Quick Takes: The Comfort of Apple's Ecosystem, Using a 2009 Mac Pro in 2018, and More

[zubikov]

iMac 2009 user here. Upgrading to the best possible i7 processor was probably the most efficient way to spend $150. Besides SATA II, USB 2 and an outdated graphics card, I can't say much is holding me back. I was able to upgrade the HDD, and swap out the DVD drive for an SSD to form a fusion drive. The processor is still very fast compared to many mobile CPU benchmarks of today.

I hope the adage of "you pay for quality" still holds true in Apple's future desktops/pro hardware. They built a great machine, and spending nearly 3K on it 9 years ago proved to be a solid decision.

 

[deanthedev]

There's no need to paint yourself into a corner like the reviewer is keen to do. For example, you can save hundreds of £$s if you don't have to buy a HomePod to play your apple music subscription. Likewise, you can save the same hundreds if you don't force yourself to continue the belief that iOS is the only way.

That’s an awful lot of typing to prove my point - if you’re using Apple devices you’re not locked down or prevented from interacting with others. Which is what the poster I replied to claimed.

BTW, who said iOS was the only way? Or that I’m “painted into a corner”?

 

[Glideslope]

I am still rocking my late 2008 MBP...and the only upgrade is a SSD drive....so there!

Same here. Early 2008 MP with SSD's. Have a 2017 iMac as well though.

 

[kingtj]

I've got a 2006 model over here that I'm working on upgrading and making viable again. Truthfully, the ONLY reason a lot of people are writing this one off is the fact that it can't use a Xeon CPU new enough to support a few things that are required to make the Sierra series of OS X run.

You can pretty easily "hack" it to boot El Capitan though, and with $90 or so spent on a replacement, upgraded Bluetooth/Wi-Fi card, you can make it support the "hand-off" and AirDrop features, plus use the latest 802.11ac wi-fi standard.

It only cost me about $55 to buy a pair of Xeons for it that are the same as what the highest-spec 2008 Mac Pro used to include (quad-core instead of dual-core), and an EFI re-flash gives it the ability to use them just like a 2008 model.

Given these machines are already 12 years old, I don't think you can really expect them to keep running without major hardware failures of some sort, for TOO much longer. But it seems to me you can throw $200 or so at one that you can likely obtain free from a business retiring it, and have a really nice Mac that will run for about as long as El Capitan is still a useful OS X version!

I am still rocking my late 2008 MBP...and the only upgrade is a SSD drive....so there!

 

[MacSince1985]

The 2010 Mac Pro is the best computer purchase I've ever made. Over the years, I've replaced the processors, RAM, GPU and just about every drive in it and it keeps purring.

Mac Pro (Mid 2010)
Processor 2 x 3.46 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon
Memory 48 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
Startup Disk SSD RAID
Graphics NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 2048 MB​

 

[kingtj]

I enjoyed his article, just because it shed some light on the upgrade path other people are following who share the interest in upgrading these older Mac Pros.

But yeah, it was clear to me the author wasn't aware of some of the options available.

(I actually posted a reply on his site, telling him about the secondary power supplies out there designed to fit into a 5.25" drive bay. They're generally 450 watts and designed to solve his exact issue of not having enough power to run the graphics cards along with the rest of the machine. Most people don't really need the second, lower optical drive bay in a Mac Pro anyway - so it's a good place to put one.)

Yes, he mentioned that you can upgrade CPUs and memory. I'm not sure I understand why he went into great detail about benchmarking against newer machines, when "completing the upgrading" with faster CPUs and memory would have made a more interesting comparison.

And he did mention that you can upgrade Westmere CPUs up to 3.06 GHz CPUs, when you can go somewhat faster (up to 3.46, I believe).

Finally, exactly what version of FCP was he using?

The RX 580s are too expensive, and you would certainly update the CPUs and memory. And, he mentioned he "reduced the power" to the GPUs such that they wouldn't shut down the Mac Pro. Interested readers in MR know that there are inexpensive cables to properly power modern GPUs, as required.

Really, the takeaway from the article was that you can take an old 4,1 and make 2x RX 580s work in them. But unless you have a couple of these lying around, this is not the path you would take.

 

[jadot]

That’s an awful lot of typing to prove my point - if you’re using Apple devices you’re not locked down or prevented from interacting with others. Which is what the poster I replied to claimed.

BTW, who said iOS was the only way? Or that I’m “painted into a corner”?

