RAID setup 2009 Mac Pro

[HighSeasCaptain]

Actually the thread title is misleading, since I plan on configuring this setup in a 2010 12-core Mac Pro once (if ever) it is released. I'm really eager to configure everything now. Given that the basic configuration and compatibilities of the 2010 Mac Pro will stay the same, I am wondering if this RAID setup will work.

Please note that I do need this amount of speed for my line of work (video editing in 4K and higher) so please reserve comments about the necessity of such a setup.

I have searched high and low for the configuration I am about to present. Since I have not found anyone with this specific setup (I have only seen similar setups in 2008 MP's and earlier with the usage of iPass cables), I really need to know if I'm making the right buys.

First, I will be installing 4 1TB Samsung F3's in the 4 hard drive trays and putting them in RAID 0 through software RAID. These drives will create 1 volume for my scratch disc and storage for demanding editing projects. (I will be using a 4TB external drive for Time Machine to back this up).

Next, I will be installing a RocketRaid 4321. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816115066&Tpk=rocketraid 4321 From this I will use a mini-SAS to 4-SATA to connect to 4 128GB Patriot Torqx SSD's for RAID 0. These 4 SSDs will be mounted in this enclosure in the lower optical bay: http://www.addonics.com/products/raid_system/ae4rcs25nsa.asp This will be my OS volume. Additionally, the 4321 has the external mini-SAS which can be used for a mini-SAS to 4-eSATA cable, which makes my heart jump for joy.

Additionally, I will be adding a 5th Torqx drive to connect to the SATA ODD for Bootcamp. I don't know yet where I'm going to put it in the case, but I'll find somewhere to place it with some velcro or double sided tape as it's an SSD and you can do such things with them.

In the upper optical bay I will have a Blu-Ray burner. The problem I'm foreseeing is that the SATA+Power connecters that run from the Logicboard to the optical bays are attached to one another (I think they're called 22pin SATA connectors?), so in order to separate the power from the SATA and still make the SATA usable, I will use a SATA power Y splitter: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...re=sata_power_splitter-_-12-200-161-_-Product
I will also need one of these to power the Backplane: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16812816038
And I will also need a female-to-male SATA connector so that the 2nd ODD SATA can be used for the Bootcamp drive: http://www.opentip.com/Electronics-Computers/Cablestobuy-Ft-Sata-Male-To-Female-Cable-p-1061287.html.

Am I missing anything? Am I overthinking? Are there any simpler methods?

This is the only way I've found to connect 9 hard drives internally including a Blu-Ray drive.

Thank you in advance!

 

[surflordca]

If you are going to spend that kind of money, take a look at this...

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/hard-drives/RAID/Desktop/#raidlevels

 

[HighSeasCaptain]

That isn't really what I need, since something like that is external and only connects via eSATA and the like, so I'm limited to 3gbit/s

Though that is precisely what I'll use if I need to cut a feature.

 

[Transporteur]

Your setup is well-concieved, but I've got some notes on it.

First issue I recognise is your choice of SSDs. I'd recommend Intel SSDs. They are a little pricy but not only faster for reading than any other SSD on the market, the are more reliable when using them with a hardware RAID controller.

I can't tell you anything about the RocketRaid controller, but I'm absolutely sure that nanofrog will post something about it. He's the storage expert in this forum.

Getting five SATA cables plus power in the ODD bay is not really easy, but since I've done it myself with 4 I can give you some advice.
First make sure that the cables for the RAID card are at least 1m long. Everything below that won't reach the ODD bay.
COnsidering that the gap between the PCI and the ODD bay is pretty small, the cables should be as thin as possible.
The power connectors you suggested should work, even though connecting the female SATA connector plus the y-cable for power could get pretty tight.

I use a backplane extension cable and added a second power connector to it. That definitely works, requires a little DIY though.

 

[HighSeasCaptain]

Thank you, Transporteur!

I've heard some really good things about the Patriot Torqx, even being better than the Intel SSD's now. I'll do some more research into it.

I chose the RocketRaid 4321 because it's the only RAID controller for the 2009 Mac Pro I could find that was bootable and also had the capability of eSATA within the card. What other alternatives do you know of, or do you think may be better?

