mb of RAM, it has 4x4mb(plus 4 on the board?). 16mb sticks are a bit pricey($15-20 each from what I'm seeing on Ebay) so I'm wondering if I can "mix and match" and just stick one or two 16mb modules in.

    This will be my second 68K system, and my first "high end" one, so I'm excited about getting it.

    Sorry for the not so great picture, but here it is packed and ready to go, along with the G3 desktop that's also coming home with me.
     

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  2. MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

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    #2
    The Quadra700 has to be my favourite 68K Mac. No leaky caps on the motherboard since Apple used solid Tantalums instead. That takes care of a very common failure point on old machines, and the power supplies were fairly reliable in their day too.

    The Quadra700 has 4MB RAM soldered to the motherboard. Takes 30pin SIMMs 80nano seconds or faster (lower number is faster), same as PC 30pin but don't require/use parity - so 8 chip SIMMs are fine.

    Total configurations are:

    8M ----- 4x 1MB

    12MB ---- 4x 2MB

    20MB ---- 4x 4MB

    36MB ---- 4x 8MB

    68MB ---- 4x 16MB

    Sadly, it's 4 SIMMs at a time (all the same size). If you put in 2 x 2MB and 2 x 4MB the 4MB SIMMs will be seen as the lowest size (2MB). This can be a trap if your SIMMs aren't labeled. I used to keep an LC handy for identifying SIMM sizes.

    The only drawback is the on-board video. With 6x 256K Video RAM SIMMs you'll only get 24bit color (Millions of Colors) up to 832x624 resolution. These are 68pin SIMMs. They came in 256K & 512K but the Q700 only sees the 512Ks as 256K.
     
  3. bunnspecial thread starter macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    #3
    Thanks for the good info.

    I got to bring it(and the G3) home today. The G3 hasn't made it out of the car yet, but I did get the Quadra in and cleaned it up. The vents in our building are full of black "crap" and this computer had no shortage of it.

    As I mentioned, it has 20mb of RAM and works great. There's no extra VRAM installed-I'll have to see if I can track some of that down, and maybe some 16mb SIMMs(although I'm not sure if I would do anything that would benefit from having 68mb of RAM).

    I love the start-up chime on this, too.
     

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  4. MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

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    #4
  5. bunnspecial thread starter macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    #5
    Thanks again.

    Unfortunately, the 12" Multiscan monitor decided to die while I was playing with the computer last night(I have a bad track record with these things). I have another little 12" monitor, but for the time being hooked it up to 15" LCD via an adapter. Between the resolution and color limitations, it looks like crap on this display.

    I've been watching NuBus video cards on Ebay. It would be nice if I could find something that would give me millions of colors at 1240x768, but then I realize that might be asking too much.

    I'm also keeping my eyes open for a PowerPC card, as I think that would make an interesting addition. From what I've seen, they don't seem to bring huge amounts of money when they come up for sale on Ebay.
     
  6. MacTech68, Nov 22, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2014

    MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

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    #6
    You might want to try that 16" multiscan that's pictured next to the G3 Desktop. I'm pretty sure it should work. And being a CRT, the picture should be sharper than an LCD at lower resolutions.

    Also, the NuBus video cards don't offer much better unless you can find an Apple NuBus Graphics card 24AC similar to the Radius PrecisionColor Pro 24AC card. These will do up to 1152 x 870 at 24bit color (Millions of colors). Most of the older Apple cards are pretty much have the same roadblock as the on-board video. The ROM on these needs to be updated to be reliable with anything later than MacOS 7.5.2.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nubus_graphics_card.jpg
     
  7. bunnspecial thread starter macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    #7
    Thanks-I actually only managed to get it out of the car yesterday so I'll hook it up and try it.
     
  8. bunnspecial thread starter macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    #8
    I'm happy to report some progress on this.

    I was able to do a little bit of horse trading with a member here, who sent me a Radius Precision 24X and 24XP card(along with a drive bezel for one of my B&W G3s) in exchange for some MDD G4 parts.

