RAID0 moving to SSD + RAID0

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by Mac Husky, Dec 16, 2011.

  1. Mac Husky macrumors regular

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    #1
    I am going to put a SSD in my MacPro early 2009 the next days. Crucial M4 128 is already on it's way.

    Working with a RAID0 I had some problems with the installation of Lion some weeks ago. Although it works right now, I decided to get an SSD to put Lion on there. And do so for all of my software, also.

    I want to hold the RAID0 for all of my data using Bay 2-4 and change the HDD in bay into a SSD. So far so good. But what would be the best way to move OSX and other software from the HDD on the SSD?

    Option 1: Installing Lion from disk and using carbon copy cloner for software
    Option 2: Installing Lion from disk and using Time Machine after that
    Option 3: No fresh Lion on SSD, but clone HDD on SSD completely

    Using Option 3 I would have to move my data back to HDD after that.

    Any other option?

    What did or would you do or prefer?
    Any suggestions or important points?

    Thx a lot.
     
  2. Loa macrumors 65816

    Loa

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    #2
    Hello,

    I'd use CCC to copy all the OS + apps (+all the invisible OS files) to your SSD. Simple as that.

    If you don't want your Users Home folders on the SSD, it's a little trickier, but doable. After that clone (everything except the Users folder), create a new user with the name you used to have. Then, using Account preferences (in System prefs), option-click on the name of your user to go to advance prefs, and point your home folder to it's old location on your RAID0. Restart.

    Loa
     
  3. Mac Husky thread starter macrumors regular

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    #3
    Thx.

    Is it better - for some reason- not to have the user folders on the SSD?

    Would it be easier or better to clone only OSX and apps to SSD and let the data on the RAID0? Or does it result the same?!
     
  4. Loa macrumors 65816

    Loa

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    #4
    Hello,

    I like to keep my data in my user folder, and doing that on a SSD would mean I'd have to buy at least a 512GB SSD.

    If you don't mind having next to no data in your Home folder, and all of it on another drive, then no problem.

    Loa
     
  5. dolphin842 macrumors 65816

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    #5
    To maximize perceived snappiness, you want to put anything associated with the boot process and app launching on the SSD. Ideally, that would mean system files and applications, as well as your User/Library (where your application preferences and support are located), User/Desktop, wallpaper, etc.

    Of course this does mean that your data is split among two volumes. I'd take a look through your user folder hierarchy and see if there is a compromise that makes sense for your situation. I have an SSD on the way to so I'm examining this as well. For me, there is a relatively simple dividing line between small-file-size projects (programming, writing, etc) and larger audio/video-style projects, so pushing the latter onto an external isn't a big deal.
     
  6. Mac Husky thread starter macrumors regular

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    #6
    Of course, data is in the user folders. Did not even think about that last night :rolleyes: Sorry for that. I want to have my data seperated on the RAID0 or a different medium than the SSD. As well thinking about going back from my RAID0 out of three HDDs to 3 single HDDs, when OSX and apps do not work there any longer. On the other hand data on a RAID0 should be utilized sigificantly faster (bigger fotos for example) what would mean to stay with the RAID0 for data stuff?!

    Any pros for setting up Lion completely new from CD an move the apps from the HDD after that? I guess the same result in the end, isn't it?!
     
  7. dolphin842 macrumors 65816

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    #7
    Theoretically, larger files like photos and videos will likely benefit from the increased sequential read speeds that RAID0 offers. Whether or not you'll perceive this extra speed on a daily basis is up for debate.

    How are you backing up that RAID0 array? If you don't have much in the way of backup, I'd recommend switching to a RAID1, or at least set up a cloud backup before continuing to rely on RAID0.

    If you're just putting the system and apps on the SSD, you would probably get better results doing a fresh install versus moving over your existing installation.
     
  8. Loa macrumors 65816

    Loa

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    #8
    Hello,

    +1 for the back-up suggestion, but -1 for the RAID1 as a back-up solution.

    It's not.

    Redundancy is not a back-up as it only protects against drive failure (which isn't the only or most frequent cause of data loss), and redundant RAIDs weren't designed as a true back-up solution. A RAID1 (as a back-up solution) has absolutely no advantage over a separate drive, and has a few drawbacks.

    IMO, the cheapest method I find acceptable is to have 2 back-up drives: one next to your system (external drive is easier to manage), and one off-site (not in the same building as your Mac). You rotate them each week, and never allow all of them (including your Mac) to be in the same place at the same time.