Nobody. I was referring to the article. I should have said "If one was to paint oneself into a corner..." but hey it's an internet forum.

Suggest not getting your knickers in a twist. Don't take it personally. I was agreeing with you.

 

[apple_iBoy]

May I ask what you mean here? I have prepared a Mac Pro from 2006 for a friend's parents and it's on El Capitan but I haven't installed the latest security updates but planing to do so. Anything that will break? I know I have to replace the boot.efi files that get overwritten, but is there anything else?

Yeah, you're going to want to NOT allow the January 2018 security update to run. It will put things in a boot loop. It was such a hassle to get things back up and running again. See summary on the first post here (and gnashing of teeth on more recent pages).

 

[gnipgnop]

The main problem with upgrading a 2009 Mac Pro is that the original motherboard is a total bottleneck for contemporary graphics cards. I upgraded to a GTX 970 and was able to run a 4K monitor and get some benefit from the big increase in VRAM for photo apps and Adobe CS. However, when I ran graphics benchmarks for the system, the numbers were barely better than the original Radeon. The GTX 970 also required me to swap out the graphics cards every time Apple updated the OS because the driver would be out of date. I had to put in the old card to run the old non-4K monitor in order to download the new Nvidia driver, then put the new card back in, reboot, and connect to the 4K monitor. That gets old fast. Additionally, you can't use plug-in upgrades for Bluetooth on the newer versions of macOS, so Bluetooth was hopelessly out of date as well.

My solution was to buy the low-end iMac 5K in 2017. Way better performance for graphics than the updated Mac Pro and also provides contemporary Bluetooth/WiFi hardware + better than 4K resolution.

 

[frozen220]

I am still rocking my late 2008 MBP...and the only upgrade is a SSD drive....so there!

In 10 years you've not even replaced the battery? Or do you just keep it plugged in all the time?

 

[cajun67]

Number one reason why I haven't upgraded to an iPhone X is that I don't want to give up Touch ID for Face ID.

I would love it if Apple would release an upgrade to the X that included BOTH Face ID and Touch ID (integrated into the screen), and allow you to choose which one you wanted to use for most security tasks. Or choose to use both for even greater security.

 

[Bruce Patterson]

WOW is the OS on that Vivo phone ever an iOS copy wtf! Right down to the calendar icon...

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

Just imagine if the new Mac Pro has soldered RAM, non-user upgradable RAM, GPU, and storage. Apple shouldn't bother releasing it.

The next MP should be a slimmed down cheesegrater - the best computer Apple has ever made. And from all appearances, ever will make.

I don’t see it happening this way. The current “Pro” desktop machines use slotted RAM and a socketed CPU. Apple does need to adopt a standardized GPU format, even if it’s MXM. The cylinder MP is all they need to look at to see how bad proprietary graphics solutions can be for longevity. As soon as the customer base rejected the idea, the chances of AMD modernizing the cards died with it. It’s possible the design was flawed to begin with and revisions weren’t possible/practical, but that’s just my speculation.

 

[MacLawyer]

"It took me years to understand that the value I get from Apple's ecosystem far outweighs its shortcomings. While not infallible, Apple still creates products that abstract complexity, are nice, and work well together. In hindsight, compulsively chasing the "best tech" was unhealthy and only distracting me from the real goal: finding technology that works well for me and helps me live a better, happier life."

So he took the blue pill.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Man, all this retro MP talk makes me sad thinking how Apple completely abandoned what I call the "high end hobby" market -- those of us happy to spend $2-2.5K on a low end user upgradable tower. To my regret I sold my mid-2010 MP when I (wrong) though Apple was about to update it -- they did kinda with the 2012, but I was looking for something more substantial. My desktop is now a low-end 27" iMac. Just not comfortable spending a ton of $ on a mostly sealed computer.

With Mac sales a sliver of Apple revenue I wish they would spin-off the division like they did with Claris, now Filemaker. Either that or license a partner to design and sell modern DIY upgrade logic boards for older MPs. Back when Apple did license Mac OS the 3rd party's Macs were often better than Apple's own machines. I owned a couple of them. I had a UMax clone tower that was great.

 

[Naimfan]

I don’t see it happening this way.

I, and many others, hope you're right!

And based on the iMac Pro, and the statements Apple HAS made about the new MP, it's a reasonable inference. But Apple has so completely screwed up the Mac line it would be surprising if it didn't do the same to the MP.

