Question on SSD upgrade old 2009 Mini

Discussion in 'Mac mini' started by DonCarlos, May 14, 2019.

  1. DonCarlos, May 14, 2019
    Last edited: May 14, 2019

    DonCarlos macrumors regular

    DonCarlos

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    #1
    Hello all.

    I thought I would come here perhaps someone own an old 2009 mini has resolved this issue or knows some information

    Any input is appreciated.

    I picked up an older mac mini) early 2009 and upgraded the Ram and now am stalled at putting in an SSD, The old drive has a tiny temp/thermal board that was stuck on the corner of the old metal HD.

    What do I do with this sensor?

    -Leave it hanging?
    -Attached it to to the corner of the new plastic case SSD (I mean the SSD generates no heat)?
    -Attached to an exposed piece of meta housing where the new SSD goes?
    -Or ????

    My concerns:
    1. That leaving it hanging may cause the fan to go bonkers
    2. That attaching the wired sensor to the corner of the plastic SSD would at least pick up ambient heat.
    3. That doing any of these things may just melt the mac Mini

    4) Am I worried about nothing?

    So.....any input, especially from those that have upgraded to an SSD on a 2009 (the old 2007 did not have such a wired sensor so never an issue) is appreciated.
     
  2. treekram, May 14, 2019
    Last edited: May 14, 2019

    treekram macrumors 68000

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    Nov 9, 2015
    Location:
    Honolulu HI
    #2
    I'm installing a SSD in my late-2009 Mini today - a coincidence. I took out the old HDD and put it and the new SSD in enclosures and was cloning the disk when I saw your post. So after the cloning operation was done, I checked to see where it was warm. The HDD was definitely warmer. It depends on your SSD - if it's a new design and if it has a smaller capacity, the chips will be near the connector. My SSD is a Crucial BX500 240GB. There's little to no temperature difference where the sensor was originally. After cloning the data, it was warm near the connector so I placed it there, about 1.5 cm from the connector edge of the SSD.

    Just a couple of notes for people doing this - the newer design SSD's are the thin models (under 7 mm in height). The HDD it replace will typically be 9mm. Even though I got the retail package, it didn't have a spacer but I had a spacer from a SSD I bought earlier. The spacer is definitely handy for use in the 2009 Mini.

    The second thing is that the late (and I think the early as well) 2009 Mini models have the Nvidia MCP79 SATA chipset and these can cause problems for some SSD's. Supposedly, the BX500 is compatible but when I have the Mini reassembled, I'll find out.
     
  3. DonCarlos thread starter macrumors regular

    DonCarlos

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    #3
    Hello tweekram
    I appreciate you response. I too installed a 240gb, (Kingston brand). And I installed 8 gb of RAM. I anticipate the RAM will heat it things up.

    And yes, that’s quite the coincidence of us both upgrading our 2009 mini.

    I will be interested on how it works out for you. Mine is a 2.0 ghz, early 2009. So please keep the thread alive it may be helpful to all interested..

    After I posted this I contacted two places, OWC by chat, and Apple hardware support by phone.

    OWC wrote “Our SSD’s have a metal case so that should help with the sensor", but I disagreed saying that SSD does not generate heat, regardless of the casing. I think the person was just guessing at all this. He said that it all could cause the fan to run out of control or not to run at all. And I think that’s a correct statement.

    APPLE, I spoke to on the phone and there was never was a question about support by phone on such an old mini. They looked up the temp/thermal wire and said “Do not remove it, do not let it dangle free, attach to the corner to the SSD, and monitor heat issues or constant running fan”. If either happens evaluate whether you want to keep the SSD in or not. They mentioned I could take the thing into an apple store and get the advice from an apple tech for free. letting him look at the thing. The temp/thermal chip is two sided, it monitors not only the hard drive side but the back of it is monitoring the temperature flowing though the duct. We agreed that I shouldn’t cover the back side by taping it on to the SSD corner. Hopefully there is enough residue left on the thing to stick to the SSD corner.

    So.....

    Other research on line, I did find some answers for the temp/thermal wire chip, but the answers were for iMac (issues of the same set up install SSD and what to do with the temp wire thingy). From what I could tell, downloading and installing smcFancontrol may be an option, and I currently have an app on all my macs called SystemPal that does all that as well (cost me $2.99 at the apple store). Works on newer and older macs and has a high heat alert.

    But we will see what ultimately happens. Fingers crossed, maybe it will never be an issue, I just don’t want to fry this old critter.

