Qualcomm's 3D Sensing Technology Two Years Behind Apple's

[chriscrk]

I’m still not convinced this will replace Touch ID, and I haven’t seen this question asked. How the hells am I supposed to use this feature when it’s pitched black in my room at night?
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Precisely, you nailed it. There are times when Apple is late to the game and they completely wow the world with something that isn’t new, but done over better.

Clearly you haven't been reading the articles. It'll use infrared sensors to scan your face if it's dark.

 

[ke-iron]

Clearly you haven't been reading the articles. It'll use infrared sensors to scan your face if it's dark.

Someone else already explained in detail how it will work. Thanks.

 

[iZac]

It's going to be great. Once we get Face ID, we won't be looking back.

I see what you did there ... Certainly Apple will ask users to scan their entire heads 360 degrees to generate a precise head map

and maybe in this imminent AR future, Apple will simply offer object scanning, so we can elect any thing to unlock the phone instead.

 

[Lloydbm41]

The Note 8 will have 2 X opitical zoom I believe. But I don't buy what an analyst claims, have they seen the new iPhone? No, they have not and have probably never tried the tech they proclaim is inside its face detection. No doubt Apple will ensure whatever it's made works well enough and it will be user friendly, but I take these generations ahead things with a pinch of salt.

Yes, the Note 8 does have 2x optical zoom. Dual cameras and it has an identical bokeh effect that the iPhone 7+ has.

I played around with one today from our Samsung rep. The Note 8 is just an S8+ on steroids. Other than the Spen, you get a near identical experience.

 

[uwdude]

Oh BS. If you think these companies in China don't all know what each other are doing and have samples of each others' work even before wide release, I've got a bridge in Shanghai to sell you, lol. You guys do know that Quo is an analyst who is trying to profit don't you.

 

[Piggie]

By definition, infrared light is invisible to human eye. That's why it's called "Infra" (lower-than) "red". So no it won't be visible to you even in the dark.

You shouldn't think of it in terms of a "night vision camera", it will more than likely won't work like that.

Everything points to the FaceID tech being equivalent to a miniaturized Kinect. Apple bought PrimeSense (makers of the first Xbox Kinect) several years ago, and the HomePod firmware contains references to an IR projector.

The Kinect works by projecting an infrared pattern of seemingly random dots. An infrared camera captures an image of the projected dot pattern, which is deformed by the shape of the object(s) it's projected on. An algorithm then analyzes the deformations vs. the expected pattern and recreates a depth map where each point has a depth value.

So FaceID will likely work by analyzing your face topology, which should work exactly the same in the dark.

I will be interesting to see how much of your face it needs to have a clear shot of to work.
Clothing covering part of your face.
Hair covering part of your face.
Various types of glasses/sun glasses.
Facial jewelry being there or not.

Of course it won't work at all if you have some kind of halloween costume / makeup on.

Going to be interesting to see.

It's got to be both:

Lax enough not to be a pain and keep rejecting things YOU do.
Yet secure enough to not pass someone/something that looks like you.

That's a tricky combination to pull off.

 

[arkitect]

I will be interesting to see how much of your face it needs to have a clear shot of to work.
Clothing covering part of your face.
Hair covering part of your face.
Various types of glasses/sun glasses.
Facial jewelry being there or not.

Of course it won't work at all if you have some kind of halloween costume / makeup on.

Going to be interesting to see.

It's got to be both:

Lax enough not to be a pain and keep rejecting things YOU do.
Yet secure enough to not pass someone/something that looks like you.

That's a tricky combination to pull off.

Yup.
I have always thought Halloween would be the greatest test.

 

[CarpalMac]

Really? You haven't seen that question asked? It's probably the most-asked question about FaceID here on MR.

But to answer your question: infrared. Doesn't matter how pitch black it is, infrared will be able to detect your face. Some smartphones/laptops already have this I believe.

They do indeed, including my Surface Pro 4.

 

[apolloa]

Yes, the Note 8 does have 2x optical zoom. Dual cameras and it has an identical bokeh effect that the iPhone 7+ has.

I played around with one today from our Samsung rep. The Note 8 is just an S8+ on steroids. Other than the Spen, you get a near identical experience.

From the leaks, the Note looks more then ever as a pure consumer as opposed to workers device.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

I’m still not convinced this will replace Touch ID, and I haven’t seen this question asked. How the hells am I supposed to use this feature when it’s pitched black in my room at night?

Try aiming your cell phone camera at your tv remotes lamp and press a button, and marvel at what you can not see with your inferior eyes.

 

[SirErdrick]

I’m still not convinced this will replace Touch ID, and I haven’t seen this question asked. How the hells am I supposed to use this feature when it’s pitched black in my room at night?
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Precisely, you nailed it. There are times when Apple is late to the game and they completely wow the world with something that isn’t new, but done over better.

Motion coprocessor detects you bringing the phone to your line of sight + front facing LED to illuminate your face.

Problem solved?

 

[Lloydbm41]

From the leaks, the Note looks more then ever as a pure consumer as opposed to workers device.

Pretty much. It still has the worker functionality, but it really is just an S8 with a pen. I was not impressed at all.

 

[Hushpuppy!]

I'm sure Samsung is not behind.... they will have it next year although they were first to introduce some type of facial detection anyways.

I still feel Iris scanning is more secure in combo with fingerprint reader.

