RAID Cards, Configurations, and the Mac Pro

[nanofrog]

no, I've been away from the computer a few days and will maybe give this a go when I get back and if i can get a few hours to myself. Will update when I can. Cheers again Nanofrog!

This really should work.

BTW, can you send the VMWare in for a refund, or do you have to "eat" it?

 

[ncc1701d]

This really should work.

BTW, can you send the VMWare in for a refund, or do you have to "eat" it?

I haven't got it yet and I would use the trial version before I did any way. I'll give your way a try first when I get the time. And the stones - I'm bound to wipe my OSX raid drives or something!

 

[nanofrog]

I haven't got it yet and I would use the trial version before I did any way. I'll give your way a try first when I get the time. And the stones - I'm bound to wipe my OSX raid drives or something!

At least you didn't cough up the $80 yet.

It won't blow the OS X RAID. You're installing them under Windows, not OS X. Windows can't read HFS(+), and there's no Windows drivers for that card anyway. So it can't access the array at all.

 

[ncc1701d]

The 5th drive installation should work, and boot camp isn't needed, as it's an entirely separate drive.

Download the AHCI drivers, and do a fresh installation of windows. When you get to the screen of drives and partitions, go to Load Driver, and feed it the AHCI drivers. Once it's done, then hit REFRESH*. Pick the drive, and go.

The only possible issue I can think of (along the lines of your conversation with Apple), is they blew it with the firmware. That is, the RAID card takes over all the SATA ports, rather than just 4.

VMWare would have a cost in resources, and overall performance would depend on what you have in the system (memory), and how loaded you run it.

Do the trial if you have to, but try the AHCI drivers first. Free can't be beat.

*Don't forget this step, otherwise you'd get an error message at the bottom of the install screen, and it won't install to the drive.

Hope this helps, and good luck.

Hi Nanofrog. I've finally got a few days to myself to try and get this done. I've clicked on the web site you linked in your post, it takes me to a downloads page for Intel Matrix Storage Manager. I select "Windows Vista". The read me file for those drivers is out of my depth. From what I can gather I'm doing something with AHCI, but it needs Vista already installed. If I have it already installed... why would I be trying to put these drivers on?

The next part of your post says to "do a fresh installation of windows"...

I put the Vista disc in and I fail to see how I can install it to any drive, let a lone the 5th one I want

You need to imagine you are talking to a Baboon or an ape creature from the Andes.

Cheers

 

[nanofrog]

Hi Nanofrog. I've finally got a few days to myself to try and get this done. I've clicked on the web site you linked in your post, it takes me to a downloads page for Intel Matrix Storage Manager. I select "Windows Vista". The read me file for those drivers is out of my depth. From what I can gather I'm doing something with AHCI, but it needs Vista already installed. If I have it already installed... why would I be trying to put these drivers on?

The next part of your post says to "do a fresh installation of windows"...

I put the Vista disc in and I fail to see how I can install it to any drive, let a lone the 5th one I want

You need to imagine you are talking to a Baboon or an ape creature from the Andes.

Cheers

1. Download the driver.
2. Extract the driver files

7.2 Use one of the following command examples to extract the
driver files from the different package types:

c:\iata_cd.exe -a -a -pc:\<path>
c:\iata_enu.exe -a -a -pc:\<path>
c:\setup.exe -a -pc:\<path>

When the command is run, the installation process begins;
simply click through the dialogs as prompted. This will not
install the driver, it will only extract the driver files to
<path>. After the extraction is completed, the driver
files can be found in <path>\Driver.

(If you have access to a windows machine, VM,..., the above may be easier. Directly from the readme.txt file on Intel's site).

3. Burn to a disk, USB stick, ...
4. Begin a fresh install of Windows.
5. When it takes you the drive/partitions for installation, click INSTALL DRIVER.*
6. Load the drivers in, then hit REFRESH. Now the disk you want to install to will show up.
7. Select the drive, and continue installing.

* Without these drivers, Windows won't see the port the drive is attached to. Which is why you have to place the drivers in during the installation process.

