RAM for older G5 PowerPC

[JackAHyde]

My order should be here soon I hope I dont have the issue you had. Was the G5 like mine, same specs? Were you upgrading from 4GB to 8? Did you purchase all new 8GB or added to?

I had purchased all 8 GB, and it was a model that came with 1.5 GB onboard, although that was all that the system could detect. In reality, it had four 512 MB sticks inside.

Curiously enough, I did try to mix and match two of these sticks into the system when it became clear that I wouldn't be able to max out all 8 GB of my RAM. I thought it would be fine to settle with just 7 GB, but that didn't pan out, so now I'm only using 6 GB.

 

[T140V]

Here is where I stand as of this morning.
I cannot get more than 4GB to show up in About This Mac.
My first attempt was to install all 4 of the new OWC with my existing 4. Only registered 4GB.
Then I tested just the new ram by installing just the 4 it registered 3GB. Did a process of elimination and replaced one of my older sticks for a bad OWC stick.. It said 4GB.
Then I tried adding two more of my old sticks, registered 4GB. Question, should it have read the added two to make 6GB? Is it at all possible that the slots 5,6,7 and 8 are not functioning? Did Apple forget to turn them on at the factory?
I also tried putting 2 sticks in just slot 7 and 8 and I got the power light flashing on and off and no boot up. So then I added 2 more in slots 5 & 6 still no boot up and flashing power light.
Is it possible to check the outer slots without having any inner slots filled to see if they work?
Frustrating to say the least!

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Here are some thoughts. First make sure you are installing them correctly. This OWC video shows how the matched sets should be installed.

If that is how you are installing it, if you have it:
1.) I would spray some deoxit into the ram slots to clean them out, especially the ones that have not been occupied.
2.) If you dont have deoxit, Id use compressed air to suck any potential debris out that may be preventing the ram from being recognized.
3.) Make sure the ram is firmly seated in each ram slot. They dont just pop in and require moderate pressure to pop them in. The clips on the edge of the ram slots should meet the notches on the edge of the ram sticks.

If you still cant get the ram sticks to read and youve diagnosed the slots as good, it could be the ram sticks.

4.) Another way to test the ram slots is to blow a hair dryer over the slots to get them hot and expand the solder joints. With the ram sticks in the suspect slots, this temporarily will cause the ram to be recognized. Turn your the machine off and let it cool fully. Boot the machine and if the slots are bad you will see the ram drop off as the joints cool down and connection ceases. The only cure for this is to go in, take the logic board out and reflow the ram slot solder joints ideally with fresh new, solder - which could be a neat project for you or you could just buy a new logicboard off the internet and install it.

Either way, good luck. I hope its an easy fix

 

[T140V]

Here are some thoughts. First make sure you are installing them correctly. This OWC video shows how the matched sets should be installed.

If that is how you are installing it, if you have it:
1.) I would spray some deoxit into the ram slots to clean them out, especially the ones that have not been occupied.
2.) If you dont have deoxit, Id use compressed air to suck any potential debris out that may be preventing the ram from being recognized.
3.) Make sure the ram is firmly seated in each ram slot. They dont just pop in and require moderate pressure to pop them in. The clips on the edge of the ram slots should meet the notches on the edge of the ram sticks.

If you still cant get the ram sticks to read and youve diagnosed the slots as good, it could be the ram sticks.

4.) Another way to test the ram slots is to blow a hair dryer over the slots to get them hot and expand the solder joints. With the ram sticks in the suspect slots, this temporarily will cause the ram to be recognized. Turn your the machine off and let it cool fully. Boot the machine and if the slots are bad you will see the ram drop off as the joints cool down and connection ceases. The only cure for this is to go in, take the logic board out and reflow the ram slot solder joints ideally with fresh new, solder - which could be a neat project for you or you could just buy a new logicboard off the internet and install it.

Either way, good luck. I hope its an easy fix

Thanks.
The memory sticks are seating properly with a definate click into place and side clips go vertical. I have been doing quite a bit of practicing trying to sort this plus four sticks work when I pull them out and put them back in.
I did blow the slots with a can of air before
I started but doesn't the constant inserting and removing that I have done serve as cleaning the pins?
Although, keep in mind that they had been empty since it was made in 2004. Could dust build up have hardened causing sticks not to register? I dont have Deoxit but do have a can of contact cleaner. Would that be safe to use? Would I need to insert something like a business card to try and clean the slots?
Not sure about the hair dryer thing. If that was needed, which is not a cure as I doubt that I would attempt to reflow the solder, I would probably give up on the 8GB dream.

