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Qualcomm Hints at Apple's Switch to Intel for LTE Modems in iPhone 7
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I'm not hearing any rumors, just basing it on their lackluster release schedule with their processors. And no, I am not talking about their switch to tick tock tock...
Apple will use Intel modem to have multi-sourced components. There is no delay if Apple can add modem on AX processor die and TSMC fabricate. Moreover, we average commentators here have no clue of what is going on in industry between giant's like Intel and Apple. Intel produces largest semiconductors in world and fairly complex design in timely manner. Lately delays in tick-tok processor technology offering is based on adopting where PC market is going and processing demand than intel's ability to produce any complex chip in timely manner.
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What do you find odd? LTE modems are peripheral -- literally peripheral -- to Intel's core business. PC sales have been slumping for six consecutive quarters, and AAPL's highly-capable iOS processors threaten to replace Intel processors on at least part of the Mac product line. CPUs are shifting from a featured to a commodity market, and Intel it taking the brunt of that shift.
Now: why do you think Intel's layoff has anything to do with this news story? Why do you find it odd?
Apple cares more about real-world performance than specs. Whats the point of having 1GB speed to your phone when nothing can keep up with it?
"Dude, I can do 1GB/sec to my iPhone!"
"But you only have 16GB of storage!"
"..."
It doesn't take 1000 people to develop most chips.
WTF, the analysis are stupid and have no clue about chip development.
WTF, the analysis are stupid and have no clue about chip development.
Which leaves Intel with about 110,000 employees. Hardly enough people to make the chip.
The first commenter is being hysterical, but not necessarily wrong.
Charlie's not optimistic about the progress of this LTE modem, with a report just yesterday.
http://semiaccurate.com/2016/04/20/intel-delays-yet-another-lte-product/
My guess is that there are multiple moving parts to this deal; that initially Apple gets to use Intel's modem as an external chip (likely a worse choice overall than QC) BUT that the payoff is Intel gives them an IP license to include the modem on later Apple SoCs.
The details of the deal matter because they determine how much flexibility Apple has if Intel can't deliver. In particular, for example, if Intel can't get something working well enough soon, presumably Apple has the right to say "nice try, come back when you know what you're doing" and revert to QC in time to make the September iPhone launch.
Modems in high end smartphones these days are significantly faster than what you can actually get on mobile networks these days so it doesn't really make a difference in performance. Sure, the faster cellular modem is more future proof, but most people will have upgraded long before networks catch up.
That makes sense. I think Intel may be shooting themselves in the foot here though. I remember reading a while back that a whole division of Apple's in house chip team (which is substantial) is looking into developing their own modem to integrate. If so, Intel better not be viewing this as a long term relationship....
Don't forget the efficiency that comes with newer baseband chipsets. Not only that they will be more power efficient, but they will get you on and off the network quicker, conserving the resource blocks on the operator side, and of course the battery life on the user device.
Then with 4 Rx chain setup that Qualcomm X12 and X16 baseband processors are capable of, even if the operator doesn't have 4x4 MIMO commercially rolled out device can benefit from diversity (2x4) improving the robustness, throughput under suboptimal RF conditions, and of course voice performance over LTE.
Furthermore, when it comes to Wi-Fi Calling, unlike Intel and existing modems which only monitor RSSI, X12 (and X16) modem algorithm monitors other very important KPIs like reported interference, packet jitter and backhaul (captive AP), which improves the handoff from VoLTE <-> VoWiFi and overall experience.
So it's not only about the peak theoretical data rates, it's very much about the end user experience.
That might not be bad if IP7 was delayed until February. Hell, they could have OLED screens delivered by then...
My Apple shares wouldn't fair so well with the delay. It does seem like a delay could be possible...
Looks like you have me beat on overall knowledge of this subject so I'll concede that you are correct that there are other advantages to newer modems. My argument basically is that most users won't notice the difference between a Cat 10 and Cat 12 modem since they won't be hitting peak data rates of either of those anyway.
This is a common misconception. This is not about peak rates at all. Rather, the new bundle of technologies that enable the faster peak rates enable faster real-world rates as well.
The best way to think about it is in terms of relative gains. For example, from Cat 10 to Cat 12, the peak download speed increases from 450 Mbps to 600 Mbps. That's a 33% gain. And compared to Cat 6 - which was pretty much standard on 2015 flagships - it's 300 Mbps vs. 600 Mbps, a 100% gain.
