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Question for MBP/8600GT owners...

groove-agent said:
Is there *anyone* who games with their 8600GT and has been problem free?
Click to expand...

I have my 512 mb 8600GT mbp since last October (got a cheap "leftover" unit when the unibodies came out since I too prefer a mate screen) and so far so good – "knocks on wood". I have played WoW under Mac OS X and Fallout 3, Bioshock, Mirrors Edge, Tomb Raider Underworld and Left 4 Dead under Windows.

I keep smc fan control running at 2500 rpm minimum, it's still almost quiet and doesn't run too hot, stays below 70° Celsius even while gaming. I don't know if that has anything to do with it being problem free though.

As far as I know the problem could appear anytime without a warning but like I said, I got a sweet deal for my machine so I thought I'll risk it, if the gfx card breaks that's what the warranty is for.
 
pdxflint said:
If this is true (not just conjecture and tech media punditry) then Apple would be dumb to replace a failed 8600GT equipped motherboard with another chip built in the offending time frame because of the likelihood of another failure, maybe sooner than later, which could just wind up costing them another repair.
Click to expand...

Do they have a choice? I don't know how reliable it can be, but according to the inquirer, nvidia has been allegedly mixing the replacements up without really fixing anything; so if apple has been told by nvidia that card made after a certain deadline are ok what can they do?

The only thing they could do is to desing a new logic board for the early 08 model with another gpu, but that would cost money and I doubt apple will ever take this in consideration (even though I think they should and have nvidia to pay for it)
 
pdxflint said:
In any case, if it (gpu failure as a matter of course) was endemic to all 8600GT equipped MBPs, period, then there should be very few of that generation MBPs that haven't suffered the problem. I've heard the 100% figure bandied about, and that just seems hard to fathom. Apple would go broke if that were true. If even 30% of all MBPs had to be replaced because of this failure, there would have been no profit in that line of laptops for the life of this model - (Apple's margins are 30-35%) - yet we know laptops made up a large part of Apples sales revenues, and presumably... profit.

Something just doesn't fit, by my way of looking at it.
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+1, very well thought out analysis.

If 100% of the GPU's were affected, then there would be a recall and Apple would be in deep financial trouble to replace all of the MBP's of that year. Higher than normal failure rates still can't be that high or you would be hearing a huge stink.

Personally, I'm thinking even if the 8600 dies even 3 years after purchase, Apple would probably replace it due to the public knowledge of the issues of those parts. Afterall, it's their quality/customer service at risk.
 
pdxflint said:
If this is true (not just conjecture and tech media punditry) then Apple would be dumb to replace a failed 8600GT equipped motherboard with another chip built in the offending time frame because of the likelihood of another failure, maybe sooner than later, which could just wind up costing them another repair. If there is a definite batch number cutoff point where the problem was dealt with, smart business decisions would be to write off the old, defective parts, and move everything from that point on to the 'fixed' ones. That's just common sense, and saves Apple money, not to mention the tackling an issue which has led to questions about their quality control.

In any case, if it (gpu failure as a matter of course) was endemic to all 8600GT equipped MBPs, period, then there should be very few of that generation MBPs that haven't suffered the problem. I've heard the 100% figure bandied about, and that just seems hard to fathom. Apple would go broke if that were true. If even 30% of all MBPs had to be replaced because of this failure, there would have been no profit in that line of laptops for the life of this model - (Apple's margins are 30-35%) - yet we know laptops made up a large part of Apples sales revenues, and presumably... profit.

Something just doesn't fit, by my way of looking at it.
Click to expand...

I hope you're right. The other theory could be related to usage though. What if there's an inherent design flaw that can't be easily fixed without a complete redesign? Perhaps this flaw only appears when MBPs are used a certain way, or over the course of time. Perhaps Apple is hoping that they wont end up failing, or will fail when the warranty expires. Please prove me wrong 'cause I want a 15" MBP classic!

I currently have a 17" SR 2.4Ghz. The GPU failed once and replaced. Although the GPU has been relatively find since the repair, there has been other issues such as the fan spinning up full speed, then staying on full speed until I reboot and secondly when it gets hot, the unit wont reboot without a battery inside (my batter was completely swollen up and ready to explode).
 
I purchased the first MBP to come out with the 8600M GT in July '07. Th GPU died within days of my warranty expiring in July '08. Everything has been fine so far, but I won't be surprised if it fails again by this summer.

So is it now Apple policy to substitute a new unibody for repeat failures?
 
I purchased my MBP in July '07. Th GPU died within days of my warranty expiring in July '08. Everything has been fine so far, but I won't be surprised if it fails again by this summer.

So is it now Apple policy to substitute a new unibody for repeat failures?
 
