Question on 2017 MBP PRO 15" keyboard

[Kulfon]

hello all,
I have mid 2015 RMB PRO maxed out that I use for photo editing. I have purchased the 13" RMB PRO that is 2017 dongle edition. What I hate in this laptop is the keyboard. I wanted to ask if the 15" has the same keyboard? Is this the new direction for future macs? If that is the case, then it is clear for me that the mid 2015 will be my last macbook and I will think about an iMac in the future with a normal keyboard.
Thanks!

 

[Samuelsan2001]

hello all,
I have mid 2015 RMB PRO maxed out that I use for photo editing. I have purchased the 13" RMB PRO that is 2017 dongle edition. What I hate in this laptop is the keyboard. I wanted to ask if the 15" has the same keyboard? Is this the new direction for future macs? If that is the case, then it is clear for me that the mid 2015 will be my last macbook and I will think about an iMac in the future with a normal keyboard.
Thanks!

Yes the keyboards are the same.

 

[leman]

Also, it seems that external keyboards are getting the same treatment in the future (look at the iMac Pro keyboard). If you don't like flat keyboards, you should consider moving to a different computer brand.

 

[Kulfon]

Seriously, Mac became form over functionality completely

 

[wheelhot]

Hmm, at first the feel of the lack of key travel is an issue, a couple of months of using it, and so far I don't feel it as an issue anymore and really appreciate how solid the keys feel (no plays whatsoever), though I still stand by my initial opinion that an extra 0.5-1mm would improve be better. Guess you either adapt or wait for Gen-3 keys, whenever Apple decides to update it.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

Seriously, Mac became form over functionality completely

Nonsense many people love the new keyboard and anyone with a brain knows that form is functionality with a portable device.

 

[Kulfon]

You said many, not most. Is 20-30% many? I think it is. This macbook did not become more portable.

Nonsense many people love the new keyboard and anyone with a brain knows that form is functionality with a portable device.

[doublepost=1510080528][/doublepost]What is gen-3? Never hears of

Hmm, at first the feel of the lack of key travel is an issue, a couple of months of using it, and so far I don't feel it as an issue anymore and really appreciate how solid the keys feel (no plays whatsoever), though I still stand by my initial opinion that an extra 0.5-1mm would improve be better. Guess you either adapt or wait for Gen-3 keys, whenever Apple decides to update it.

 

[Chancha]

Nonsense many people love the new keyboard and anyone with a brain knows that form is functionality with a portable device.

Keyboard is bloody basic, it should work reliably 99% if not 100% of the time. It doesn't matter if some other guy loves the new keys spontaneously or not if its fails in my face even just once. Looking at the failure rates and complaints it is fair to say the 2016/17 has not met that standard. The loss of reliability is easily way too much relative to the "gain" in shaving off the 1mm or so thickness, how ever much you like to say that extra lightness as an improvement in functionality.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

You said many, not most. Is 20-30% many? I think it is. This macbook did not become more portable.


[doublepost=1510080528][/doublepost]What is gen-3? Never hears of

Yes it did its thinner and lighter and has a smaller footprint it is inherently more portable, and the ubiquity of USB C and the bandwidth of TB 3 makes one cable solutions for peripherals much easier and less messy making them even better for portability. 20 - 30 % of the ultra conservative whinging people on mac rumours that does not translate to real world numbers especially when the small sample on here are often only here with an axe to grind.

Now I get they aren't what you personally want from a laptop but as I have mentioned many times Apple or anyone doesn't make them just for you. I consider them exactly what I want in a laptop, a focus on size and battery life with more than enough performance for the majority of uses. If you disagree that is fine as well don't buy them move onto something else that's life.
[doublepost=1510131733][/doublepost]

Keyboard is bloody basic, it should work reliably 99% if not 100% of the time. It doesn't matter if some other guy loves the new keys spontaneously or not if its fails in my face even just once. Looking at the failure rates and complaints it is fair to say the 2016/17 has not met that standard. The loss of reliability is easily way too much relative to the "gain" in shaving off the 1mm or so thickness, how ever much you like to say that extra lightness as an improvement in functionality.

Reliability is another matter and apple have seemingly dropped the ball a little there, but that has nothing to do with whether people find them good keyboards to use.

 

[Kulfon]

Just to be sure, so you say the MBP 2017 keyboard is better than MBP 2015?

Yes it did its thinner and lighter and has a smaller footprint it is inherently more portable, and the ubiquity of USB C and the bandwidth of TB 3 makes one cable solutions for peripherals much easier and less messy making them even better for portability. 20 - 30 % of the ultra conservative whinging people on mac rumours that does not translate to real world numbers especially when the small sample on here are often only here with an axe to grind.