    In any case, I installed the XP, and with the 16" Multiscan connected was able to get millions of colors at 1024x768 and 75hz. It would actually output 1152x870(as Mactech68 said above), but the monitor didn't seem to like resolution.

    The 16" may stay with this computer for the time being. I've already put a PCI Rage 128 in the G3 so am good to go on it with a reasonably sized LCD.
     
  9. MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

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    #9
    Cool - now to get photoshop 3.5.. just kidding, but hard to believe that's what was used back then. :)
     
  10. orestes1984, Dec 2, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2014

    orestes1984 macrumors 65816

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    #10
    There was one other option that would provide the best possible Nubus option and that's the Mac Picasso made by VillageTronic. It came with a range of 2D and 3D options and at one point with the Mac Picasso 540 you could plug in a dual-3DFX 3D chipset directly into the card using SLI for greater RAM capacities again and also intensive 3D work. With the 3DFX module installed you could have a total of a mindblowing for the time, 8mb of video RAM.

    Rare as rocking horse poop but it's the best card you can get in a nubus Mac. The PDF manual for it is still available via VillageTronic's website.

    Unfortunately like other options your limited to 1152x870 in 24bit colour, but the Mac Picasso 540 will do it at 96hz, for flicker free display on older CRTS. The plus side of the Mac Picasso is that it has a VGA out for connecting it directly to modern LCDs, although you wont want to go much bigger than 15" given the resolution limitation for 24bit colour.

    The most commonly available model is the Mac Picasso 340 which will give you millions of colours at 1152 x 870 at either 66 or 75 Hz again with both Apple monitor outputs and VGA unlike the 540 it doesn't support multiple monitors plugged in to the card at the same time.

    http://lowendmac.com/video/macpicasso340.html

    As with all of these cards, you wont get the built in display software that comes with Apple Monitors for calibration and etc, if you're plugging in via VGA.
     
  11. dermeister macrumors 6502

    dermeister

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    #11
    I used $9.29 OWC sticks in my Q900: http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/30PS16MB/

    I'd say order up the max amount your Q700 can take and load that baby up!

    ----------

    I have a Radius PrecisionColor Pro 24AC coming in (ordered from eBay). Do I need to flash the rom, and if so, can you give me any pointers or a link?

    Thanks!
     
  12. MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

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    #12
    You can't flash it, it's a physical chip-swap and IIRC, the ROM is socketed.

    Hoping it's the later ROM. :eek:
     
  13. dermeister macrumors 6502

    dermeister

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    #13
    :eek:

    Here is the auction: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/141403735052

    Any idea if I screwed up? :(
     
  14. MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

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    #14
    Hard to say - If it's a stock photo. If it's the actual photo then it's the Apple version of the card with a v2.0 ROM

    Further searching shows that the v1.0 ROM was only supplied on an Apple prototype card.

    You should be fine, but all my old docs aren't accessible just now.
     
  15. dermeister macrumors 6502

    dermeister

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    #15
    Actually, every picture of the Apple version I can find has the card using a red PCB.
     
  16. MacTech68, Dec 3, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2014

    MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

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    #16
    The green one pictured in the auction with a v2.0 ROM seems to have been manufactured approximately week 31 of 1995.

    Most of the red coloured ones I've seen with v1.1 ROM are circa 1993.

    It's possible that the Radius cards were red PCBs and when Radius stopped making the PCB, Apple continued to make them themselves but in green.

    EDIT: It also seems that by early 1994 they were still red and shipped with a v1.6 ROM - late 1994 were still red and shipped with a v2.0 ROM. I'm blown away by the original retail price of these. Just over US$1500 !!

    EDIT2: I've even found a v2.0 ROM on a 24XP that is blue. http://www.oocities.org/red_quadra/nubus/precision_pro.html
     
  17. bunnspecial thread starter macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    #17
    FWIW, here's the one sent to me by a forum member-a red PCB and V2.0 ROM.

    Also pictured is my Q700 powered up with the card installed(and driving the display). I actually ended up dropping the resolution down to 640x480, as I found higher resolutions to be uncomfortable to read on the CRT.
     

