Quark begins cut-price product, upgrade deal


iGary

Guest
May 26, 2004
19,583
0
Randy's House
I've gotten some really aggressive advertising packets from Quark lately.

I think they're tired of InDesign eating their market piece by piece.
 

zelmo

macrumors 603
Jul 3, 2004
5,490
1
Mac since 7.5
Won't make any difference to me. As a commercial prepress manageer, I have to support both Quark XPress and Adobe InDesign, and that means I've already upgraded to v6.5 (and am glumly awaiting the release of CS2 to spend even more money).
 

emw

macrumors G4
Aug 2, 2004
11,177
0
powermac666 said:
Won't make any difference to me. As a commercial prepress manageer, I have to support both Quark XPress and Adobe InDesign, and that means I've already upgraded to v6.5 (and am glumly awaiting the release of CS2 to spend even more money).
Doesn't that just suck. And the worst part is keeping all the back versions because customers are too cheap to upgrade. We still have people sending us Quark 3.32 :eek:

As for the price drop - maybe it will help to push some of these slackers to move one.
 

narco

macrumors 65816
Dec 9, 2003
1,155
0
California.
emw said:
Doesn't that just suck. And the worst part is keeping all the back versions because customers are too cheap to upgrade. We still have people sending us Quark 3.32 :eek:

As for the price drop - maybe it will help to push some of these slackers to move one.
It's weird, I think Quark5 is one of the long lost mysteries of the world. Either people are using Quark4.1, or Quark6 -- never 5.

And because of how printers do keep copies of both Quark and InDesign, I will continue to use Quark since that's what I've been using for the past 11 years (damn, I'm getting old). Plus most places only accept PDF files now anyway.

Fishes,
narco.
 

emw

macrumors G4
Aug 2, 2004
11,177
0
narco said:
It's weird, I think Quark5 is one of the long lost mysteries of the world. Either people are using Quark4.1, or Quark6 -- never 5.
I don't think it was lost - it was thrown away. Quark 5 was the product that never should have been... Not really any better than 4, but still not OS X.
 

TwitchOSX

macrumors 6502
May 2, 2002
496
2
Southern Oregon
Quark is just getting scared

InDesign blows Quark out of the water in so many ways its not even funny anymore (well, still fun to joke about I guess) and they are seeing market share being eaten up very fast. I wouldnt be suprised if InDesign isnt getting to around 50% of the market by now. Xpress just sucks. I HATE using it here... its so antiquated. Its like using Pagemaker. I bitch and moan every time I have to do anything in it.

As for CS2, I am sure we wont be getting that any time soon. I dont see enough upgrades to warrant getting it. Havent even heard ANYTHING about IDCS2 - only stuff about Photoshop.

/somebody needs to put a bullet in Quark and put them out of thier and our misery
 

Paul O'Keefe

macrumors regular
Jan 23, 2005
110
0
Say bye to Xpress

We've kicked Xpress to the curb in our office. The Adobe environment works for us, seems better, and it it's a whole lot cheaper to get the CS bundle than Xpress.
 

Blue Velvet

Moderator emeritus
Jul 4, 2004
21,652
123
narco said:
It's weird, I think Quark5 is one of the long lost mysteries of the world. Either people are using Quark4.1, or Quark6 -- never 5.
We used ver 5 from the minute it was released...
 

narco

macrumors 65816
Dec 9, 2003
1,155
0
California.
Paul O'Keefe said:
We've kicked Xpress to the curb in our office. The Adobe environment works for us, seems better, and it it's a whole lot cheaper to get the CS bundle than Xpress.
Yeah, I've been playing with the idea of using InDesign only. I design magazines (ads, layouts, etc.) and have been slowly doing all the ads in Illustrator/Photoshop, then importing them into the magazine template. As of now, all of the ads are converted and the only thing I actually USE Quark for is to lay the text out and convert to PDF.

I would probably switch completely if someone came over and set up InDesign for me so that I wouldn't lose a beat. Deadlines are really strict, so I'm unable to stop, learn a new program and make sure all the settings are good enough for the printer.

So I pretty much feel I am STUCK with Quark. Also, I am just a bit afraid of switching -- it took a couple years for me to finally upgrade to OS X.

As I said before, since 95% of the printers I work with only accept PDF files, it doesn't really matter what I use. Then again, people keep telling me that NOBODY will be reading magazines 5 years from now ANYWAY, so I should just go back to school!