With that extension cable, how do you get the SATA connection off of it without a female SATA connector if you're splitting the power? Sorry, I'm just a bit confused at how this piece is implemented

Thank you for all the advice!

 

[Transporteur]

I chose the RocketRaid 4321 because it's the only RAID controller for the 2009 Mac Pro I could find that was bootable and also had the capability of eSATA within the card. What other alternatives do you know of, or do you think may be better?

Please wait for nanofrog to answer is question. He definitely can answer all your questions concerning appropriate RAID cards for booting OS X.

With that extension cable, how do you get the SATA connection off of it without a female SATA connector if you're splitting the power? Sorry, I'm just a bit confused at how this piece is implemented

The cable I suggest is a simple extension cable for the connectors in the ODD bay, but if you cut only the power wires and add one or more SATA power connectors to it, you can both re-use the SATA connection and get your required additional power.
I used some of these cables.

Simply cut off the molex connector and solder the SATA connector to the extension cable.

I only have this picture that shows the cable, I hope that's ok.

 

[HighSeasCaptain]

Oh I see, very very cool. It simplifies what I'm trying to do into one easy splitter cable. I would love to do this, however I have no soldering experience and no soldering iron, and modifications like this really scare me (I know, this is very simple, but still!).

I'll patiently await a response from nanofrog

 

[VirtualRain]

This thread is not officially underway until Nanofrog posts, but this sounds like an absolutely wicked setup.

I wonder if you could get by with smaller SSD's? 4x60 or 4x80 would be more than enough for OS/Apps and even a modest media project.

What about backup?! With all your project work on a RAID0 array you need a solid backup strategy. Have you considered RAID10 for your large drives as a bit of added insurance from drive failure?

 

[HighSeasCaptain]

this sounds like an absolutely wicked setup.

I wonder if you could get by with smaller SSD's? 4x60 or 4x80 would be more than enough for OS/Apps and even a modest media project.

What about backup?! With all your project work on a RAID0 array you need a solid backup strategy. Have you considered RAID10 for your large drives as a bit of added insurance from drive failure?

Thanks man! I'm so looking forward to it, you have no idea Well, I'm going for those Torqx's because, to my knowledge from a few articles I've read, the 128GB Torqx's are the fastest SSD's you can buy (outside of the OCZ Colossus series which are way too insanely expensive) and I want the fastest setup I can get. Unless I'm going to be hitting a data cap with drives this fast in RAID 0, or if you can suggest drives of that size for a better price at 260mb/s read and 180mb/s write, I think I'm going to stick with the Torqx.

For my 4TB array, I'm going to have an external 4TB drive hooked up by either eSATA or FW800 with Time Machine. For the OS drives, I really don't care if the array fails. I don't mind spending a few hours re-installing everything, because whenever that happens it gives me an excuse to clear my system and get it to optimal performance again. I'm considering using the hard drive that ships with the Mac Pro as a backup system HD (with everything pre-configured and ready to go) to swap in in the event a drive dies and I have an immediate need to use FCP or something. I NEVER have and NEVER will save anything important on my system HD, everything important always is allocated to some external drive that has a dedicated backup drive.

 

[VirtualRain]

Thanks man! I'm so looking forward to it, you have no idea Well, I'm going for those Torqx's because, to my knowledge from a few articles I've read, the 128GB Torqx's are the fastest SSD's you can buy (outside of the OCZ Colossus series which are way too insanely expensive) and I want the fastest setup I can get. Unless I'm going to be hitting a data cap with drives this fast in RAID 0, or if you can suggest drives of that size for a better price at 260mb/s read and 180mb/s write, I think I'm going to stick with the Torqx.

For my 4TB array, I'm going to have an external 4TB drive hooked up by either eSATA or FW800 with Time Machine. For the OS drives, I really don't care if the array fails. I don't mind spending a few hours re-installing everything, because whenever that happens it gives me an excuse to clear my system and get it to optimal performance again. I'm considering using the hard drive that ships with the Mac Pro as a backup system HD (with everything pre-configured and ready to go) to swap in in the event a drive dies and I have an immediate need to use FCP or something. I NEVER have and NEVER will save anything important on my system HD, everything important always is allocated to some external drive that has a dedicated backup drive.

