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Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,205
8,197
You need access points on top of every street light, and that's not going to happen in the suburbs.
Everything that’s required to set up the street lights in the first place seems to be a much more difficult problem than “How do I now add these things to something that’s already stood up”. Plus, if a local municipality or power company puts them up, now they can charge access fees to all the companies that want to use them, so there’s a financial benefit to making it happen.
 

citysnaps

macrumors G4
Oct 10, 2011
11,986
25,983
Everyone thought the same thing when they started making the chips for iPhones and look where we are now. I wouldn't bet against Apple.

No... I as well as many others were not a part of the "everyone" referenced above knowing about Johny Srouji, his track record, and the designers working under him (some who have now left to start their own venture). There was zero doubt in my mind.

Modem design is worlds apart from soc cpu development, requiring a deep understanding in modern communications theory and algorithm development. Qualcomm pretty much has had a lock on that brain trust going back to the 1980s, when Qualcomm was founded by Dr. Andrew Viterbi and Dr. Irwin Jacobs, among a few others. You might want to look into their long history of accomplishments with respect to communications systems and theory, and Qualcomm itself.

Not saying Apple *can't* produce a better modem. Just wouldn't bet on it.
 
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iFan

macrumors regular
Jan 3, 2007
248
723
I don't see mmWave ever being viable in the US given how suburban US society is. You need access points on top of every street light, and that's not going to happen in the suburbs. And then there's the attenuation from walls, ruining things for anyone indoors. There are very limited use cases for mmWave, such as sporting arenas or concerts.

Putting access points on top of every street light was exactly the plan I was told back a DECADE ago by the former SVP of AT&T's network group, Kris Rinne. She was also the same lady who negotiated the initial deal between Apple and Cinguar. Brilliant woman. I trust her vision.

Her thoughts were: Much cheaper and easier to get approval to put 5G/micro-cells on every street light than it is to build a tower in most areas. Whereas in some areas like Texas it is easy to build a tower quickly, in other states they drag the process on through meetings for 2-3 years. AT&T, verizon etc have a lot more power than people think to put up access points wherever they want in public areas, but the towns can delay the process if they want. Some of my old boss's entire jobs were just to schmooze with the local politicians to make this process easier.

They've been investing Capex in this long before 5G. At least 8 years now. As far as mmWave being viable on a mass-scale? You're probably right - and some of my network engineering friends agree with you 100%. But these local access points will still improve the network, especially in areas that were difficult to get new tower approvals.
 

IIGS User

macrumors 65816
Feb 24, 2019
1,101
3,084
I don't see mmWave ever being viable in the US given how suburban US society is. You need access points on top of every street light, and that's not going to happen in the suburbs. And then there's the attenuation from walls, ruining things for anyone indoors. There are very limited use cases for mmWave, such as sporting arenas or concerts.

I suppose it depends on where you live and travel.

I live in the suburbs where MM wave is non existent, however. The beach resort towns I frequent in MD and DE have substantial deployments of MM wave 5G. So does the area where the hospital I go to in the city for my regular follow ups and imaging.

Last time we were down the beach, I skipped the hotel WIFI and put my phone near the balcony and used that connection to remote into my work computer to take care of some urgent issues. I do the same when I am at the hospital. I basically work from the café that is street facing second floor and remote in. My boss allows it, and it saves me from burning sick time for follow up tests.

I use it more than just around the stadiums and in concert venues. I could remote in on LTE just fine, but the difference in performance is noticeable.

MM wave will never be and "everywhere" thing, but with so many FTTP deployments out there, the roof of every apartment building, light pole, and office building becomes a possible deployment.

It will take time, but I think the long term impact of MM wave technology is misunderstood by a lot of people.
 

Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
5,692
6,661
Seattle
As much as I like Apple and have immense respect for what they've created regarding M-series processor chips, I'm skeptical they'll be able to produce modem chips that will outperform or equal Qualcomm's.
Maybe not, but Samsung has to design their chips to work with any phone and they have to make a profit selling them. Apple can focus on a modem that works well in just iPhones and iPads and Apple could use designs and processes that might cost too much for Samsung as a seller but that only cost Apple a few cents more to build. We'll see in just a couple of generations of phones.
 
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gene731

macrumors 6502
Oct 28, 2015
407
423
I hope we don’t see an outpouring of hate towards Qualcomm when Apple start using their own modems.
I’d seriously doubt it and see no need to. Apple and Qualcomm had their little spat Apple gave them some money later on because Intel wasn’t getting the job done and life moved on. Eventually, not in my lifetime because I have terminal cancer, they should transition to their in house modems and I sure hope that is a huge success as the Apple Silicone has appeared to be.
 
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1258186

Cancelled
Feb 5, 2021
813
1,009
I’d seriously doubt it and see no need to. Apple and Qualcomm had their little spat Apple gave them some money later on because Intel wasn’t getting the job done and life moved on. Eventually, not in my lifetime because I have terminal cancer, they should transition to their in house modems and I sure hope that is a huge success as the Apple Silicone has appeared to be.
I’m really sorry to hear about your cancer and hope you get to enjoy the remaining time you have. ?
 

nsayer

macrumors 65816
Jan 23, 2003
1,250
776
Silicon Valley
I think the purpose of mmWave is mostly to maximize bandwidth in areas were there is high density, including stadiums and urban centers - it's unlikely we would see it rolled out in the suburbs.
This exactly.

There are two mm5G deployment spots I have personally experienced. One of them makes perfect sense - the Salt Lake City airport. It's exactly the sort of high density, high usage sort of place you'd expect this sort of thing to be put to maximum advantage.

The other place I've experienced it makes zero sense. It's a crossroads in San Jose (Bascom & W. San Carlos) where the most prominent landmark is The Pink Poodle.
 
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