Fishes,
narco.
 

narco

macrumors 65816
Dec 9, 2003
1,155
0
California.
Blue Velvet said:
We used ver 5 from the minute it was released...
I wanted to upgrade, but my boss was too cheap at the time. Now, when I accept ads from agencies, most of them use Quark 4.1. I don't think I have ever received a file made in Quark 5. I just thought it was kind of weird, but never really paid too much attention to it.

Fishes,
narco.
 

mrsebastian

macrumors 6502a
Nov 26, 2002
744
0
sunny san diego
forget the usual id vs quark battle, but i find it very interesting that adobe cs2 is soon shipping and quark has this promotion at the same time. i think part of the reason id has picked up a lot of users as well, is the price. these prices are from the manufactures sites and are full retail: $899 for the standard edition cs2 and $949 for quark 6 (free upgrade to 6.5). we can argue features and nit pick which program does this or that better, but in the end cs2 is a much better deal, as you also get photoshop, illustrator, and then some. on that note, if you were to get id by itself, it's still cheaper than quark at $699. the premium edition of cs2 is $1199, you the get all the software you need for pretty much everything relating to graphics, from print to web and then some and with a lil creativity you can get it for the standard price.

why pay more money for quark, when you can get id, which is equally good (this is a price argument, so we'll call them equally good), as well as photoshop and illustrator that every graphics person purchases as well?!... oh yeah, even the upgrade price is better cs2 (standard) at $349, quark $499 if upgrading from version 4 which most people have, since 5 went nowhere. lastly, if you do some searching and are diligent, you can find adobe cs1 for around $250 and upgrade to (premium) cs2 for $549, which brings you to $799 and that is still cheaper than you know who... uh quark, i think you lost the price battle as well. if you could gather your things and just go ahead and leave then, that would be great :D
 

TwitchOSX

macrumors 6502
May 2, 2002
496
2
Southern Oregon
STUCK with Quark?

I just dont understand some people's perception of upgrading. Its so much more effecient overall to upgrade to the newer technologies. It shouldnt take anybody years to upgrade to OSX. AND, I wouldnt trust Quark's ability to output to PDF on a broke dead dog.

As for Quark 5, we used it. When I first started working here 2 and a half years ago, they were using Quark 4.1. I had never used a page layout app before and thats what they taught me on. I urged them to get Quark 5 (my ignorance on the application itself) and they got it. No different than 4.1 IMO. Then we got 6 later. But, shortly after learning Xpress, I heard about InDesign somewhere and d/l the trial. I really liked it and so I urged them to get it. We got that awesome Pagemaker --> InDesign upgrade and I havent looked back since. I create NOTHING new in Xpress. Only when I HAVE to due to older files, do I use Xpress.

Whales,
TwitchOSX
 

narco

macrumors 65816
Dec 9, 2003
1,155
0
California.
TwitchOSX said:
I just dont understand some people's perception of upgrading. Its so much more effecient overall to upgrade to the newer technologies. It shouldnt take anybody years to upgrade to OSX. AND, I wouldnt trust Quark's ability to output to PDF on a broke dead dog.

As for Quark 5, we used it. When I first started working here 2 and a half years ago, they were using Quark 4.1. I had never used a page layout app before and thats what they taught me on. I urged them to get Quark 5 (my ignorance on the application itself) and they got it. No different than 4.1 IMO. Then we got 6 later. But, shortly after learning Xpress, I heard about InDesign somewhere and d/l the trial. I really liked it and so I urged them to get it. We got that awesome Pagemaker --> InDesign upgrade and I havent looked back since. I create NOTHING new in Xpress. Only when I HAVE to due to older files, do I use Xpress.

Whales,
TwitchOSX
I hope I am misreading your post, because it sounds like you're frustrated with my upgrading history.

NOW I know that OS X is much more stable compared to OS 9, but back then it was a huge step. If something messed up, or if I found out my programs wouldn't work in Classic, then production would be forced to come to a halt until all problems were fixed. I'd rather "put up" with any little problem than to deal with major problems and risk losing my job.

When I first installed 10.1, it did screw up my computer. Many calls to Apple support, posting in forums, etc., but i finally got it fixed.

