Qualcomm Says Its Innovations Are At the Heart of Every iPhone as Battle With Apple Intensifies

[syndalis]

Qualcomm had nothing to do with creating the revolutionary Touch ID, the world's most popular camera, or the Retina display Apple's customers love

To be fair Apple only created the Touch ID (through an acquired company), the camera and LCD are basically off the shelf and not even top of the line off the shelf.

Well, at least regarding the camera, the software they have running behind the parts is pretty novel and one of the reasons you pick an iPhone over an android device.

The camera just works, is lightning fast, and generally makes good decisions when you take a pic off the cuff. Apple did that.

edit: also, the stuff they are doing with two lenses to pull off smarter zoom photography without a real telephoto lens, depth of field, 3D for better AR applications... apple innovates like crazy in the space, even if their actual lenses and sensors are "off the shelf"

edit edit: and if they got touch ID behind the display that is a massive, innovative game changer.

 

[techwhiz]

So basically they made a processor and are taking the praise for Apple's software running on it.

I suppose we'd better thank Intel for all the amazing things Final Cut Pro and XCode can do..

Wrong. Without the algorithms running in and on the Qualcomm chips you couldn't even connect to a cell tower, let alone to hand off between them. Let's see Apple build a phone and do all their own innovation. No outside chips....
I'll wait the 20 or so years while they spend a couple of hundred billion on R&D and develop new ways around the existing patents.

The argument you make is specious at best.
Here is an article https://www.greyb.com/starpatents-in-qualcomm-patent-portfolio/ about Qualcomm and it's patens and why they are valuable.

Apple wants to claim that Qualcomm has trivial patents and argues some are even worthless.
Hardware engineers know better and this is the bean counters and lawyers.
Veterbi was brilliant and made cell phone technology possible.

BTW - I'm not an Apple hater. I own and have owned Apple stock for almost two decades.
I'm a hardware engineer and know the value of technology.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

NO PHONE is worth $1000 to ChrisCW11, period

Fixed that for you.

 

[techwhiz]

Apple likely sat on this while QCOM has been the sole source for cellular modems. Now that AAPL sources modems from INTC, it has some leverage. The question is if this is an indication AAPL will sole source modems from INTC for future products, including CDMA modems. Even if the QCOM modems have 1% better LTE performance, who give a **** since the INTC modems are capable of 1 Gbps and the carriers can't support it yet anyway.

The 7560 supports LTE, GSM, CDMA, and TD-SCDMA (China) in one package. This allows AAPL to have a single SKU world wide, including China. This coupled with eSIM would significantly reduce manufacturing, distribution, and inventory complexity.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/wireless-products/mobile-communications/xmm-7560-brief.html


View attachment 705033

Time to short QCOM and buy INTC!

Intel can't build modems without paying Qualcomm.
[doublepost=1498058824][/doublepost]

Qualcomm had nothing to do with creating the revolutionary Touch ID, the world's most popular camera, or the Retina display Apple's customers love

To be fair Apple only created the Touch ID (through an acquired company), the camera and LCD are basically off the shelf and not even top of the line off the shelf.

Apple doesn't make touch sensors. They didn't invent the technology.

 

[TurboPGT!]

Gonna be fun to see how this works out.

Gets popcorn.....

There will be a boring settlement.

 

[thasan]

Wrong. Without the algorithms running in and on the Qualcomm chips you couldn't even connect to a cell tower, let alone to hand off between them. Let's see Apple build a phone and do all their own innovation. No outside chips....
I'll wait the 20 or so years while they spend a couple of hundred billion on R&D and develop new ways around the existing patents.

The argument you make is specious at best.
Here is an article https://www.greyb.com/starpatents-in-qualcomm-patent-portfolio/ about Qualcomm and it's patens and why they are valuable.

Apple wants to claim that Qualcomm has trivial patents and argues some are even worthless.
Hardware engineers know better and this is the bean counters and lawyers.
Veterbi was brilliant and made cell phone technology possible.

BTW - I'm not an Apple hater. I own and have owned Apple stock for almost two decades.
I'm a hardware engineer and know the value of technology.

an innocent question. does ARM gets its fees from aapl and most of the other phones like this?
a license from the phone maker and then a royalty from whomever fabricates the chip?
plus, one of them is based on the % of the value of the phone itself?

