Question about tire pressure...

[iGav]

I've had a number of flats, but never a failure.

I've lost count of the flats I've had... I've also had somewhere in the region of 4 failures (different cars, different tyres) 2 of which were Goodyear NCT Eagles, I've had a Dunlop SP fail on me and a Pirelli PZero Rosso. Interestingly my brother has had failures with a Goodyear Eagle and a Dunlop SP too.

Luckily my last two motors have used run flats, the Audi had the Michelin PAX system, and my BMW uses Michelin ZP's, no problems at all.

 

[Black&Tan]

I've lost count of the flats I've had... I've also had somewhere in the region of 4 failures (different cars, different tyres) 2 of which were Goodyear NCT Eagles, I've had a Dunlop SP fail on me and a Pirelli PZero Rosso. Interestingly my brother has had failures with a Goodyear Eagle and a Dunlop SP too.

Luckily my last two motors have used run flats, the Audi had the Michelin PAX system, and my BMW uses Michelin ZP's, no problems at all.

Damn. Bad carma.

What did you do?

 

[IJ Reilly]

I've lost count of the flats I've had... I've also had somewhere in the region of 4 failures (different cars, different tyres) 2 of which were Goodyear NCT Eagles, I've had a Dunlop SP fail on me and a Pirelli PZero Rosso. Interestingly my brother has had failures with a Goodyear Eagle and a Dunlop SP too.

Luckily my last two motors have used run flats, the Audi had the Michelin PAX system, and my BMW uses Michelin ZP's, no problems at all.

This seems so odd to me. I've been driving for nearly 35 years and in that time, I've had exactly one flat tire and zero tire failures. I do remember buying a tire with a defective belt, but it was replaced without failing. What do you do to make a tire fail?

 

[buckinjo]

Really Bad Carma

Have you bent a Rim before? I work for BMW and have deals with Continental,Goodyear,Dunlop (Dunslops), Pirrelli and never really had a warranty problem.

 

[iGav]

What did you do?

Well... I have been known to lean on the tyres a little.

Though usually I'll up them by 3-4 psi if I'm going to be either making some serious progress or partaking in a track day.

Have you bent a Rim before?

Nope, the failures were structural... the tyres were replaced under warranty, sometimes it just happens.

That said, I've been lucky... my failures have been at relatively low speeds, on a straight. My brother's Dunlop SP failed him on a bend, sent the car into a spin and he ended up going down a 12ft ditch backwards, had it been forwards he likely wouldn't have survived.

A large part of the problem is of course the design of the wheel rim, and the tyre... it's flawed, and inherently not as safe as it could be. The tyre manufacturers know this, but the cost of implementing a new design, and the subsequent costs that it would involve (new equipment at tyre centres, training staff, etc) whilst still supporting the current system would be prohibitive.

Michelin's PAX system is a step in the right direction though.

 

[tristan]

It is perfectly normal to plug a tyre as long as the nail is in the 2/3 and not on the shoulder of the tyre... I've done it myself about 10k times when I worked for a tyre place for a couple of years.

Agreed. Just to clarify, I said that an "improperly" patched tire would fall apart. My point is that, assuming you're concerned about the quality of the work, then this tire issue may be more than just an uncomfortable annoyance, it could actually be a danger to you and your passengers, so you should get it checked out. But there's nothing inherently wrong with patching a tire if done properly.

 

[Roger1]

I'm betting the tire is out of balance from the repair. Did they patch or did they use a plug? A patch is like what you would use on a bicycle tire. They are used on larger punctures in tires. A plug is for smaller holes. Either one may cause your tire to become out of balance. As for the air loss, I'm betting the repair job was done incorrectly. I had an incident where I ran over a BOLT about 6" long. They used a plug on it. I ended up with a slow leak, so they took the tire off and put a patch over it. Problem solved.