Hopefully, this will help clear things up.

 

[ncc1701d]

I've since got a trial version of VMWare Fusion. The only way I can extract those files is to use VMWare Fusion and transfer the files to it. nope... just tried that. I get a message saying that my "computer does not meet the minimum requirements for installing this".

As for installing a fresh copy of Windows... ??? I'm running OSX. If I put the vista disc in, nothing is readable.

Too hard. It's not possible. Giving up.

Now it turns out VMWare Fusion can not use 3D Graphics Acceleration because of some issue with ATI. Can't say I'll be buying fusion 2.0 until it can sort that out.

 

[nanofrog]

I've since got a trial version of VMWare Fusion. The only way I can extract those files is to use VMWare Fusion and transfer the files to it. nope... just tried that. I get a message saying that my "computer does not meet the minimum requirements for installing this".

As for installing a fresh copy of Windows... ??? I'm running OSX. If I put the vista disc in, nothing is readable.

Too hard. It's not possible. Giving up.

Now it turns out VMWare Fusion can not use 3D Graphics Acceleration because of some issue with ATI. Can't say I'll be buying fusion 2.0 until it can sort that out.

PM sent.

 

[ncc1701d]

I would just like to write that nanofrog is a true champion.

He (or she?) has taken a great deal of time and patience with me to get what I've been told was impossible by Apple Tech level 1 and 4 different product specialists AND Apple Enterprise support.

But, thanks to nanofrog, my 2.93 Mac Pro Quad is set up with a Raid card (Raid 0) with 4 x 1TB drives. A 5th 1TB drive is connected to the second Superdrive position and is used solely for Windows Vista. It's not using bootcamp, but I just hold down the option key whenever I want to boot in Windows. A drobopro is backing up all the OSX stuff through Time Machine. A UPS will shut the computer down automatically should the power supply be disconnected.

Most of this would not have been possible had it not been for nanofrog.

You've got a PM from me NF, so please allow me to throw something your way as thanks.

 

[nanofrog]

I would just like to write that nanofrog is a true champion.

He (or she?) has taken a great deal of time and patience with me to get what I've been told was impossible by Apple Tech level 1 and 4 different product specialists AND Apple Enterprise support.

But, thanks to nanofrog, my 2.93 Mac Pro Quad is set up with a Raid card (Raid 0) with 4 x 1TB drives. A 5th 1TB drive is connected to the second Superdrive position and is used solely for Windows Vista. It's not using bootcamp, but I just hold down the option key whenever I want to boot in Windows. A drobopro is backing up all the OSX stuff through Time Machine. A UPS will shut the computer down automatically should the power supply be disconnected.

Most of this would not have been possible had it not been for nanofrog.

You've got a PM from me NF, so please allow me to throw something your way as thanks.

I'm glad you've got it up and running. A rather nice feeling to see it all come together and do what it's supposed to, isn't it?

I've also sent another PM on the last question.

 

[ncc1701d]

hi nanofrog. I have finally managed to get inside my mac. In order to get to the area in which the speaker jack enters the computer at the back, I had to remove the bottom front tray. Behind it was a large black board with ... stuff all over it. The back area was cunningly pretty much out of view and blocked by parts of the computer frame. At the front however, there was the below picture.

At the front end, it had the words "front speaker" (and front fan) - which would be fine for me to move the jack from the back to the front when wanting to use windows. I am hoping, however, that it's the same company and driver sets for the rear jack. I've taken many of this board, front and back, but I think this may be the only info needed?

"COMPEQ RU
M11 94V-0
1309"

Thanks again!!

 

[nanofrog]

"COMPEQ RU
M11 94V-0
1309"

Thanks again!!

COMPEQ is the company that made the board, and perhaps assembled it, not the actual chip. They don't have any drivers available either I'm affraid (no links, as they don't sell to the public).