And as I see it now, there really isn't a reason for me to upgrade. Every printer I have worked with accepted my Quark PDF's, even though they said the file size is a bit larger than normal. Like I said earlier, all I do is place ads and text into a Quark template, then export to .ps, then use Distiller to make the PDF. This operation works FINE for me, and I couldn't see cutting my time in half with anything else.

If you aren't happy with the rate I upgrade, then I will email you my address and you can buy and set up the programs for me.

Wholly Mammoths,
narco.
 

Belly-laughs

macrumors 6502a
Jun 8, 2003
844
16
you wish
Narco…

If you design your ads in ps/ai and take them through quark for type-setting and going to pdf I´m convinced you´ll love InDesign and it´s tight integrity with your main design packages and the typographic controls it offers. Oh, and the colour management!

I´ve used ID since v1 (it was really cheap back then, introed at £199) and haven´t looked back. But I still keep XPress upgraded for those odd jobs that demands it.
 

TwitchOSX

macrumors 6502
May 2, 2002
496
2
Southern Oregon
Well.....

I MAKE time to research and implement upgrades. No point in my employers keeping me as an employee if I cant do that. If I didnt do that, and was content with how they ran things when I first started working here 2 years ago, we would still be using a G4 450, with Photoshop 5 and Quark 4.1. As it is, I said to hell with this, made them upgrade to OSX, made them buy the Creative Suite, and finally made them buy a DP 2.5ghz G5. Gotta stay current.

Dinosaurs,
TwitchOSX.
 

zelmo

macrumors 603
Jul 3, 2004
5,490
1
Mac since 7.5
narco said:
edit...As I said before, since 95% of the printers I work with only accept PDF files, it doesn't really matter what I use.
Wow, so that's how the other half lives....
We only get about 5% of our files as PDF. We accept any file you got, and I mean ANYTHING. Word, Excel:eek:, Publisher, Powerpoint:eek:, Wordperfect:eek:. Heck, we had a client send us a Broderbund Print Shop Deluxe file once :eek: :eek: (OK, we re-created that one :rolleyes: ).
I wouldn't ever look to upgrade an application unless I needed a specific feature, personally. But some designer somewhere is going to buy CS2, and they are going to expect that their printer is somehow expert with an application the day it is released. We have 20 Macs and 4 PCs in our prep department and 10 operators to train, so every new release is a couple of grand down the hole. No wonder the company Pres. call us SS PrePress.
 

narco

macrumors 65816
Dec 9, 2003
1,155
0
California.
TwitchOSX said:
I MAKE time to research and implement upgrades. No point in my employers keeping me as an employee if I cant do that. If I didnt do that, and was content with how they ran things when I first started working here 2 years ago, we would still be using a G4 450, with Photoshop 5 and Quark 4.1. As it is, I said to hell with this, made them upgrade to OSX, made them buy the Creative Suite, and finally made them buy a DP 2.5ghz G5. Gotta stay current.

Dinosaurs,
TwitchOSX.
I agree. I do research, quite a bit -- enough to not upgrade for months after the release. I was even afraid of buying my dual 2.0ghz G5 because it didn't come with OS 9, therefore couldn't use Quark4.1. That's when I upgraded to 6.

I am thinking about switching to InDesign more and more each day. When I buy another Powerbook soon, I will load it on that and test it out before I make the final switch.

Elephantitis,
narco.
 

Blue Velvet

Moderator emeritus
Jul 4, 2004
21,652
123
mrsebastian said:
why pay more money for quark (?)
Because when you have an established workflow, a tweaked & temperamental RIP, a studio with 3 experienced designers who are Quark demons, about 7 years worth of archived work & templates, very little time to undertake training, a production schedule that has about 150 projects booked in before Xmas... well, then what's a few hundred dollars/pounds on some software?

A transition to InDesign for our setup is something that cannot be done on a whim. I would like to leave Quark behind but the effort involved is not something to be undertaken lightly... this is Quark's trump card.

I seriously doubt that InDesign has 50% market-share as an earlier poster mentioned, probably more like 15-30% tops, less so in the UK but there's no denying who has the momentum.
 

zelmo

macrumors 603
Jul 3, 2004
5,490
1
Mac since 7.5
Blue Velvet said:
Because when you have an established workflow, a tweaked & temperamental RIP, a studio with 3 experienced designers who are Quark demons, about 7 years worth of archived work & templates, very little time to undertake training, a production schedule that has about 150 projects booked in before Xmas... well, then what's a few hundred dollars/pounds on some software?