    I won’t put my mini back together until I get a new cmos battery. The current one is fine but old, and while I have the mini apart.......why not wait. Seems silly that in our city, the correct replacement is not to be found. BR2032, which what Apple uses since the battery composition inside, works better with hot machines like the mini. Plenty of CR2032 which is touted as an alternative but is made of a different substance. I just don’t want to pull this thing apart again for a battery so I will wait. eBay has ‘em.

    All comments are appreciated.
     
  4. treekram macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Location:
    Honolulu HI
    #4
    SSD's will generate heat. But with the SATA3 SSD's in a 2.5-inch enclosure, especially in older computer which can only do SATA2, it won't generate much heat. My opinion is that on a SSD, the sensor should be put where the heat is likely to be the greatest. I have put the computer back together but looking at the pictures, I think there's actually more air flow where I put the sensor rather than on the back of the SSD.

    I tested my battery and it was still putting out 3 volts, so I left it in. I would agree with you that it is better to use a BR2032 but I think people use a CR2032 in these old computers without a problem.

    So one thing you need to check once you get your Mini running is whether or not the SSD negotiated speed is 1.5Gbps or 3Gbps. You can find this in the System Profiler app in the SATA section. For me, the BX500 does show a negotiated link speed of 3Gbps. The computer is working fine thus far.
     
  5. TonyK macrumors 65816

    TonyK

    Joined:
    May 24, 2009
    #5
    upgraded a 2009 MM to a 500GB SSD and don't remember any wire dangling to the side.

    Photo please?
     
  6. treekram macrumors 68000

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    Nov 9, 2015
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    Honolulu HI
    #6
  7. a2jack, May 15, 2019
    Last edited: May 15, 2019

    a2jack macrumors regular

    a2jack

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    #7
    Stand corrected. I do see that lead on step #17. a2
     
  8. TonyK macrumors 65816

    TonyK

    Joined:
    May 24, 2009
    #8
    I was the previous owner. We purchased the 2009 MM new from the Apple store here. I may not be remember the lead because I had no issues in changing the old HD for the SSD.
     
  9. DonCarlos thread starter macrumors regular

    DonCarlos

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    #9
    Looks like the tacky adhesive on the thermal/temp wire chip sensor, is no longer tacky. Any suggestions on an adhesive to use that will not thwart the señsor reading on the ssd case side. Trying to avoid tape because it will cover the exposed back side of the chip (which measures the flowing temp outside the ssd), if that makes sense).

    Also any overheating issues or runaway fan issues treeram?
     
  10. treekram macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Location:
    Honolulu HI
    #10
    There's something called "Aleene's All-Purpose Tacky Glue" so I think if you search for "tacky glue" that's actually a category of glue. Maybe double-sided tape will work as well. A good-quality SATA3 SSD type for the 2009 Mini should not overheat so the main thing (my opinion) is that you don't break it because that could make the system run the fan constantly.

    I haven't had any issues so far. The Mini spent 4 hours making a byte-by-byte image of the SSD onto a HDD (this is done because I have both HFS+ and NTFS partitions on the SSD). This was done using a bootable CD program (non macOS) but I think the thermal management runs outside the OS so if that's the case, it had a good workout today.
     
  11. DonCarlos thread starter macrumors regular

    DonCarlos

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    #11
    --- Post Merged, May 16, 2019 ---
    Thanks for all the information and suggestions.

    I think I was too cautious and anticipated the problem that never arose.

    Mini is assembled and updated software, trim control and such.

    Been running for the past 7 hours. I have two different temp monitors running and they are with 2 celsius of one another, At idle....42 degree centigrade, and fan RPM 1497-1500. Under load temp 53-60 C and fan at 1645RPM. So all pretty normal I think. I will leave the mini on for another 5 hours and then I will be satisfied.

    I have full 3 gps speed and did a sudo command to turn trim on. My SSD is a 240 GB Kingston brand. And I have 8 GB of RAM running.

    So I guess the many readers are relieved that they don’t have to read about such an old old mini, that was brought back to life.....

    Hey Treek....you are running a dual boot, what is your windows OS and did you use boot camp I imagine. I am governed to only run a 32 bit OS in order to run some old windows based software.

    Maybe all this info that went back and forth will help others at some point.