 

[noushy]

Nano, Apple Raid Card

As you recall, I had the apple raid card for my 4 internal SAS drives. I finally gave up on that setup, and splurged for yet another raid card, an Areca 1680xi-16, and a maxupgrades raid conversion kit. Using the kit, I was able to install 4 WD 1tb Black edition drives to the Areca card, and then moved my 4 x 450GB Seagate SAS Cheetah 15k.6 to an external chassis. All works well, and the throughput for the SAS is between 500-600MB/s, the internal SATA Raid0 is closer to 500MB/s. Both much more stable than the Apple raid card/Highpoint 4322 setup. If anyone is interested in an Apple Raid Card for the 2009 Mac Pro, PM me. Mine is flawless and hardly used. Nano any comments on this type of setup, and also issues with internal to external converters/cables. I have had major issues with most of them.

Peace,
Noushy

 

[nanofrog]

As you recall, I had the apple raid card for my 4 internal SAS drives. I finally gave up on that setup, and splurged for yet another raid card, an Areca 1680xi-16, and a maxupgrades raid conversion kit. Using the kit, I was able to install 4 WD 1tb Black edition drives to the Areca card, and then moved my 4 x 450GB Seagate SAS Cheetah 15k.6 to an external chassis. All works well, and the throughput for the SAS is between 500-600MB/s, the internal SATA Raid0 is closer to 500MB/s. Both much more stable than the Apple raid card/Highpoint 4322 setup. If anyone is interested in an Apple Raid Card for the 2009 Mac Pro, PM me. Mine is flawless and hardly used. Nano any comments on this type of setup, and also issues with internal to external converters/cables. I have had major issues with most of them.

Peace,
Noushy

The Areca you're using is one of the best cards around, if it isn't outright.

I'm assuming the Blacks and SAS drives are in separate arrays, but how are the set up; 0 or 5?

And what do you need for cables?
(Avoid the internal to external port converter that fits in a slot in the case. Especially with SATA, as it won't be stable). The cables that go directly from internal ports to external enclosures do work. This for example. Watch the length with SATA, as it's max length is 2.0m non passive (includes all cabling, internal + external).

 

[noushy]

Cables, Areca Card

Nano, currently I have 3 arrays. One for nearline storage (4x2tb WD SATA in Raid5), one for fast work (4 x 450GB SAS Seagate Raid0), and one for day to day stuff, movie clips, etc (4 x 1tb WD BE Raid0). I ultimately want to expand my Raid5 to 8 x 2tb drives and get rid of the SAS drives for now. I will keep the internal array (WD BE) for scratch disk, fast work, etc. The problem with the Areca card is they only make 12 port and higher cards with one external connector. The Mac Pro is ill suited to housing much more than 4 drives. Yes, I know maxupgrades makes brackets and I can cram a few more in the optical bay, but not elegant.

Right now, the boot drive (apple WD 1tb BE) is in the lower optical bay and works well for OS and bootcamp. Originally, I used an internal SFF8087 to SFF8088 pci bracket, a short internal (18inch) SFF8087 to SFF8087 cable, and a 1m SFF8088 to SFF8088 cable from the bracket to the chassis (proavio 8 bay SAS chassis). This failed miserably, multiple errors, drives showing up failed, degraded arrays, and the like. I abandoned this approach, moved the 4 WD BE drives internally, and purchased an SFF8087 to SFF8088 1m custom cable, got rid of the pci bracket adapter, and then used the one external port with this other cable to run 8 channels out. I could have purchased a SAS expander (like the areca one), but that is for another discussion. Is there any other way? It seems Areca makes a great card, but no 4 x SFF8088 external versions.

Peace,
Noushy

 

[nanofrog]

Nano, currently I have 3 arrays. One for nearline storage (4x2tb WD SATA in Raid5), one for fast work (4 x 450GB SAS Seagate Raid0), and one for day to day stuff, movie clips, etc (4 x 1tb WD BE Raid0). I ultimately want to expand my Raid5 to 8 x 2tb drives and get rid of the SAS drives for now. I will keep the internal array (WD BE) for scratch disk, fast work, etc. The problem with the Areca card is they only make 12 port and higher cards with one external connector. The Mac Pro is ill suited to housing much more than 4 drives. Yes, I know maxupgrades makes brackets and I can cram a few more in the optical bay, but not elegant.