    Loa
     
  9. Mac Husky, Dec 17, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2011

    Mac Husky thread starter macrumors regular

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    #9
    I do have another HDD built in. Running Time Machine. From time to time I additionally clone my RAID0 extern using Carbon Copy Cloner. Also have a NAS for another backup from time to time. Unfortunately no backup outside my rooms so far. Maybe using iCloud for most important things?!

    ----------

    Another short question: To clone my RAID0 to the SSD, do I have to create another Admin account outside the RAID0 and SSD to do that? Or is it possible to clone the whole drive I am on with my actual user folder without problems?!

    Maybe I will setup Lion fresh from CD on the SSD. But I don't like to do that for all of my apps. So maybe I'll clone them after Lion setup to the SSD.



    Do you guys think, the speed will improve from changing OSX and apps from RAID0 to the SSD?
     
  10. Loa macrumors 65816

    Loa

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    #10
    Hello,

    Your data isn't important? :p

    Yes.

    It will definitely feel snappier, but actual performance gains will depend on your actual usage/apps.

    My advice: use a stopwatch to time long actions that you use often, (like open / save large documents, encode big files, etc...), and then do the same tests with the SSD.

    Loa
     
  11. Mac Husky thread starter macrumors regular

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    #11
    You know, you're right :D Me too.
     
  12. Mac Husky thread starter macrumors regular

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    #12
    Hello Loa! Hello everybody!

    Is it possible just to copy OS and Apps to the SSD by using CCC and leave the user home folder (and other data of course) where they are?!

    If not: I have some problems with understanding your instructions due to linguistic misunderstandings I guess.

    As far as I understand:

    1. CCC: copy system(?) and apps from HDD to SSD
    2. CCC: also copy invisible OS files (but where do I set the hook for it)

    Maybe you can post a picture, which hooks have to be set?

    Trickier stuff:

    3. Clone SSD(?) exept user folder?
    4. Where do I have to create a new user? On the HDD again? Same name?

    I don´t understand the last steps for user folder transfer well, sorry.
     
  13. Mac Husky thread starter macrumors regular

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    #13
    @Loa

    Sometimes it is helpfull to lean back and go to sleep for a while ;) I think I know what you mean now. Was a little bit irritated by "after that" in your post abough. So it should be like that:

    1. CCC: copy system(?) and apps from HDD to SSD (without users folder!)

    2. CCC: also copy invisible OS files

    My question concerning that still is: Where do I set the hook for it (invisible OS files). Maybe you can post a picture, which hooks have to be set using CCC?

    3. Creating a new user (or more than one) on the SSD with the same name(s)

    4. Pointing home folder(s) to it's old location on RAID0 (System prefs)




    If I should decide to set up Lion NEW on the SSD, could I use CCC just to move the apps from the RAID0 on to the SSD later on? Or is it better to clone OSX and apps together?

    I also could build up the SDD after new installation of Lion using time machine or migration assistent?

    You see, I am still thinking about the best way to do that. CCC seems to be the easiest and fastest way to me! I also tend to leave OS and apps on the RAID0 too, to have a bootable system there if anything should go wrong on the SSD.
     
  14. Loa macrumors 65816

    Loa

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    #14
    Hello,

    Steps 1 and 2 are the same. As soon as you select a drive using CCC, you will see the invisible files automatically. (Note: I specified the invisible files, because some people think that the boot volume has *nothing more* than Applications, Library, System and Users. There are a lot more invisible folders, and if you attempt to simply copy those files using the Finder, you won't have a functional drive)

    So your understanding of the steps is correct.

    As far as Lion goes, it doesn't make much difference for this process. I would advise you against moving just the apps. Sadly, since the days of Mac OS 10.0, most apps are not stand-alone packages: they depend on other linked files that are found in the various (some in Users, some in System) Library folders. Moving just the apps would work for some apps, but not all, creating a mess that would be hard to correct.

    Also, I would advise going one step at a time because upgrading to Lion, unless you've checked all your apps and system kexts, can be problematic, especially if you have old apps/kexts.

    So start with a full back-up, then either:

    1) make the switch to SSD with 10.6.8, and test it out for a few days before upgrading to Lion.
    or
    2) upgrade to Lion and test it out for a few days before switching to SSD.

    In any case, don't update your back-up (your current one, with 10.6.8 on RAID0) for a few weeks after doing these upgrades (SSD and Lion). In fact, unless you absolutely need something in Lion, I'd wait until 10.7.3 comes out.