Now, if you are experiencing real-world download speeds of, say, 60 Mbps with a Cat 6-capable phone, your real-world download speeds could improve up to 120 Mbps with a Cat 12 phone.
Is there anyone in the world experiencing this today? You bet - for example, Telstra in Australia has 600 Mbps service live at this very moment. And here's real data from a test run by Signals Research Group on that network, using the Qualcomm Snapdragon X12 LTE modem (equivalent generation of the XMM7360, though it's capable of 600 Mbps while XMM7360 is only capable of 450 Mbps):
Full report here.
But it goes beyond the user's experience on their phones. Even other phones on the network who don't have this advanced capability benefit when some users migrate to the more advanced LTE categories. That's because those users download their content faster, freeing up network resources for others. So the overall average real-world experience of users with older devices on the network also improve.
Hope this helps. Let me know if I can answer any questions.
Yes, good point. A modem must literally be a rounding error for a company as huge as Intel, even if it's for the iPhone
This is a common misconception. This is not about peak rates at all. Rather, the new bundle of technologies that enable the faster peak rates enable faster real-world rates as well.
The best way to think about it is in terms of relative gains. For example, from Cat 10 to Cat 12, the peak download speed increases from 450 Mbps to 600 Mbps. That's a 33% gain. And compared to Cat 6 - which was pretty much standard on 2015 flagships - it's 300 Mbps vs. 600 Mbps, a 100% gain.
Now, if you are experiencing real-world download speeds of, say, 60 Mbps with a Cat 6-capable phone, your real-world download speeds could improve up to 120 Mbps with a Cat 12 phone.
Is there anyone in the world experiencing this today? You bet - for example, Telstra in Australia has 600 Mbps service live at this very moment. And here's real data from a test run by Signals Research Group on that network, using the Qualcomm Snapdragon X12 LTE modem (equivalent generation of the XMM7360, though it's capable of 600 Mbps while XMM7360 is only capable of 450 Mbps):
Full report here.
But it goes beyond the user's experience on their phones. Even other phones on the network who don't have this advanced capability benefit when some users migrate to the more advanced LTE categories. That's because those users download their content faster, freeing up network resources for others. So the overall average real-world experience of users with older devices on the network also improve.
Hope this helps. Let me know if I can answer any questions.
Hmmm, interesting. I always figured that since I usually top out around 25 Mbps over LTE here in Calgary (Telus) on an iPhone 6s that I had room to grow and that was basically the limits of the current cellular network (LTE Advanced only really started to roll out here in the last year). Are you saying that switching to a phone with a Cat 9 or 10 modem I can expect 50% higher download speeds immediately?
Either way 25 Mbps seems plenty fast for what I use my phone for so I'm not overly concerned (and I'll probably be holding onto this phone for at least another 18 months), it's just interesting...
No, sorry that's not what I said. Both ends of the wireless connection have to have matching capabilities in order for you to enjoy the faster speeds.
I'm guessing that would be 2017 September's launch, not this year (for an integrated Intel IP modem).
Cause I'm pretty sure Apple has already all its ducks lined up for this year already.
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Faster modem is as much about lower power usage (rests more often) than speed.
Setting up the connection is also faster, which helps.
You're occupying the network infrastructure less time, so you can have more people on it. That's especially the case these days as speed has immensely outstripped data plan increases.
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So again, back to my original point... The cellular networks in most places (as you mentioned Telstra in Australia aside) aren't even close to matching a Cat 6 modem's capabilities so is there any advantage to upgrading to Cat 12 other than being future proof?
Actually, there are over 100 networks worldwide now that support Cat 6 speeds. For example, all the Canadian operators support Cat 6 or better. Bell Mobility for example now supports up to Cat 9.
Just to give you an idea of the pace of progress, in January 2015 there were only 20 networks worldwide that supported Cat 6 speeds. By January 2016, that number grew 5x. And now you see Cat 9 and Cat 12 networks start popping up. By next year, Cat 9 will be the baseline and there will be several operators at Cat 12 or even Cat 16 - which is 1 Gbps.
More stats on LTE networks deployments and speeds: http://gsacom.com/download.php?id=2698
What is a lifecycle of a smartphone? Some say it's extending now beyond 24 months. If you bought a phone 2 years ago, then at this moment, you would be stuck with LTE that's half the speed. Same thing if you buy a phone in late 2016 - do you want to miss out on the network upgrades in 2017 and 2018? Especially if you're paying for a premium tier smartphone?