I see. Makes sense. Just so you aren't disappointed, you should find out what the throughput limit is on the 4321 card. I know with my old Areca 1210, the most it could handle was about 500MB/s which could be saturated by just a pair of good SSD's. Hopefully the RocketRaid is better than that.

 

[nanofrog]

I've heard some really good things about the Patriot Torqx, even being better than the Intel SSD's now. I'll do some more research into it.

From what I've read, the newer OCZ drives are worth taking a good look at. Not sure on the Torx, but definitely the Colossus (which I do realize are out of budget - they are pricey), and perhaps the Vertex 2's (I've not followed them in detail, but research is free ).

I chose the RocketRaid 4321 because it's the only RAID controller for the 2009 Mac Pro I could find that was bootable and also had the capability of eSATA within the card. What other alternatives do you know of, or do you think may be better?

If you ONLY will ever run 4x drives from it, it's a good card to consider (it's only a 4 port card, so if you ever wanted to expand the member quantity, you'd need an 8 port or larger card).

You do need to check the HDD Compatibility list (.pdf file) to make sure your drives will work though, as it's a SAS card, and they're super picky about it (they usually only work with enterprise drives).

The list does NOT cover many, and aren't the most recent drives out there. That said, Areca's do work with Intel's (since they design and manufacture Highpoint's 43xx cards), and it should work with more than the X25-E model listed on Highpoint's page. But there's no OCZ drives listed for the 4xxx cards, so you'd be a guinea pig if you try them. You could also call, as it's toll free (why not).

Other brands that offer models that will boot OS X are Areca and Atto Technologies. Areca actually is the ODM supplier for the RR43xx models for Highpoint. They do cost more (not too much so for the Areca's if you're looking at the right models), but have additional features (that you don't need for running a stripe set).

Atto has an easier interface, but always cost more than the Areca's, and is why I don't recommend them nearly as often. But the price increase gives you better support too, as you can use a phone, rather than just email. Areca is based in Taiwan, and international phone calls may be too much hassle and expense (their support personnel do know what they're doing though).

Highpoint's support SUCKS, so that is a trade off for the price.

The cable I suggest is a simple extension cable for the connectors in the ODD bay...

I'd go for the backplane extention cable and a Molex splitter. Then use crimp connectors since HighSeasCaptain doesn't have a soldering iron or the confidence to try. Such connectors are inexpensive (crimp tools can be had inexpensively too), and are easily found in any auto parts store, Wal*Mart, and others (example).

Thanks man! I'm so looking forward to it, you have no idea Well, I'm going for those Torqx's because, to my knowledge from a few articles I've read, the 128GB Torqx's are the fastest SSD's you can buy (outside of the OCZ Colossus series which are way too insanely expensive) and I want the fastest setup I can get. Unless I'm going to be hitting a data cap with drives this fast in RAID 0, or if you can suggest drives of that size for a better price at 260mb/s read and 180mb/s write, I think I'm going to stick with the Torqx.

Call Highpoint to see if those drives will work, as the SSD Compatibility List does NOT show ANY OCZ SSD's verified as operational with that card.

See above for further details.

For my 4TB array, I'm going to have an external 4TB drive hooked up by either eSATA or FW800 with Time Machine.

I'm glad to see you realize that you do need a proper backup system for this setup.

 

[nanofrog]

I see. Makes sense. Just so you aren't disappointed, you should find out what the throughput limit is on the 4321 card. I know with my old Areca 1210, the most it could handle was about 500MB/s which could be saturated by just a pair of good SSD's. Hopefully the RocketRaid is better than that.

Sorry I missed this one, but it actually took me some time to get the post typed out and checked that it's correct.

The Highpoint card uses a 1.2GHz dual core processor (the Areca 1680ixX models use the same 348 series IOP). The ARC-1210 uses a 333MHz 333 series IOP, and is only a single core model (all are Intel BTW). So there's a BIG difference between the IOP's used, and why there's a cost difference (more in the Areca models, but the Highpoint is cut down from the ARC-1680 series as well).