 

[Jakexb]

Hope they enjoy never getting another contract from Apple ever again

 

[Col4bin]

Gloves have come off, wow. Kind of a bummer considering I have the Intel chip in my iP7 Plus on AT&T's network.

 

[Michael Goff]

You know, Qualcomm is really innovative. They're ahead of everyone in the ability to pretend they do everything.

 

[grkm3]

Qualcomm is spending billions of 5g technology right now and if I were them I would not let apple use any of it.

Apple is such a big fing hypocrite.they are trying to not pay for technology that Qualcomm spent billions on.

Oh and for the people saying apple will just go Intel thats fine ...do you think Qualcomm gives it's tech to Intel for free?

Here is what Qualcomm is working on right now and apple don't want to pay for there r&d

 

[LordVic]

Wait. So this whole thing biols down to Qualcomm being butthurt that Apple simple stated that for the purpose of their implementation in the iPhone that there's no discernible difference? Sound like all Apple did was try to head off people pestering stores to hunt for specific modems when in real world usage you'd never see more than a marginal (if that) advantage for one over the other. Qualcomm then takes that as an insult? How ****ing childish.

I think it's more that they're butthurt that Apple is claiming that because there's no "discernable differences" in performance, they believe the fees that QCom are charging are "unreasonable" and have therefore withheld paying all license fees.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/aarontilley/2017/04/28/apple-withholding-qualcomm-royalty/#2acadd597acf

Apple is reported to owe QUalcomm royalty fees of nearly 1 billion. Apple is witholding and. When you're revenue expects income of 1 billion and you don't get it, it grossly affects the bottom line.

That is why Qualcomm is pissed. its all about the money.

The question that the courts will have to determine is, does Qualcomm's royalty plan violate frand or not. (I dont know enough to make this judgement). if QC's fee structure doesn't violate the FRAND terms, than Apple will end up having to pay the royalties, or potentially receive an injunction banning the sale of any Apple device using QC's technologies.

the minutai details of this case are fundamentally different than that of Apple v Samsung, but there are similarities in behaviour. Like the Apple v Samsung battle, Apple there claimed that due to using their technologies, Samsung should owe Apple a percentage of the total value of the phone. Similar to what QC is asking of Apple. And if QC's FRAN charges are the same percentages accross all their clients, than Apple is asking for special treatment outside of FRAND for discounts, and is witholding nearly a billion to get it (which sounds like extortion)

Either way. This is going to get nasty. there's too much money riding on the line for either company to just "walk away"

 

[mikecorp]

who gives a **** i'm expecting iphone 8 se format. If not you can all stick it up to. how come dollar sign and hit is a bad word?

 

[The Cappy]

It's not that they don't have some innovations that deserve remuneration — it's that Qualcomm doesn't deserve to be paid for innovations they aren't responsible for.

 

[d5aqoëp]

This is the only best outcome which can come out.

1. Qualcomm must be ordered to re-work their agreement and get paid ONLY for the modem part or whatever part their patents cover.
2. Apple must drop their 1 billion dollar lawsuit and forgo that amount for getting new licensing deal.

Any other outcomes will cause problems for both the parties concerned.
A compromise would be the best as we don't want to be stuck with Intel 3G/4G modems in our iPhones.

 

[LordVic]

This is the only best outcome which can come out.

1. Qualcomm must be ordered to re-work their agreement and get paid ONLY for the modem part or whatever part their patents cover.
2. Apple must drop their 1 billion dollar lawsuit and forgo that amount for getting new licensing deal.

Any other outcomes will cause problems for both the parties concerned.
A compromise would be the best as we don't want to be stuck with Intel 3G/4G modems in our iPhones.

it would be nastier than that. IIRC, even intel's modem is using Qualcomm patents, so even using Intel's actual modem, Apple would still owe patent royalties to QC.

So unless the courts deem such additional patent royalties to be void, if Apple decides to ignore QC completely, Apple would either need to invent their own complete modem stack/technologies to use on their own proprietary networks, or drop cellular connectivity (which we know is not going to happen).