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  18. dermeister macrumors 6502

    dermeister

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    #18
    Yeah and that's in 1991-94 dollars too, which is worth like 2.5x today's dollars.

    I'm thinking the Apple ones had exotic colours (Red, Blue) and the Radius ones were plain green.

    ----------

    It's an awkward resolution too - 1152x870 (I remember that resolution, it's just awkward because I don't think LCDs like it these days).

    I want the Apple Macintosh 21" Colour Display for the Q900 because it was released alongside it in Oct 91. Just have to find one...

    What is the size of the CRT that made you go 640x480?
     
  19. MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

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    #19
    I find it odd that all seem to have Apple assembly numbers on them - the 63x-xxxx number. Also, the statement that Apple makes that the v1.0 ROM was only a development version and can be sent back for an upgrade, would seem to indicate that the cards were designed by Apple all along and Radius bought a license to sell them. Or, Apple handed manufacturing to Radius but bought the finished product to sell thru Apple retail channels, hence all the early ones being red, and when that agreement expired, Apple made their own green ones.
     
  20. DZ/015 macrumors 6502a

    DZ/015

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    #20
    Enjoy the 24x and xp! I'm pretty sure they are the pro versions of the cards. I have found that going above 640x480 with system 7 is hard on my eyes also. Try the RadiusWare control panel. It will give you more info and options for using the card.

    The Radius cards were available in red, green, and blue. I don't remember the exact difference accounted for by the color, but I vaguely remember that there was one.

    The company was founded by some of the original Macintosh team members, so the similarity to Apple products is most likely tied in with this.
     
  21. bunnspecial thread starter macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    #21
    I think the floppy drive on the Quadra needs a rebuild, and I need to get at least one of my beige G3s going so that I can make floppies and install the software on the Quadra. Thank you for the links, though-I'll try to get all of that done this coming week and hopefully will get things working better.

    Once my 80-pin to 50-pin SCSI adapters show up from China, I'm probably going to try and replace the 160gb hard drive with one of the 9gb HDDs that I now have a big stash of(I was given another half dozen yesterday to bring my total up to 18). Once that's done, I may try installing OS 8 on it, although I'll need to either track down an external SCSI CD-ROMdrive(my preferred option since my SE also doesn't have a CD-ROM) or borrow an internal one out of my 8500 or 7100 long enough to install OS 8.
     
  22. dermeister macrumors 6502

    dermeister

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    #22
    I got my card, and installed Quick Color. Two issues:

    1) I am using a DB-15 to VGA cable going to my LCD screen, and the picture is hued blue... So something is wrong. Actually it does that even from the on-board video, so I think that cable is the issue. Anybody ever had that happen or know if it's fixable?
    2) The Monitors and Sound control panel and the Control Strip only let me select 1152x870 on the Radius card, and not 1024x768. The control panel just shows 1152 as the single selection under "Recommended", and there are no other options.
     
  23. MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

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    #23
    If you click on "Recommended" there is no "All" ?

    What kind of Mac to VGA adapter is it? If it has switches, you should try it on a 16" or 17" Multiscan setting.

    If your adapter has settings for "Sync on Green" try it both ways and see if that makes a difference to your color hue. You might also want to check if the LCD has any "Sync on Green" or "Composite Sync" options.

    IMPORTANT NOTE.

    You can't make changes on the fly with older Mac video cards and on board video. When the Mac is first turned on (or re-booted) it checks to see what model of monitor is connected. Your Mac to VGA adapter needs to be connected and SET BEFORE you power-on or restart, and any changes to the switches on the adapter will require a restart to take effect.
     
  24. dermeister macrumors 6502

    dermeister

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    #24
    Exactly, the pullmenu doesn't have any option other than Recommended, which is odd. No All.

    It's a DB-15 - VGA cable with no markings... Looks Apple made actually. It doesn't have any settings or switches. I'm starting to wonder if it's for a specific model or for greyscale or something...
     
  25. MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

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    #25
    Does it have a 590-xxxx number embossed on it?
     

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