The RR43xx are essentially a hybrid of the ARC-1212/1222 models (stripped down compared to the 1680's) with the faster IOP used in the 1680ix series (some of the other 1680's use an 800MHz version).

 

[HighSeasCaptain]

Wow nanofrog, thank you so much for the information. A bit overwhelming for me to entirely digest right now. So I'm going to ask a few questions if that's okay...

Since there won't be physically any more space left inside the case of the MP, I'm pretty content with just the 4 SATA ports. By utilizing these 4 internal SATA ports, I'll still have full access to the external eSATA ports from a mini-SAS to eSATA cable, correct?

Can you recommend any specific models you might consider better or worthy alternatives? Or do you think the 4321 is a solid choice?

Also, I don't see why the Torqx's won't work in a 0 array. I had no idea that there was such a thing as hard drive incompatibilities with a RAID controller (except for WD Black's). Is it possible that, if the hardware RAID won't configure properly with these drives, I can just JBOD them and configure a software RAID in OS X to bypass any such compatibilities? Or do the drive incompatibilities exist even without the presence of a hardware RAID? I've purchased a lot of hardware in the past, mixing and matching models that were not on any list of compatibility/incompatibility and I just figured that the non-presence of the drives I wanted to buy was just the nature of the computing world (since it is ever-changing and manufacturers don't always add everything to the list).

Really, all I want/need is a good card with the ability to stripe 4 SSD's (with appropriate data bandwidth for such beasts) and also have eSATA connectivity. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[nanofrog]

Since there won't be physically any more space left inside the case of the MP, I'm pretty content with just the 4 SATA ports. By utilizing these 4 internal SATA ports, I'll still have full access to the external eSATA ports from a mini-SAS to eSATA cable, correct?

You've lost me with the MiniSAS to eSATA cable.

The 4321 is only a 4 port card, and all will be consumed by the SSD's. The 4 ports on the logic board (HDD bays) will be difficult to use, but not possible with this specific cable, as the SATA ports are soldered directly to the logic board (unlike the '06 - '08 systems that did use a MiniSAS port = SFF-8087).

Can you recommend any specific models you might consider better or worthy alternatives? Or do you think the 4321 is a solid choice?

Do you need more than 4 ports?

Given what you want to do, and assuming you only need 4 ports, the 4321 is the best choice, as that card can handle the bandwidth given the 1.2GHz processor and 8 lane design.

Others to look at however:
Areca:
ARC-1212/ARC-1222 (800MHz IOP) ~$100USD more than the Highpoint cards, but offer additional features
ARC-1680ix12/16/24 (1200MHz IOP), and has additional features beyond the 1212/1222 (these are definitely more expensive - start at ~$700USD)

I won't list the Atto's, as they're more expensive than the Areca's.

Also, I don't see why the Torqx's won't work in a 0 array. I had no idea that there was such a thing as hard drive incompatibilities with a RAID controller (except for WD Black's). Is it possible that, if the hardware RAID won't configure properly with these drives, I can just JBOD them and configure a software RAID in OS X to bypass any such compatibilities? Or do the drive incompatibilities exist even without the presence of a hardware RAID? I've purchased a lot of hardware in the past, mixing and matching models that were not on any list of compatibility/incompatibility and I just figured that the non-presence of the drives I wanted to buy was just the nature of the computing world (since it is ever-changing and manufacturers don't always add everything to the list).

It's to do with the firmware.

There are differences with consumer drives and enterprise drives (which are designed for RAID cards). There's more between mechanical than SSD, but the gist of it is in the recovery timings.

Consumer models use 0,0 (seconds, read & write respectively), and enterprise models use 7,0 settings. The reason is because a RAID card takes over all the functions that the system does with drives attached to it's on-board SATA ports. Because RAID is multiple members and is handled differently than it is under the OS, the timings had to be adjusted. Without this change, they're too unstable (constant drop-outs = drives there one moment, gone the next and forces a rebuild).

Please understand, the values listed above are for mechanical drives. SSD's are new tech, and I don't know if there adjusting the values for them to function in RAID, but it seems likely, given how the cards work. There's still a bit of a learning curve here, and even more reason they need to be tested thoroughly.