Radio Monk33 said:
Nvidia has made a habit out of "rebranding"/renaming their chips, possibly leading to consumer confusion when it is the same model.

I.e. the 8800GTX-->9800GTX-->current 250GTS!

Srsly. Therefore I would not be surprised if the 130=8600.

For the record, I have an 8600GT MBP (2.4 Penryn) that I have pushed hard and have not had any problems yet. I think the number of defects is low. Kind of like how lots of people complain about burnt/stuck pixels...but in actuality you see very few of them. I'd take the FUD with a grain of salt.
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The 8800m GTX is different from the 9800 GTX. The 8800m GTX has 96 sp vs. the 112 that the 9800m gtx has.
 
Several things to keep in mind:

1. These things are not even two years old.

2. I've seen several people stating they have had multiple 8600's die. A possible indicator that the failure rate is not a low percentage.

3. Relating to point 1, these things could have a much higher failure rate in the 3rd and 4th years, when Apple is off the hook.

4. If Apple has a huge stock of defective 8600's and there is decent cost difference between those and a new chip, and a majority of the chips fail after year 2, guess what Apple is going to do?
 
Radio Monk33 said:
I think the number of defects is low. Kind of like how lots of people complain about burnt/stuck pixels...but in actuality you see very few of them. I'd take the FUD with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...

There are people who reportedly had their logic boards replaced four times.
 
looking4anotebo said:
4. If Apple has a huge stock of defective 8600's and there is decent cost difference between those and a new chip, and a majority of the chips fail after year 2, guess what Apple is going to do?
Click to expand...

There are three "ifs" in your point. And and assumption that you know what Apple's strategic business decisions would be if all the "ifs" were true. Certainly speculation on your part is fine, but it doesn't make it fact.

MrZebra said:
There are people who reportedly had their logic boards replaced four times.
Click to expand...
Reportedly. Maybe in some cases, it's true. We hear all kinds of things from people who have problems, and I wouldn't be surprised if their unhappiness also lead to some exaggeration in the re-telling of their stories. There are actually people on this forum who have posted multiple messages complaining about Apple's customer service, product quality control, design philosophy, etc. etc. You'd actually be led to believe they had experienced these things themselves, but later find out they are still waiting for their first MBP to arrive via FedEx.

The only thing that truly matters is raw data, and maybe Apple isn't going to share that with us because it's all bad, or maybe the problem isn't as big as the noise on some forums would have us believe it is, and Apple is just going about their business normally. I don't know the answer to this, so speculation is all we've got. That's why I absorb all the feedback from end-users with a grain of salt. I haven't had a problem. If I tell you this, will you feel better and now say I represent the majority experience? Probably not. So, why assume that those who have had a bad experience represent the majority any more than me, or others who haven't even bothered to report our experience to this forum?

What I'd like to see is the data from Apple. What percentage of MBP with 8600GT gpus have actually failed. How much has it cost Apple to fix. Have they lost money on the product as a result of this failure. What about other components in their line. Do any of them fail? (optical drives, hard drives, circuit boards, power bricks, keyboards, power switches, trackpads, batteries, memory chips, lcd screens, etc. etc.) When you look at the whole picture, how is it possible for them to make any money? From what I read on these boards, Apple should be struggling to just keep up. Yet, they seem to be making good money on their laptop line of computers. Why would they have to resort to screwing over their customers just for an extra buck, when the cost to their reputation would take much more serious whacking if they did that?
 
looking4anotebo said:
Several things to keep in mind:

1. These things are not even two years old.

2. I've seen several people stating they have had multiple 8600's die. A possible indicator that the failure rate is not a low percentage.

3. Relating to point 1, these things could have a much higher failure rate in the 3rd and 4th years, when Apple is off the hook.

4. If Apple has a huge stock of defective 8600's and there is decent cost difference between those and a new chip, and a majority of the chips fail after year 2, guess what Apple is going to do?
Click to expand...

Please remember Apple is not obligated to do anything at all once the warranty is done. HP & Dell are fixing these on a case by case basis (after issuing a bios update that keeps the fans on most of the time) and Sony is charging full price for out of warranty repairs on their 8300 & 8400 based laptops. So all this speculation is moot. Other than perhaps helping you decide whether to keep a system that has never had an issue or dump it before it does, such conjecture in the face of incomplete data is useless (no one knows the exact sequence of events that will trigger a failure).

While the problem is more widespread than we would like it obviously isn't enough to keep people from buying Apple, Dell, HP & Sony laptops. Many of these in-warranty repaired units are most likely being sold as refurbs to unsuspecting buyers and may work fine for years. The issue is do you want to sit on one to wait and see if it fails.