So rightnow, from my understanding of this. Apple isn't exactly in the strongest position. They're taking a very one sided stand against QC. I think Apple would have a better shot at winnign if they could convince other royalty payers to side with them against QC. But right now IIRC, everyone else is playing by the exact same agreement and rulebook that Apple is playing by.

Apple knows this. Thats why they've witheld all the royalty payments to QC. if QC ever wants to see any of that up to 1 billion in revenues, they must come to the table with Apple. if Apple had paid their royalties up front, then sued asking for rebate, QC would likely ignore them completely since they already have the money.

 

[Thunderhawks]

Can't we just all get along?

Since it's all about $$$:

Apple and its sub contractors will end up paying something in the middle.
Qualcomm will reduce what it wants to get in revenue $$ and switch their charging model
to FRAND.

If they don't Apple will replace them as soon as possible. (Probably anyway)

And everybody will live happily ever after (Especially INTEL)

 

[Michael Goff]

Qualcomm is spending billions of 5g technology right now and if I were them I would not let apple use any of it.

Apple is such a big fing hypocrite.they are trying to not pay for technology that Qualcomm spent billions on.

Oh and for the people saying apple will just go Intel thats fine ...do you think Qualcomm gives it's tech to Intel for free?

Here is what Qualcomm is working on right now and apple don't want to pay for there r&d

They have no legal standing to deny Apple a 5G modem. They’d lose any legal challenge so fast.

Also, you don’t seem to understand the basis of the case. Apple doesn’t think it’s right for Qualcomm to charge them for licensing AND charge the people who create the modems.

 

[kemal]

The FR in FRAND is to safeguard against extortion. Have fun defining Fair and Reasonable.

 

[macTW]

Qualcomm really is making itself look ridiculous here. It doesn't matter if your innovation is the single reason the iPhone is successful. If you signed a deal, you signed a deal.

 

[Michael Goff]

The FR in FRAND is to safeguard against extortion. Have fun defining Fair and Reasonable.

Exactly. The idea of FRAND is that the people who created, or helped create standards, will get paid for it but at the cost of not being able to be outrageous with their patent costs.

 

[macTW]

Apple works zealously to ensure patent law is enforced when it protects their products, but not so much for vendors. No surprise they are self interested, but the current patent system is being shown as just a tool for large entities to bash each other with. It would be in most people's interest to have an open, patent free standard. Qualcomm can suck it.

Or, Apple works zealously on patent law education and knows when it's violated... the more likely source of this.
[doublepost=1498062542][/doublepost]

Qualcomm is spending billions of 5g technology right now and if I were them I would not let apple use any of it.

Apple is such a big fing hypocrite.they are trying to not pay for technology that Qualcomm spent billions on.

Oh and for the people saying apple will just go Intel thats fine ...do you think Qualcomm gives it's tech to Intel for free?

Here is what Qualcomm is working on right now and apple don't want to pay for there r&d

What'd Apple do to you to make you biasly side with Qualcomm in this? Qualcomm is completely wrong and not a person on this forum, let alone in a court, should side with them.

 

[alexgowers]

I find it hard to be on the side of either. A patent system that is broken with fees that are arbitrarily set like a mafia cartel giving out protection fees. Then we have apple trying to pay as little as possible for intellectual property that costs a tiny percentage off each phone that they sell for a huge industry topping markup!

They both show greed and intolerant behaviour with a smattering out double standards. I maintain companies act like they're above the law with everything from TAX to workers rights and apple really is as scummy as the rest no matter how good their products are.

 

[Michael Goff]

Or, Apple works zealously on patent law education and knows when it's violated... the more likely source of this.
[doublepost=1498062542][/doublepost]
What'd Apple do to you to make you biasly side with Qualcomm in this? Qualcomm is completely wrong and not a person on this forum, let alone in a court, should side with them.

Being against Qualcomm in court is one of those things that links Samsung and Apple.

 

[JungeQuex]

Seems like Qualcomm is screwed here.

 

[Kaibelf]

It's the FRAND issues that will bring them back down to reality. They have their own interpretation. Apple will just keep pushing this along until Intel Has their Modems up to speed in 2018. Then cut off QC entirely. It's personal now.

My thoughts exactly. I could only imagine the open letters the late Mr. Jobs would have put out on this one. Cook isn't as vocally aggressive, but he knows how to bleed out a company like QC just as well.