The Torqx drives would be fine on the logic board, but you'd be throttled by the ICH before you ever reached throughput levels those drives are capable of (ICH hits the wall at ~660MB/s). Let's assume they're capable of 250MB/s per disk, you'd be capable of 1GB/s using 4x of them. So scratch the ICH for your SSD throughput needs. It's fine for mechanical though.

So you're left with using a card, as you seem to be aware of. Granted a stripe set isn't that complicated, it's still controlled by the card with the setup you're interested in, and need to be tested with the card. That's why you want to get something the manufacturer tested and verified as functional. They do the work for you (saves time, massive aggravation, and money due to returns).

So unless they tell you over the phone the Torqx drives are fine, they're OUT. And you want to speak with one of the engineers, not the usual suspects that initially answer the phone, as they likely don't have access to that information (i.e. tested & passed, but not yet updated the information to either the .pdf document linked <note they're typically dated>, or the main support staffers). Remember, Highpoint's support isn't that great (seems to be a massive communication problem, as they have to get the information from their ODM sources). But I think they do some in-house testing on the upper end models (3xxx series and up).

Really, all I want/need is a good card with the ability to stripe 4 SSD's (with appropriate data bandwidth for such beasts) and also have eSATA connectivity. Nothing more, nothing less.

RAID cards are NOT really designed for eSATA. That's the realm of Fake RAID controllers (i.e. eSATA cards that use drivers and system resources to perform all calculations).

So you'd be best to get a good hardware RAID card and a separate eSATA card and run it in one of the 4x lane slots. There's not a lot of cards available, and their prices vary widely.

You also have to take into consideration whether or not you want it to support Port Mulitplier enclosures. The cheapest card (SIL3132 based) does support PM enclosures (2 port card), and can operate up to 10 drives (5 per port is PM's limit). Enclosures aren't too bad in price either, and you can use consumer drives (i.e. the Samsung F3's if you wish, though I'd still recommend WD, as it has a higher Unrecoverable Bit Error rate of 1E15 vs. 1E14 more common on consumer drives).

 

[VirtualRain]

Wow nanofrog, thank you so much for the information. A bit overwhelming for me to entirely digest right now. So I'm going to ask a few questions if that's okay...

I did mention that this thread was not officially underway until Nanofrog posted... didn't I?

 

[HighSeasCaptain]

nanofrog, I'm in an extreme hurry right now and I can only reply to the first topic you presented....

What I'm talking about with the mini-SAS to eSATA is that there are 2 mini-SAS connectors on the card. One internal, one external. Newegg, as well as OWC list it as:
External Ports 4 x SAS
Internal Connectors 4 x SAS

The one internal will be dedicated to the SSDs, and the external one will be dedicated to eSATA drives. If you look at the card closely, you'll see there are the 2 mini-SAS ports.

Other than that, I can't sit and really digest everything you've written to me (I will post more later tomorrow), and I just want to say THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for all of your amazing help!

And this may seem like a retarded question, but what is the ethernet port parallel to the external mini-SAS port on the back of the card for?

 

[DoFoT9]

I'm glad to see you realize that you do need a proper backup system for this setup.

should we recommend a 2nd backup that involves cloning (that is possibly on the same drive)??

And this may seem like a retarded question, but what is the ethernet port parallel to the external mini-SAS port on the back of the card for?

no question is too retarted it is an RJ-45 connector for an ethernet cable to plug directly into, i guess to connect a device directly via a networking protocol to the rocket card? (help please nano! haha).

 

[Transporteur]

What I'm talking about with the mini-SAS to eSATA is that there are 2 mini-SAS connectors on the card. One internal, one external. Newegg, as well as OWC list it as:
External Ports 4 x SAS
Internal Connectors 4 x SAS

The one internal will be dedicated to the SSDs, and the external one will be dedicated to eSATA drives. If you look at the card closely, you'll see there are the 2 mini-SAS ports.

According to the Highpoint site for the 4321, it should indeed support 8 drives. But let's wait for nanofrog, I'm sure he knows better than we do.