Samsung implements features that don't work well. They like to say they're first at something but in actuality they just can't get things right from the get go.
Yes they had facial recognition first, however, they themselves acknowledged it's flawed and do not reccomend it as a security feature lol
https://www.forbes.com/sites/amitch...ecognition-security-limitations/#6f1fe8091aff

As for iris recognition...
also flawed and insecure.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ianmor...er-hacked-in-three-simple-steps/#50f24156ccba

 

[Casiotone]

Ah I see. It’s just that my security cameras have these red lights around the bezel that’s visible at night time. The light doesn’t actually shine a beam though, like you said it’s invisible. But looking at the camera you could see the red balls of light around the bezel. I guess I have cheap cameras lol

I guess some infrared LEDs might "leak" visible red light in addition to the infrared spectrum (intentionally or not) so that's why you can see red light in this specific case.

As someone else mentioned, the infrared LEDs on a typical TV remote will not show visible light, though it will be visible on digital cameras.
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I will be interesting to see how much of your face it needs to have a clear shot of to work.
Clothing covering part of your face.
Hair covering part of your face.
Various types of glasses/sun glasses.
Facial jewelry being there or not.

Of course it won't work at all if you have some kind of halloween costume / makeup on.

Going to be interesting to see.

It's got to be both:

Lax enough not to be a pain and keep rejecting things YOU do.
Yet secure enough to not pass someone/something that looks like you.

That's a tricky combination to pull off.

Yeah I'm also curious on how it will handle these cases. Maybe you'll have to train it separately with your face with and without glasses? Not ideal, but most people train at least two fingers for TouchID anyway?

As for Halloween makeup, I think it could still work if FaceID only relies on face topology (depth), since it would have to do this anyway for it to work in the dark.

 

[ke-iron]

I’m still not convinced with this FaceID business. Thought the year I gain and lose weight all the time and I look different, also have different styles of facial hair. To counter this, I hope the face technology will constantly learn your face structure and features, it should see that you’re gaining weight or losing weight in your face and continue to unlock perfectly every time.

 

[Hushpuppy!]

Yes, the Note 8 does have 2x optical zoom. Dual cameras and it has an identical bokeh effect that the iPhone 7+ has.

I played around with one today from our Samsung rep. The Note 8 is just an S8+ on steroids. Other than the Spen, you get a near identical experience.

Bahhahahaha, that's the funniest thing I've heard all day. So what you're saying is that the Note 8 has been able to copy everything that the iPhone 7+ did last year.

 

[Lloydbm41]

Bahhahahaha, that's the funniest thing I've heard all day. So what you're saying is that the Note 8 has been able to copy everything that the iPhone 7+ did last year.

I wouldn't throw rocks in a glass house. You are going to hear plenty of people talking about how the iPhone 8 is copying Samsung. You know, wireless charging, OLED panel, always on display... things Samsung has perfected for years.

 

[rjohnstone]

As for iris recognition...
also flawed and insecure.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ianmor...er-hacked-in-three-simple-steps/#50f24156ccba

This was not a "simple" hack as they claim. Very unrealistic set of circumstances and some specialty are required for it to work.
It requires a high res infrared photo of the victims eyes (hi-res color photos don't work), contact lenses, and of course the victims phone.
Similar to hacking a TouchID sensor, a very highly unlikely set of circumstances and special equipment is required.
http://www.iphonehacks.com/2016/02/iphone-touch-id-hacked-with-play-doh.html
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Bahhahahaha, that's the funniest thing I've heard all day. So what you're saying is that the Note 8 has been able to copy everything that the iPhone 7+ did last year.

No one knows for sure on the Note 8 specs, but the iPhone 7+ does not have OIS on any of the camera lenses.
The Note 8 is supposed to be the first to offer it in a dual camera setup.
We'll see tomorrow if it's true or not.

 

[Nozuka]

Looking forward to Face-ID being fooled by a picture projected on a mannequin...

Doubtful. Similar IR tech is already in use on Laptops/Tablets. Apparently not even twins can fool it.

 

[rjohnstone]

Doubtful. Similar IR tech is already in use on Laptops/Tablets. Apparently not even twins can fool it.

Yep... Windows Hello compatible cameras have a secondary infrared camera that does the face mapping.
Works great in the dark too.
Not horribly slow, but not really that fast either... roughly 2 seconds.
My daughter uses it to log into her Surface.

 

[Ggggggggggg]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, Sony had working products over 6 months ago in this field.
Perhaps Qualcomm are behind, but apple aren't out in front. (Apple never are, they are tech followers these days, copying others with substandard overpriced imitation)

https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/26/sony-to-demo-3d-face-biometric-running-on-xperia-smartphone/

 

[McScooby]

I’m still not convinced with this FaceID business. Thought the year I gain and lose weight all the time and I look different, also have different styles of facial hair. To counter this, I hope the face technology will constantly learn your face structure and features, it should see that you’re gaining weight or losing weight in your face and continue to unlock perfectly every time.

FFS Ke-ron, u on a wind-up, first IR now this?

 

[kdarling]

I’m still not convinced with this FaceID business. Thought the year I gain and lose weight all the time and I look different, also have different styles of facial hair.

The relative position of your eyes, ears, nose, mouth, etc do not change.

Facial hair doesn't matter. Hair hanging across your face could.

As for glasses, many facial systems actually do fine if they're first trained with glasses on. This is known as the super-hero phenomenon, after the observation that comic readers easily recognize a super hero after first seeing their glass wearing civilian disguise

In any case, it's no different than TouchId... you can register more than one "face", and reregister as needed.

 

[ke-iron]

FFS Ke-ron, u on a wind-up, first IR now this?

So you have a problem that I’m not convinced this will replace Touch ID?

 

[Phonephreak]

Motion coprocessor detects you bringing the phone to your line of sight + front facing LED to illuminate your face.

Problem solved?

Not if your gonna get a bright led light in your face every time you unlock your phone.