You've still got one port on the card yet that you can use for the remaining 4x 2TB units you wish to add to the RAID5, without removing the SAS drives. Any particular reasoning, such as just to keep the ability to just add another set of 4 (future expansion)?

I try to do this, so it's reasonable to me. Especially this soon into using it (MTBR).

Right now, the boot drive (apple WD 1tb BE) is in the lower optical bay and works well for OS and bootcamp. Originally, I used an internal SFF8087 to SFF8088 pci bracket, a short internal (18inch) SFF8087 to SFF8087 cable, and a 1m SFF8088 to SFF8088 cable from the bracket to the chassis (proavio 8 bay SAS chassis). This failed miserably, multiple errors, drives showing up failed, degraded arrays, and the like. I abandoned this approach, moved the 4 WD BE drives internally, and purchased an SFF8087 to SFF8088 1m custom cable, got rid of the pci bracket adapter, and then used the one external port with this other cable to run 8 channels out. I could have purchased a SAS expander (like the areca one), but that is for another discussion. Is there any other way? It seems Areca makes a great card, but no 4 x SFF8088 external versions.

Peace,
Noushy

Those PCI bracket parts are just too problematic for SATA (not tried it with SAS, but it does run at a higher voltage, and may fare better). So the only thing you can do with that card, is to continue to use the SFF-8087 to SFF-8088 cables you're using currently, without going the SAS expander route off the single SFF-8088 on the card.

Atto does a tad better in this regard (models with more SFF-8088 ports), but they're more expensive, and they only have one hybrid. That particular card, is an 8 port model, so hybrid operation (8 int, 8 ext, or 4+4 operation only) is still the same as what you've got now. The others are either internal or external only. So you'd loose the internal array on the card, or still have to run internal to external cables.

Given the cost difference, the ARC-1680 series makes more sense. And you get the ability to upgrade the cache if you choose as well (you can't on any Atto models ).

 

[noushy]

External ports (Nano)

Nano, thanks for the advice, you are quite right as to available ports. I have 2 remaining internal ports left (1st one for the internal array, 4th one for the external SAS array, external port for the 4x2tb SATA drives), and the cable seems to work for now. I just wish the bracket would work. The reason I would eliminate the SAS array, is that my PROAVIO chassis has only 8 bays. I would have to add another enclosure for more drives.

I have also looked at the CINERAID CR8020E (basically an Areca 8020-16 SAS expander), in a great rackmount 16bay chassis, and although this would not have the bandwidth of separate channels, still very solid. I used to have Atto SCSI cards, and they worked great on my older powermacs. I would love to find a card with 3 or 4 SFF8088 external connectors. I still have the hpt RR4322 which has 2 external SFF8088 connectors as well in the machine.

Peace,
Noushy

 

[nanofrog]

Nano, thanks for the advice, you are quite right as to available ports. I have 2 remaining internal ports left (1st one for the internal array, 4th one for the external SAS array, external port for the 4x2tb SATA drives), and the cable seems to work for now. I just wish the bracket would work. The reason I would eliminate the SAS array, is that my PROAVIO chassis has only 8 bays. I would have to add another enclosure for more drives.

I have also looked at the CINERAID CR8020E (basically an Areca 8020-16 SAS expander), in a great rackmount 16bay chassis, and although this would not have the bandwidth of separate channels, still very solid. I used to have Atto SCSI cards, and they worked great on my older powermacs. I would love to find a card with 3 or 4 SFF8088 external connectors. I still have the hpt RR4322 which has 2 external SFF8088 connectors as well in the machine.

Peace,
Noushy

Hmm...16 ports via SFF-8088.

There's a non-RAID card by Atto (ExpressSAS H6F0) out already. A RAID variant will be, but not just yet. If you have the luxury of waiting, it may be an option.

Given Atto's already hit the market (PCIe 2.0 & 6.0Gb/s per port), Areca may introduce a new line/models, but I've not seen anything so far.

Are you in a hurry, or do you have the luxury of time?