Intel IOP348 (1.2GHz)
Up to 512MB DDR-II Memory
PCI-Express x8
1 external and 1 internal mini-SAS/SATA 3Gb/s Device connectors
Up to 8 SAS/SATA Hard Drives 128 max hard drives via SAS expanders

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

Sleep issues are documented with RocketRAID. I have the 4320 and sleep support is hit and miss. Sometimes it won't wake from sleep, other times it will. Sometimes it will prevent your Mac Pro from sleeping altogether. I went through so many hoops to get Highpoint to recognize the issue, and their solution was that "it will need a firmware update". That was three months ago and no firmware was updated.

The price and performance of the Highpoint products is great, but they have some issues with Snow Leopard that apparently they aren't in a big hurry to resolve. I would stay away from this product until they fix their Snow Leopard issues.

 

[nanofrog]

What I'm talking about with the mini-SAS to eSATA is that there are 2 mini-SAS connectors on the card. One internal, one external. Newegg, as well as OWC list it as:
External Ports 4 x SAS
Internal Connectors 4 x SAS

The one internal will be dedicated to the SSDs, and the external one will be dedicated to eSATA drives. If you look at the card closely, you'll see there are the 2 mini-SAS ports.

OK. I didn't realize that you wanted to use the external port.

Keep in mind, there is a SFF-8088 to 4e*SATA cable, but it's NOT actually meant for portable drives if that's what you're using (due to the fact the ports have to be configured on the card either through the web interface or firmware).

So it WILL NOT work like a normal eSATA card, and just swap drives. You need to put a drive on, set it (Pass-through = single drive mode or RAID; once RAID is established on any port, you CANNOT use JBOD = concatenated (appears as one logical drive, but throughput is that of a single drive) so keep that in mind as well), and leave it alone.

But if you do it, you'd need to use a 4 bay external enclosure that has 4x eSATA ports on the back (the card will NOT work with Port Multiplier enclosures). These seem to be getting harder to find.

And there's a better solution anyway.
SFF-8088 to SFF-8088 cable
4 bay MiniSAS enclosure (single SFF-8088 connector on the back, and they latch). BTW, the enclosure linked also comes in silver. Sans Digital also sells one (also available in silver), so go with the best price. I'd check provantage.com (I use them, and they're good to deal with). ewiz.com is a good source too, particularly for Areca cards (but you have to watch the return policy as some are non-returnable, and check often, as they cycle through stock fast).

Note: Keep the cable length to 1.0 meter. No more, as it will be unstable with SATA drives. SAS can go with up to 8.0 meters due to the higher voltages used (20V DC for SAS, 600mV max for SATA; BIG difference, and why SATA signals can't go that far without degrading = unstable).

BTW, you need a SFF-8087 to 4i*SATA cable to get from the internal port to the SSD's as well (it's available at pc-pitstop, but there wasn't a link I could isolate it to to have it's own page - they're also a bit cheaper $27USD, and with the external cable, it makes better sense with shipping). The fact this cable is NOT included with the card is one of the reasons it's as inexpensive as it is. Areca includes one per port for internal connectors. External, you're always on your own, unless it's a kit.

I just want to say THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for all of your amazing help!

NP.

And this may seem like a retarded question, but what is the ethernet port parallel to the external mini-SAS port on the back of the card for?

It's for Remote Management, email alerts (SNMP) and NTP server (time servers for accurate reporting).

Make sure you give it it's own Ethernet port on the router or switch, because there are problems if you attach it to the second port on the back of the Mac Pro (NTP server access is what's affected = not DHCP).

should we recommend a 2nd backup that involves cloning (that is possibly on the same drive)??

Possible via a partition (i.e. partition 1 = clone, partition 2 = backup files). Not the best solution for extreme paranoid users though, as there's the possiblility the backup will go, and take both the clone and the backup files in partition 2.

But for most purposes, it's a valid solution. I do it myself (but I've enough disks, the clone is for one OS, the backup files are for another). That way I've enough "pieces" I can survive without a total loss (assuming the primaries are actually intact and operational). If that's not the case, I'd be screwed myself, and it's likely the result of the system PSU died and took stuff with it.