Now I get they aren't what you personally want from a laptop but as I have mentioned many times Apple or anyone doesn't make them just for you. I consider them exactly what I want in a laptop, a focus on size and battery life with more than enough performance for the majority of uses. If you disagree that is fine as well don't buy them move onto something else that's life.
[doublepost=1510131733][/doublepost]

Reliability is another matter and apple have seemingly dropped the ball a little there, but that has nothing to do with whether people find them good keyboards to use.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

Just to be sure, so you say the MBP 2017 keyboard is better than MBP 2015?

I prefer it, low trave,l large keys quick and accurate with very little pressure, whats not to love.

 

[Falhófnir]

The feel of the gen 2 keyboard is ok, not great but functional enough. Gen 1 was borderline unusable because of the extremely vague feedback. If they increased travel by even 50% to .75mm that would probably make a whole universe of difference to how nice the keyboard is to type on, not to mention potentially helping to reduce the sticking keys problem with the greater rebound force. I think what most people don’t like is that the 2015 version was one of the better keyboards out there full stop. If they’d firmed the keys up a bit but otherwise left it unchanged that would probably be the gold standard of typing experiences (I think this is what they did with the new magic keyboard?)

 

[Chancha]

Reliability is another matter and apple have seemingly dropped the ball a little there, but that has nothing to do with whether people find them good keyboards to use.

The Butterfly 2 mechanism has already got a 2nd chance in the 2017 MBP to become reliable. If we count the 12" rMB as the first attempt, we are talking about 3rd or even 4th gen here. It may be conjecture, but this leads me to think the design itself is proved to be impossible to reach the same reliability rate as before.

That said, if and when Apple does perfect the new switch to be as reliable as it should be, but at the same time is still as thin, from the portability standpoint it is of course a welcome. The point of the debate is that they have not reached this, but still feel confident enough to ship, they clearly got their priorities sideways. This begs the question on how Apple sees its "pro" line up computers: are their targeted users actual professionals who need reliable machines, or are they a less demanding bunch?

 

[Samuelsan2001]

The Butterfly 2 mechanism has already got a 2nd chance in the 2017 MBP to become reliable. If we count the 12" rMB as the first attempt, we are talking about 3rd or even 4th gen here. It may be conjecture, but this leads me to think the design itself is proved to be impossible to reach the same reliability rate as before.

That said, if and when Apple does perfect the new switch to be as reliable as it should be, but at the same time is still as thin, from the portability standpoint it is of course a welcome. The point of the debate is that they have not reached this, but still feel confident enough to ship, they clearly got their priorities sideways. This begs the question on how Apple sees its "pro" line up computers: are their targeted users actual professionals who need reliable machines, or are they a less demanding bunch?

Perhaps I am less demanding or perhaps I don’t take a few problems posted online as evidence of a widespread problem amongst the millions of units sold.

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

Is this just another thread to stoke the flame a little? Surely you knew what keyboards were where before starting this thread... New keyboards are solid and comfortable to use, whenever I try type on my old Mac it's like typing on a sponge.

 

[ZapNZs]

No one can say what the new direction is for Macs - Apple has usually done what Apple has wanted to do, in a take-it-or-leave-it fashion. However, the new keyboard design enabled Apple to achieve what they wanted to achieve, whether you love it, hate it, or don't really care because it's just a laptop keyboard & all laptop keyboards kind of suck.

A revision to the design seems very possible, if not probable - however, this revision may be more a change under the hood to improve durability/longevity than a change to how the keys look and feel to the User. It's also possible (although how likely isn't clear) that Apple could introduce e-Ink keys - this new design, at least to me, appears to make e-Ink theoretically easier to implement, and e-Ink keys + a touchbar with taptic feedback would, IMO, be one of the more revolutionary developments in the laptop world in quite some time (I'd go as far to say it would be potentially as revolutionary as when laptops switched over from NiMH to LiIon, because it would give one of our primary input devices a new dimension that it never previously had - the implications would be tremendous--combine this with FaceID and I think this could be a landmark development in how we use and interact with a computer.)

 

[newellj]

Also, it seems that external keyboards are getting the same treatment in the future (look at the iMac Pro keyboard). If you don't like flat keyboards, you should consider moving to a different computer brand.

I bought a bunch of the earlier style keyboards when BestBuy was clearing them out. They have the traditional, normal, key travel. I probably have enough to last me for the rest of my life, given my experience with how durable those keyboards are - unlike the current crop.

 

[Naimfan]

Perhaps I am less demanding or perhaps I don’t take a few problems posted online as evidence of a widespread problem amongst the millions of units sold.

You might perhaps benefit from a review of Apple's support forums and some knowledge of statistics. Those would show that the keyboard of the 2016/17 models is indeed a more widespread problem than you appear to care to admit, which can be further supported by conversations with those folks in Apple stores who deal with it on a daily basis.

 

[wheelhot]

What is gen-3? Never hears of

The latest Mac notebook comes with gen-2 switches, if you manage to get your hands on the first gen Apple MacBook, then you'll feel how much better gen-2 switches feel in comparison to the gen-1 switches. I guess in the next few years we will see gen-3 switches, hopefully with slightly increase travel as it'll solve a few manufacturing problems as well