 

[MrBat]

I don’t see it happening this way. The current “Pro” desktop machines use slotted RAM and a socketed CPU. Apple does need to adopt a standardized GPU format, even if it’s MXM. The cylinder MP is all they need to look at to see how bad proprietary graphics solutions can be for longevity. As soon as the customer base rejected the idea, the chances of AMD modernizing the cards died with it. It’s possible the design was flawed to begin with and revisions weren’t possible/practical, but that’s just my speculation.

Was on an interview that Top Brass from Apple confirmed they put themselves on a thermal corner with the trashcan design. Also, locked up proprietary parts on the Mac Pro? The heck Apple?

Use soldered ram and HDD on slim MacBook Air and MacBooks if you must, to slim it down for those users that love ultrabooks.

However, soldering up all components on "Pro" machines is just madness and greed. Ain't gonna shelve top dollar on a locked up machine I can't take apart myself and upgrade as I see fit. Period.

 

[sdwaltz]

My 2012 Mac Pro (single 3.2ghz Xeon, 20gb ram, 240gb SSD, 1tb HDD, ATI 5770) is still a beast and I will use it until it dies...which will presumably be a very long time.

Hell, I just sold a 2008 Mac Pro with the dual 2.8 Xeons a couple months ago that was still quite fast for being 10 years old.

Love these machines.

 

[ChazSch]

Ah, the cheese grater. So pretty, modular and nice to work with.

Ah, my old 13" MBP, just slap a 2.5" SSD and 16GB RAM and boom, life is good. Too bad only holds an old dual core. MagSafe tho, total life saver. When MacBooks Pro were actually quite "Pro". Once upon a time.

Times of yore. I feel old.

I am at the point where it won't upgrade to latest OS....yet I know it will run it. There has t be a way.....

 

[johngordon]

​

Ummm ok until you have to interact with someone who doesn't own or have access to Apple hardware. Then yeah it's great! MacStories editor-in-chief wouldn't have any bias at all would he?

What sort of interactions are you thinking of? Maybe I'm unusual, but I can't say I need to interact with other people's devices in any meaningful way.

The whole thing about 'the ecosystem' is often portrayed as a bad thing, but mostly it just makes everything really convenient.

 

[AmazingRobie]

The Retro review is an extremely sad read knowing that nothing coming out of Cupertino will ever be of that high build quality again. Apple is a bag of you-know-what now. Every machine, every product, every bit of software. We all knew that when Jobs died things would never be the same, but we had faith that since he hand selected Cook and Ive to supersede him and look after everything, things just might turn out. Here we are so many product launches later and you can see how these idiots have just cut corner after corner, pushing untested update after update, thinner and thinner to save money on aluminum and ensure overheating, notch after notch after butterfly keyboards and cheap faulty displays, churning out cheap garbage Walmart style trash with a premium price tag. Ugggh. It's just sickening.

 

[-hh]

From my own personal experience and use, when I upgraded from a flashed 4,1 cMP with the fastest Westmere CPU possible (W3690) to the base 27" 5K iMac (i5-7500), I can tell you that CPU performance was roughly the same. In some cases, the 7500 is faster, in others, the W3690 was faster. While that's a desktop CPU competing against a workstation CPU, that really tells you how powerful those old cMPs really were. They were expensive machines for their day, but look how long one could last depending on your needs.

Expensive is relative...as the cMP's started at under $3K, whereas you can't even touch any iMac Pro at that price today, even if you apply a $1000 credit for its integrated display. Given the cMP prices and Moore's Law (at least in theory), an iMac Pro should cost only $2K ... not $5K.

I am really curious just what Apple will do with the new Mac Pro. With Xeons having so many cores now, I doubt it will be dual socket. Will it have multiple blade bays? Will it use standard GPUs, or at least MXM versions?

Suggest you check to see if its already been covered in the "waiting-for-mac-pro-7-1" thread, probably in its first 8200 posts.


-hh

 

[Naimfan]

Suggest you check to see if its already been covered in the "waiting-for-mac-pro-7-1" thread, probably in its first 8200 posts.


-hh

Indeed!

Might have been covered a few (hundred) times . . .

 

[Tech198]

I still like the cheese-grater Mac's

 

[jimbobb24]

Cue all the 'Why can't Apple be like Samsung and allow this, that, and the other?' rhetoric.

I am happy with Apple doing away with TouchID.

I am interested in touchID in a phone. I think its great. Probably not enough to move to Android...I still like my iPhone (though 11 is the buggiest ever).