Sleep issues are documented with RocketRAID. I have the 4320 and sleep support is hit and miss. Sometimes it won't wake from sleep, other times it will. Sometimes it will prevent your Mac Pro from sleeping altogether. I went through so many hoops to get Highpoint to recognize the issue, and their solution was that "it will need a firmware update". That was three months ago and no firmware was updated.

The price and performance of the Highpoint products is great, but they have some issues with Snow Leopard that apparently they aren't in a big hurry to resolve. I would stay away from this product until they fix their Snow Leopard issues.

Sleep is ALWAYS a problem with RAID cards, and I'm not accustomed to them ever working with sleep. I always have to disable the sleep function, and only allow the monitor to sleep, then shut down.

The reason is the card takes over control of the drives from the OS. There is a feature on some cards (Areca and the RR43xx have it), called MAID. It allows you to set a timer where the drives will spin down after a user set time limit. The CPU/s stay active, but with thier own power management, it's not too bad as far as power consumption these days (i.e. Nehalem's features, which the OP will be getting a new systems shortly - Nehalem or Gulftown).

SL has caused problems with multiple cards (specifically stability issues with 10.6.2, with cards including Areca, Highpoint, and Apple's own POS). So unless you elaborate, I can't go much further. I do know Highpoint's a PITA to get EFI firmware from or knowledgeable staff (not properly trainedd IMO, as everything is ODM'ed). To me, you get what you pay for, so there will almost certainly be more aggravation with Highpoint IMO.

 

[HighSeasCaptain]

nanofrog, all I can say is thank you so much. I think I know every detail of every purchase I need to make. You really made a lot of things clear that I had no other way of knowing. So, again, THANK YOU!!!!

The X25-E is a worthy alternative anyhow. I think I'll just get that (even though the price per gigabyte is INSANE in comparison -- the 32GB drive is $20 more expensive than the Torqx 128GB drive, which is faster!!!).

Now all I have to do is hope that the 2010 MP's will have the same compatibilities

 

[nanofrog]

nanofrog, all I can say is thank you so much. I think I know every detail of every purchase I need to make. You really made a lot of things clear that I had no other way of knowing. So, again, THANK YOU!!!!

NP. That's what forums are for.

Now you're in a position to help pass on that information to others (especially as you learn how the card works and what to do when there's a failure). Always a catch...

The X25-E is a worthy alternative anyhow. I think I'll just get that (even though the price per gigabyte is INSANE in comparison -- the 32GB drive is $20 more expensive than the Torqx 128GB drive, which is faster!!!).

The Areca's work with the X25-M's as well, so the Highpoint should also since Areca designed and manufactured it.

Keep in mind, that it's impossible for them to test every single drive ever made (too much time and expense). As they're meant for enterprise use (general expectations for RAID cards, though Highpoint does test more consumer drives than other manufacturers), they primarily stick with enterprise drives which have far fewer models than the consumer lines.

You can test the Torqx yourself if you wish as well. Get a pair, and see if you can create a stable stripe set of them. TEST them thoroughly. If all goes well, you can get the second pair of drives, and include them in the set.

Just keep in mind, if they don't work, you lose time and money (returns = restocking fees + S/H both ways). So it's up to you, but I've the impression once you get your hands on a system, you're going to be in a hurry.

Please understand that whatever you do, TEST the drives first, then the array (includes failure testing such as pulling drives, pulling power,... as applicable to the level used). ALWAYS. With mechanical, that means run a surface scan prior to creating any arrays to make sure you don't have drives that are bad or likely to go bad rather quickly. RAID is abusive to drives compared to single disk use.

Also, get a UPS. It's not really an option when dealing with RAID. A stripe set isn't in as much danger as other levels, but it's a good thing to have, as it not only covers you during a power outage, but in day-to-day use, it protects you agains brown-outs (low voltage conditions off the wall AC, which are common and cause more damage than you may ever imagine).

Get a good surge suppressor as well (if you don't already have one equal to the task), as the included suppressor circuit in a consumer UPS is junk (about 1/10th of what you need - ~4k Joules <or better if you can swing/find it>).

Connect the surge suppressor to the wall, then the UPS to the surge suppressor. Only run the bare minimum off of the UPS (system, monitor, and backup enclosure). Keeping the load as low as possible gives you more run time in a power outage to make sure you shut down safely (batteries wear with age = time decreases; figure 3 yrs before they need to be replaced).