    Good luck,

    Loa
     
  15. Mac Husky, Dec 27, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2011

    Mac Husky thread starter macrumors regular

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    #15
    Thx so far.

    BUT I do allready use Lion on the RAID0.

    And as I found out today there are some problems with just copy Lion to another volume due to not migrated hidden recover partition. That would be an argument for another fresh install of Lion on the SSD.

    BUT that might lead to the problems you mentioned with the apps?!

    Would it be better, to use Time Machine for the apps than or not?
    Or should I forget the recover partition and just use CCC as planned?
    Or maybe do it as planned and install Lion again over the SSD?
    (I do not know, if that ist possible)


    More problems and questions the more I think about it :rolleyes:


    Also thinking about the posting of the user Satnam1989 here, who recommends to put the user folder on the SSD also (for docs/files/half my most used music). Would not use it for music, but for all day work for example. Putting only the bigger files (fotos, films/movies) on the HDD. Same discussion here. Some arguments are just the same that you mentioned concerning apps might work without problems or not after just copying them to another volume without OS X.


    Ordered a Crucial M4 128 - should change it into a 256 when planning that?!
     
  16. Loa macrumors 65816

    Loa

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    #16
    Hello,

    I never tried CCC with Lion for my boot volume. I'm not home right now and can't test it with CCC. Maybe start a new thread with this specific question?

    As for what you put on the SSD: as much as you can afford. Personally I don't like to split my home folder, but to each his own.

    Loa
     
  17. Mac Husky thread starter macrumors regular

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    #17
    I do not like splitting it too. But I do not like fotos and stuff on the SSD neither. So only two options: Splitting or fully located on the HDD/RAID0. All that decissions :rolleyes:
     
  18. Loa macrumors 65816

    Loa

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    #18
    Hello,

    Here's some info on CCC's handling of the recovery partition.

    If you want to back up your boot volume in a single step, use an OS dvd or another boot volume to boot (just for the back-up procedure), clone your main boot volume using CCC with block-level-copy enabled, and voilà.

    Loa
     
  19. Mac Husky thread starter macrumors regular

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    #19
    Thanks a lot.

    Another problem: Lion did not create the recover partition on the RAID0 at all. Thats one of the problems when installing Lion on a RAID. So I think I do have only 2 options: Fresh install of Lion on SSD and moving apps from HDD to SSD after that (may cause problems as you mentioned) or forget the recovery partition - reading your linked article a clone backup seems to be a better backup solution in case of problems anyway. So using CCC for system and apps as primary suggested might be the best and fastest way. Running Lion for a couple of weeks now it has been a stable system so far.

    Could you - just to be secure - tell me exactly where to set the hooks using CCC for that process, please?! And also what hooks are necessary for the user folder(s)?!
     
  20. Loa macrumors 65816

    Loa

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    #20
    Hello,

    Not sure what you mean by "hook".

    But if you're referring to a block-level-copy, just go to CCC's preferences, and enable the correct tick-box. The block-level-copy button will then appear in the main CCC window.

    Loa
     
  21. Mac Husky thread starter macrumors regular

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    #21
    I mean the hooks that have to be set for the things that I want CCC to clone.
     
  22. Loa macrumors 65816

    Loa

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    #22
    Hello,

    My advice: try it out for yourself.

    CCC is a very simple and clear program. Every folder on the drive you want to back-up has a checkbox next to it: check what you want, uncheck what you don't want. For a full back-up, check everything. There are various options, but they're all very clearly explained right in the app.

    It's really simple. The only specific detail for Lion (for the recovery partition) has been outlined above.

    Loa
     
  23. funkahdafi macrumors 6502

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    #23
    I would definitely keep the user folder on the SSD. All the caches, libraries etc. are perfect for SSD. Everything will be much snappier. For large data like photos, music etc. I woul put them out of the user folder and on normal hard drives.

    I have it like this:

    1. two SSDs in RAID-0 for boot, apps, user folder.
    2. three HDDs in RAID-0 for data
     
  24. Mac Husky thread starter macrumors regular

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    #24
    But how do you handle it with the data on the HDD?
    Do you have another user account for them?
    Or is it possible with the same user? If yes, how?
     
  25. funkahdafi macrumors 6502

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    #25
    Not sure what you mean. I have one user account. You can put your data anywhere you want. Just create some folders on the other HD and throw in there whatever you want. If this is not what you mean, please be more specific with your question.

    Cheers :)
     

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