A transition to InDesign for our setup is something that cannot be done on a whim. I would like to leave Quark behind but the effort involved is not something to be undertaken lightly... this is Quark's trump card.

I seriously doubt that InDesign has 50% market-share as an earlier poster mentioned, probably more like 15-30% tops, less so in the UK but there's no denying who has the momentum.
Not incredibly scientific, but a quick scan of our 332 jobs-in-process shows 211 Quark files received versus 15 InDesign files. That's 63.5% to 4.5%.

And you really don't want to know about that other 32%!
 

narco

macrumors 65816
Dec 9, 2003
1,155
0
California.
powermac666 said:
Wow, so that's how the other half lives....
We only get about 5% of our files as PDF. We accept any file you got, and I mean ANYTHING. Word, Excel:eek:, Publisher, Powerpoint:eek:, Wordperfect:eek:. Heck, we had a client send us a Broderbund Print Shop Deluxe file once :eek: :eek: (OK, we re-created that one :rolleyes: ).
I wouldn't ever look to upgrade an application unless I needed a specific feature, personally. But some designer somewhere is going to buy CS2, and they are going to expect that their printer is somehow expert with an application the day it is released. We have 20 Macs and 4 PCs in our prep department and 10 operators to train, so every new release is a couple of grand down the hole. No wonder the company Pres. call us SS PrePress.
Yeah, I've talked to some of the printers and asked if they wanted files in any other format, most of the time they tell me "it's too much of a hassle."

If someone sends them a compressed file with all the fonts, images, etc. and there is a problem, the printer can either fix it themselves or have the designer do it. Based on what I've heard, most of the time the designer is someone just out of community college design school and thinks "overprint" is when the paper is wet after ink touches it.

If there is a problem with my PDF file, it's easy for them to correct, if not they call me and I submit a new one. Simple as that.

If I managed a pre-press department, I would probably be in jail. I give you props, man -- that's a tough job!

Fishes,
narco.
 

TwitchOSX

macrumors 6502
May 2, 2002
496
2
Southern Oregon
Yea...

I can understand how long people have been using Quark for.. but damn.. in a span of 2 years, with no real training, I have just about mastered Quark AND InDesign, by myself. I by no means call myself a master, or pro at either program, but I think I'm pretty damn good with both of them. Same with Photoshop, but I have been using that since v2.5 (pre layers era :eek: )

But.. want to talk about tough?

Pretty much the same as powermac666 EXCEPT,

I am the only pre-press person. We have 2 Macs and a PC in my office. I have nobody to talk to about problems or issues, I rely on Google and Adobe forums. We take ANYTHING as well (small print shop - we have to). People all the time saying "well, I designed it in "Print Shop"" and I have to explain that thats not a professional program and we dont have it. I then have to direct them to download PrimoPDF so they can PDF thier stuff without having to pay $400 for Acrobat.

I send PDF's to everybody. When companies ask for EPS or TIFF or whatever, I send a PDF anyway.

Unfortunately, most of the stuff we get in from customers is not professional quality, or built in a professional printing program such as Quark or InDesign. So, I pretty much try to force them to send me PDF's which means getting PrimoPDF and using that. It seems to help.

Swamp Donkeys,
TwitchOSX.
 

Greencardman

macrumors 6502
Apr 24, 2003
489
2
Madison, WI
I know an design agency that still uses OS 9 and Quark 4.1/5.0. The main reason is that the designers don't have time to learn OS X and to figure out how to do things all over again, and quite frankly, the Principals whine about spending money. Yes, in my opinion, they would earn thier money back quite quickly if they upgraded to OS X, and I'd say even by switching to InDesign. Oh, and they are still on G4 450 Mhz too. Yes, it seems like the stone age, but the reason they haven't switching is partly money, and partly fear. You can't just switch from Quark to Indesign and think you're not going to have problems, or that you'll automatically know how to do everything, and when having problems means turning in things late, well, it becomes an option thats out of the question. You can't turn things in late, so you can't switch programs, so you end up being on G4 450 Mhz's running OS 9.2 and Quark 4.1 and having computer problems and downtime constantly.

If you ask me, they'd save more money by turning down a job and using the free time to switch over and spend 8 hours a day training, but hey, they're not me.