 

[furryrabidbunny]

Okay... I'm back on this one

I wasn't expecting so many replies. I am very worried about a blowout on this tire, which is why I have been anal about checking it. I let it sit for about 10 hrs, and checked it and it was around 31, which is what I filled it to. I don't trust the patch... and I am honestly trying to find a reason for sears to replace the tire. The ride feels like the tire is out of balance, but I've had it balanced twice since the patch.. once by sears (I removed every weight off each rim), and once by my dad who is a mechanic. The best way to describe the ride on the tire is it feels like the tires is uneven. My dad swears to me that the rim on the wheel is egged shaped, but neither sears or the place I bought it from said the rim was anything but round (I have also switched the rim out, and the problem persists, which is why I still insist it is the tire). Are there any other mechanical reasons that could cause something like that? I would ask my dad, but he's done everything he could do on a lunch break for free lol.

 

[furryrabidbunny]

I'm betting the tire is out of balance from the repair. Did they patch or did they use a plug? A patch is like what you would use on a bicycle tire. They are used on larger punctures in tires. A plug is for smaller holes. Either one may cause your tire to become out of balance. As for the air loss, I'm betting the repair job was done incorrectly. I had an incident where I ran over a BOLT about 6" long. They used a plug on it. I ended up with a slow leak, so they took the tire off and put a patch over it. Problem solved.

They used a patch. My dad checked the tire before we put it on and the patch looked good.

 

[furryrabidbunny]

Have you bent a Rim before? I work for BMW and have deals with Continental,Goodyear,Dunlop (Dunslops), Pirrelli and never really had a warranty problem.

I haven't myself, but when I bought the car, a stock rim was bent badly, so I replaced them. The tires are michelins... I took out the ten buck warranty on them, so if a patch or something doesn't take I can replace the tire for eight bucks. My dad swears the rim is bent, but we've swapped them out, and the problem stuck.

 

[beatsme]

I haven't myself, but when I bought the car, a stock rim was bent badly, so I replaced them. The tires are michelins... I took out the ten buck warranty on them, so if a patch or something doesn't take I can replace the tire for eight bucks. My dad swears the rim is bent, but we've swapped them out, and the problem stuck.

warped brake rotors will produce the kind of vibration you're talking about, though they'd shudder a lot under braking so you'd probably have figured that out already.

if the tires/rims check out, then probably the front wheel bearings are shot. Bad bearings will definitely produce vibration (which will become more pronounced as the tires wear), as well as give a rather harsher and somewhat more noisy ride.

btw, is this a front wheel drive car? when does this vibration occur? is it constant, or does it only occur during acceleration/breaking? Is the car equipped with a manual or automatic transmission?

EDIT: well, let me back off that statement a bit. It could be that the wheel bearings are shot.

 

[MacNut]

Axle or maybe steering column?

 

[beatsme]

Axle or maybe steering column?

a bad CV joint will noticeably vibrate during acceleration. You can usually tell when one's gone bad because you'll hear the "clunk" when you turn, but sometimes they don't "clunk" at all. The only way to tell for sure is to get the car up on a lift and push on the half-shaft...if there's any movement at all it's bad.

EDIT:
and having said that, the vibration could really be caused by any number of things. Worn ball joints, worn bushings on the tie rods, a twisted or bent steering knuckle, bad struts if it's a MacPherson strut suspension, etc.

::sigh:: might be time to take it to a mechanic...

 

[IJ Reilly]

Sounds like you really need to buy a new car.

Seriously, if you've had the wheel balanced, and it still feels out of whack, I'd suspect damage to the steel belts, possibly by whatever punctured the tire in the first place. Do you have a full-size spare? If so, I'd replace the suspect wheel with the spare wheel and tire, and see if the problem persists. If it doesn't, then you you've narrowed it down to the wheel or tire. Then swap the tires on the original and spare wheels and drive it on both combinations. Then you will definitely know! Get this done where you bought the tire or had it repaired. Have the mechanic who does the work test drive it, preferably with you in the car. Don't assume that you have a major problem until the minor ones are eliminated.

 

[furryrabidbunny]

The vibration is only noticable at high speed (65 mph and up).

 

[furryrabidbunny]

a bad CV joint will noticeably vibrate during acceleration. You can usually tell when one's gone bad because you'll hear the "clunk" when you turn, but sometimes they don't "clunk" at all. The only way to tell for sure is to get the car up on a lift and push on the half-shaft...if there's any movement at all it's bad.