I did not and sold off my once failed 2.2 SR MBP, falling back to this modded ATI-based 2.16 (which is now for sale so I can buy a refurb iMac 2.8 24").

No matter what we read here or elsewhere; the fact is there are millions of Apple, HP, Dell, HP, Toshiba and countless other brands using the mobile 8x00 nvidia GPU and they are NOT failing in the millions.

Tens of thousands perhaps but certainly not enough to harm any of these OEMs bottom line. If in 3 or 4 years they all just self destruct, perhaps some noise might be made, however, most people will just shrug and buy another laptop. If you are unlucky, complain loudly and as long as you don't own a Sony you may get an out of warranty repair or replacement. Just don't count on it.

Cheers,
 
looking4anotebo said:
Several things to keep in mind:

1. These things are not even two years old.

2. I've seen several people stating they have had multiple 8600's die. A possible indicator that the failure rate is not a low percentage.

3. Relating to point 1, these things could have a much higher failure rate in the 3rd and 4th years, when Apple is off the hook.

4. If Apple has a huge stock of defective 8600's and there is decent cost difference between those and a new chip, and a majority of the chips fail after year 2, guess what Apple is going to do?
Click to expand...

To play devil's advocate, remember that the people who complain on this board are a small percentage of MBP owners. It would be fair to say that people with problems are more likely to post than those who do not.

I was just about to purchase a sealed 2.5 ghz classic MBP but now I'm hesitant.

I remember reading somewhere that the original problem was due to the improper cool down of the 8600GT (by turning it off or sleeping the unit right after use). I'm wondering if I use a notebook cooler, keep the framerate down, and let it properly cool before shutting it down it might improve the longevity.

If I buy this laptop, I want it to last 3 years or so. If it fails once I don't care, as long as it's properly fixed afterwards. However, reports show that they do continue to fail after they have been replaced so I'm not sure what to do.
 
I bought the classic 2.5 MBP last October. It was an ex demo model that had been on display since April last year.
I guess it wasn´t used much in the shop.
The battery was bad and they changed that free of charge, and that´s the only problem I´ve had.
I use my MBP for HD video editing, and I use it a lot.
I don´t game on it, and I´m not sure how much strain video editing put on the GPU.

If I were you I would buy it. I´m really happy with what this machine can deliver.
 
So while in limbo, I decided to contact apple regarding the situation. There was something on their website where you can log in with your apple id, then they'll call you back when it's convenient or as soon as they can.

So I submitted my apple ID, described my problem, and a mere second before I clicked "submit", my phone rang! It was Apple on the phone!

So I asked him if the problem on the 8600GT chips has been addressed and he said "definitely, once the chip has been replaced, you shouldn't have any more problems with it". He also gave the caveat that computers are computers, so there's never any guarantee - and it depends on usage.

I've never heard of that kind of service before, and it totally restores my faith in Apple. I have a lead on a 2.5 Ghz unit fully sealed and will buy it if they ship to Canada and if I can use my credit card via paypal.
 
Groove-agent: Wow! That was quick. It certainly doesn't sound like a company that would just hide the issue, and re-use a known 'defective' part if there was a fix available, hoping to get you just barely past the warranty period. It sounds to me like a company that makes a healthy profit margin on their products, and with that profit they can afford to offer superior customer service. This is the part some Apple critics don't get - part of the 'getting what you pay for' is the customer service after the sale. Yeah, it's not perfect, but it sure rates higher than anyone else in the industry, by a large margin, based on customer satisfaction surveys.

BTW: You should also get Applecare (look for it on eBay - I got mine for $130 on a "make an offer" listing. I've seen MBP AppleCare for $159-$169 from various sources. In most cases you just get a code via email, which you register with Apple support. Look for a seller that's identity verified by Paypal, and offers Paypal protection - then pay with Paypal. If the code doesn't work for some reason... you have recourse. Everyone I've talked to who bought it this way had no problems at all. This would give you the three years you mentioned above.
 
I bought the early 2008 MBP refresh the very day it was released. So mine is a year and a couple of months old with my 8600GT/512. I have had no video problems in that time. I do have AppleCare for the next almost-2 years, so if it does go bad at least I can get it fixed. I've played many games in bootcamp Windows and Crossover Games in OSX during this past year, too, so I know I'm giving the gpu a workout.
 
I got a 2.2 GHz MBP pretty soon after they were refreshed as well. It went strong for just under two years but then the video card decided to bug out this weekend. I took it in to get repaired and got it back the same day.

Obviously since we have no hard info about failure rates or whether or not the replacement logic boards/gpu's are "fixed" or not, I'm paranoid about another failure. I'm probably in the same boat as a lot of people on here, trying to decide whether to sell the machine or not...(after disclosing the info about the logic board replacement of course :p).
 
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