Now all I have to do is hope that the 2010 MP's will have the same compatibilities

We won't know for sure what the internals are (I expect it to be the same board, but if they're different, the adapter needed to use the HDD bays may not work). The RAID card will work however, and as the OS is the same, so will the drivers. It's updates that you have to be careful of, and I'd recommend skipping 10.6.2 (or at least make a clone of 10.6.1 prior to installing 10.6.2). This goes for firmware as well (card and system), and it's a general rule (OS updates + firmware) that applies to any RAID card.

Watch forums such as MR and the manufacturer support sites before installing to see if there's any reported problems.

 

[HighSeasCaptain]

nanofrog, again, I am insanely impressed at your methodology and level of detail. All of your advice and tips are invaluable and I will surely heed every last detail.

I just contacted Patriot Memory tech support and asked about compatibility with the RR 4321. The guy I spoke to said I couldn't speak to engineering directly, but he's going to forward an e-mail I wrote to him regarding the conversation to the engineering department. Let's hope I get a valuable response. I'll keep you updated!

 

[Transporteur]

Sleep is ALWAYS a problem with RAID cards, and I'm not accustomed to them ever working with sleep. I always have to disable the sleep function, and only allow the monitor to sleep, then shut down.

Sorry for interrupting you guys, but that statement actually makes me a little nervous.
I'm about to buy a proper RAID card myself (preferably the ARC 1212 as it won't max out at 500MB/s like the 1210), but did I get you right nanofrog, as soon as I install the card (and of course run my boot drive(s) from it), the PC won't sleep properly any more?

 

[nanofrog]

nanofrog, again, I am insanely impressed at your methodology and level of detail. All of your advice and tips are invaluable and I will surely heed every last detail.

I just contacted Patriot Memory tech support and asked about compatibility with the RR 4321. The guy I spoke to said I couldn't speak to engineering directly, but he's going to forward an e-mail I wrote to him regarding the conversation to the engineering department. Let's hope I get a valuable response. I'll keep you updated!

You'd be wise to contact Highpoint about it as well, as it's possible that they've tested the drives, but have yet to update the list. Worth a shot IMO.

Either way, I wish you luck, as my research (though limited), gives me the impression OCZ's newer drives are worthwhile, generally speaking (single drive use; no idea how they'd behave under RAID - I'd want to be able to test them myself).

Sorry for interrupting you guys, but that statement actually makes me a little nervous.
I'm about to buy a proper RAID card myself (preferably the ARC 1212 as it won't max out at 500MB/s like the 1210), but did I get you right nanofrog, as soon as I install the card (and of course run my boot drive(s) from it), the PC won't sleep properly any more?

Unfortunately, you understand correctly. It won't be able to sleep as the default settings exist.

It has to do with the fact that the card has TOTAL control over the drives rather than the OS (SATA ports on the logic board). As a result, the sleep function doesn't take into consideration any 3rd party devices for drive access. You can get around it by adjusting the sleep parameters (i.e. disabling it, and only set the monitor to sleep, then shut off after some user determined period of time).

Think of it this way. RAID cards are PCIe based in MP's (applies to other buses as well). The card sees the PCIe bus power "hiccup", and dumps the firmware. So the card is no longer initialized. Hence if you move the mouse or hit the keyboard, the system will KP/BSOD if the array is a boot device, or if the OS disk is separate, not have access to the array. The only way to regain access, is to do a proper restart.

There have been exceptions, but it's inconsistent and actually a result in a flaw in the sleep function IMO (i.e. PCIe bus isn't put into sleep mode). AFAIK, there's no indication of standards being created between OS developers and RAID card manufacturers, as it's presumed that systems with such cards will be active 24/7, and there's no perceived need.

I can assure you that the ARC-1212/1222 or any of the 1680 series will have a problem with sleep (Windows, OS X, or Linux). So disable it, and only sleep the monitor, or shut the system down if you're going to be away from it for awhile (say 8 hrs+), and there's not a batch process running (i.e. set one up, and let it go while you're away - such as watching TV or actually asleep yourself).