EDIT:
and having said that, the vibration could really be caused by any number of things. Worn ball joints, worn bushings on the tie rods, a twisted or bent steering knuckle, bad struts if it's a MacPherson strut suspension, etc.

::sigh:: might be time to take it to a mechanic...

I know... I am just a cheap bastard... maybe when my dad gets back from vacation i'll pay him to look at it and figure out the problem. I just don't feel safe with that tire.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Why not try what I suggested? It's cheap and foolproof.

 

[beatsme]

I know... I am just a cheap bastard... maybe when my dad gets back from vacation i'll pay him to look at it and figure out the problem. I just don't feel safe with that tire.

yea, I had this problem with my dear, departed Ford Probe. In my case, it was in fact the wheel bearings. New tires will dampen the effect, but once they start to wear it gets worse and worse. Drove me absolutely batty. I went through mounting/balancing, tire rotation, front-end alignment, & new tires before I figured it out.

IJ Reilly's suggestion sounds like a good one. You may as well try to take that particular tire out of the equation altogether and see if the problem persists. If it does, I'd be willing to bet it's the wheel bearings. The good news is that they can probably be replaced for...(been a while)...under $200USD parts/labor.

 

[furryrabidbunny]

Why not try what I suggested? It's cheap and foolproof.

Didn't get through reading everything... I would try the spare, but I haven't actually looked at the spare before, so I don't know if it is full size. I also have a 44 mile daily drive, so I am warry about putting unnessary strain on my spare... but it is a good idea, it would certainly rule out the tire as the true problem.

 

[Black&Tan]

The vibration is only noticable at high speed (65 mph and up).

Why didn't you mention this before, this is indicative of an issue with your front end alignment, not your wheel balance. Have that checked out....

 

[IJ Reilly]

Didn't get through reading everything... I would try the spare, but I haven't actually looked at the spare before, so I don't know if it is full size. I also have a 44 mile daily drive, so I am warry about putting unnessary strain on my spare... but it is a good idea, it would certainly rule out the tire as the true problem.

Then this is a good time for you to check out your spare, if only to find out if it's fully inflated. If it's full-size, then I wouldn't worry about driving on it normally. Only the compact spares have speed and distance restrictions. Besides, there's no real need to drive to work on it. You just want to get it up to speed for long enough to determine if the problem is in the wheel or tire or elsewhere.

BTW, I don't buy the alignment theory. If your front-end was far enough out of alignment to harshen the ride (very far!), then you'd feel the car pull noticeably to the left or right at fairly low speeds.

 

[aquajet]

Why didn't you mention this before, this is indicative of an issue with your front end alignment, not your wheel balance. Have that checked out....

What most people describe as a vibration at 65 mph is almost always a tire that is out of balance or out of round, and is usually more apparent at certain speed ranges than others. An alignment issue causes an entirely different kind of vibration that isn't nearly as apparent.

 

[furryrabidbunny]

Then this is a good time for you to check out your spare, if only to find out if it's fully inflated. If it's full-size, then I wouldn't worry about driving on it normally. Only the compact spares have speed and distance restrictions. Besides, there's no real need to drive to work on it. You just want to get it up to speed for long enough to determine if the problem is in the wheel or tire or elsewhere.

BTW, I don't buy the alignment theory. If your front-end was far enough out of alignment to harshen the ride (very far!), then you'd feel the car pull noticeably to the left or right at fairly low speeds.

Neither do I... there is only a pull at the high speed, but it isn't to any particular direction (if that makes sense). Depending on the road... sometimes it pulls to the left, sometimes to the right, and only at high speeds (travelling in the far left lane).

 

[beatsme]

Neither do I... there is only a pull at the high speed, but it isn't to any particular direction (if that makes sense). Depending on the road... sometimes it pulls to the left, sometimes to the right, and only at high speeds (travelling in the far left lane).

I had long thought that the pull phenomenon you describe was caused by the crowning of the roadway. I've had cars do that, too, and they were in more or less perfect working order.

 

[furryrabidbunny]

I had long thought that the pull phenomenon you describe was caused by the crowning of the roadway. I've had cars do that, too, and they were in more or less perfect working order.

crowningn normally doesn't occur on freeways on the far left lane do they? I thought they are normally in the right lanes of surface streets.