    _My only issues involved loading El Capitan as a fresh install. This was brand new SSD no system on it, My USB was able to format the SSD but not the install. Got many kernel attacks based on date time issues, so that was corrected by some sudo commands. The El Capitan loaded, but not from my USB, but actually from the apple web site Recovery.. Slow but better updates and things.

    Regards to all
     
  12. treekram macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Location:
    Honolulu HI
    #12
    You are better to be cautious and have it work than reckless and not have it work.

    I am glad things are working for you and happy that you get 3Gbps negotiated link speed. If people are not interested in the thread topic, they just ignore it so it's OK. There are some threads about subjects that I know very little about and can contribute nothing so I skip those threads.

    I'm running Windows XP using Boot Camp on my system. My old XP computer died and I installed Windows 10 on my 2012 Mini and it can do most of what I need it to do but I wanted to have a XP system available just in case... From what I was reading, XP won't run on most newer Mac's and my 2009 Mini was mostly idle so I decided to bring it back to life. The macOS it's running is Snow Leopard. I also tried running XP using VirtualBox and that works quite well but there were reasons why I decided to instead run XP on my 2009 Mini.
     
  13. wol macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2005
    #13
    As mentioned in other replies, SSDs, in particular when writing large amounts of data, do heat-up somewhat (with older models in general being worse than modern SSDs). If I remember correctly from upgrading 2010 and 2011 Mac minis with SSDs, the HD temperature sensors was glued with some kind of sticky tape to the side of the HD. After installing the SSD, I re-attached the temperature sensor at approximately the same position on the SSD.

    In addition, on both Mac minis I've installed "Macs Fan Control" - see https://www.crystalidea.com/macs-fan-control
    On the Mac mini mid 2010, I changed from "Auto" control to "Based on Airport Card" temperature control, which seems to provide a good balance between fans speed (noise) and component temperature even under high CPU load.

    I would also recommend to keep always at least 40 GB of disks space on the SSD available, as MacOS requires some disk space for storing temporary files, swap space, updating logs, etc.
     
  14. DonCarlos thread starter macrumors regular

    DonCarlos

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    #14
    Again thanks to you all for your suggestions and input.

    Day 2 and all is running great. Not overheating no crazy fans. I monitor the fan with SystemPal and SMCFan. Both have consistent readings. I do think I will locate some sticky two sided sticky tape in case the sensor comes off.

    I wanted to add a couple things that I learned:

    In case others are wondering about dual boot with this old mini. I know that treek mentioned he had a dual boot.

    I have El Capitan loaded as my OSX. I used the BootCamp from El Capitan, and loaded a valid Windows 7 32 bit OS. No issues went smooth....but of course my curiosity got me wondering about Windows 10- 32 bit. I have to stay with 32 bit because of some old programs I will need to run.

    I thought even though Apple and Everymac and the Internet, says the maximum Windows OS is 7.....what stops me from upgrading while in Windows 7 . Crazy but it worked and it has an activated windows digital entitlement .

    (Back when W10 came out I made two different Windows 10 DVD (32 and 64 bit), and held on to them). So after I tested W7 booting in and out etc....I was in W7 and loaded the W-10 dvd install disk I made in late 2015.

    I’ll be darned if it asked “do you wish to upgrade” and I accepted the upgrade, while in W-7.

    Then the process started. What I should add is that I sat watching it and every time it reached a point saying “restarting to continue installation”. I just let it restart, and held the “Option” key and it took me to the Windows HD icon and I booted into that. There were five restarts and it took about 90 plus minutes. And then after every reboot it picked up where it left off, as if it were a windows machine restarting. Incredible. And it worked. W-10 works fine, I even still have that grey diamond bootcamp icon, on the task bar, to boot to Mac. All the Bootcamp stuff on the windows side is still there, all the drivers work...etc.

    I am sure I must not be the first one that has done that,,,,but prior to doing this I had not read anything
    about successfully installing Windows 10 via Windows 7 via El Capitan Bootcamp, on a 2009 MM.

    And....it was fun again to mess around with entire process and challenge of opening up that old MM.

    I have a free Kingston 480GB SSD and now I am thinking about continuing the fun of playing with my macs. My 2012 MM has a 5 year old EVO SSD, perhaps I should replace that now. Teeny tiny tool stuff indeed, and but I enjoyed the first SSD I put in there, and I still have all the tools. And sadly now....you cannot do any of that stuff anymore with the Mini or the iMac.

    IMG_8481.jpeg IMG_8482.jpeg IMG_8487.jpeg IMG_8475.jpeg
     

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13 May 14, 2019