 

[DeltaMac]

Hmm... A dead (or just low) battery CAN cause some odd issues on a Mac. Make sure that you have tested that battery, and that it tests above 3.3 VDC. Press the PMU reset button (only ONCE, to avoid crashing the PMU chip), and then try your RAM test again. I would probably try adding one pair at a time, in the correct slots (center slots first, then add one pair at a time, working your way out from the middle pair of slots, test booting after adding each pair. Hopefully, each pair should be identical RAM sticks. I would suggest that each pair should be identical. Don't mix old sticks with new for any one pair, even if they seem otherwise identical except for age. That process will also be an additional cleaning process for each RAM slot in those more-than-20-year-old slots.

 

[ToniCH]

I dont have Deoxit but do have a can of contact cleaner. Would that be safe to use?

Deoxit is a contact cleaner. It is safe to use other brands too. Just let it evaporate and dry before powering on just to be on the safe side.

 

[T140V]

Deoxit is a contact cleaner. It is safe to use other brands too. Just let it evaporate and dry before powering on just to be on the safe side.

Yep thought so except, no dice didn’t help.
I pooled some cleaner and dipped a folded paper business card and ran it back and forth a couple times, ran a small clean paint brush through the slots and more canned air.
With 6 sticks in, still showing only 4GB.
So, knowing that 3 out of 4 OWC supplied memory and 1 stick of original Crucial works, shows 4GB, if all slots were working and I added two more sticks, should 6GB show, or if 1 more 7?
This is very disappointing.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Yep thought so except, no dice didn’t help.
I pooled some cleaner and dipped a folded paper business card and ran it back and forth a couple times, ran a small clean paint brush through the slots and more canned air.
With 6 sticks in, still showing only 4GB.
So, knowing that 3 out of 4 OWC supplied memory and 1 stick of original Crucial works, shows 4GB, if all slots were working and I added two more sticks, should 6GB show, or if 1 more 7?
This is very disappointing.

3 1GB OWC + 1 1GB CRUCIAL + 2 random 1GB sticks DDR 3200 would equal 6GB.

 

[T140V]

Hmm... A dead (or just low) battery CAN cause some odd issues on a Mac. Make sure that you have tested that battery, and that it tests above 3.3 VDC. Press the PMU reset button (only ONCE, to avoid crashing the PMU chip), and then try your RAM test again. I would probably try adding one pair at a time, in the correct slots (center slots first, then add one pair at a time, working your way out from the middle pair of slots, test booting after adding each pair. Hopefully, each pair should be identical RAM sticks. I would suggest that each pair should be identical. Don't mix old sticks with new for any one pair, even if they seem otherwise identical except for age. That process will also be an additional cleaning process for each RAM slot in those more-than-20-year-old slots.

Ok so you got me thinking about the old
battery in my Mac and what a weak battery could cause. I just ordered one in an effort to keep trying to solve my problem. I popped the old battery out and measured the V. To my surprise, it is not the original battery like I mentioned in an earlier post. Looks like I replaced the original in 2010 so its been in there for 15 years. Still, the voltage measured 3.68V. Should still be good?
So about this PMU button, are you suggesting in my case that I press it? Could this sort out the unrecognizable ram?
If so, what is the procedure? Take
battery out and press button once or leave battery in and press. I understand unplugging all connected cables.
You mention not mixing old ram with new even though tests showed that the two brands can coexist. Are you saying that if they were all new from one source, they all might be recognized?

 

[T140V]

3 1GB OWC + 1 1GB CRUCIAL + 2 random 1GB sticks DDR 3200 would equal 6GB.

Ok so under normal conditions it should show 6GB.
Thanks.

 

[T140V]

How can I test just the 4 outer slots only?
Is this possible?
Why would just those slots be inoperable?
Does mix and match ram only work in the inner 4 slots?

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

How can I test just the 4 outer slots only?
Is this possible?
Why would just those slots be inoperable?
Does mix and match ram only work in the inner 4 slots?

Loose ram slot solder joints is what I’ve seen as a common failure point for these. How I’ve tested for this is as explained above. Put known good ram in the slots, turn on the pmG5 and verify they do not register in osx. Turn the mac off and blow the ram slots that are not showing up with hot air until they’re hot to the touch and then turn the PMG5 back on. If they do show up, you know you have loose solder joints that will intermittently fail until reflowed. If they don’t, I suspect the ram.

What you’re doing is heating up the solder causing the alloy to swell from heat and creating contact that osx will see.

All of my PMG5s are mix matched manufacturer ram of the same type and size except my a1117 dual core which is in addition to manufacturer, also a mix of matched 1GB stick and 512gb sticks (lol), so I have not experienced this peculiar behavior that some folks report. Anecdotally, I have not had an issue with mixmatched manufacture ram or values as long as the spec and value is matched for each pair.

 

[T140V]

Loose ram slot solder joints is what I’ve seen as a common failure point for these. How I’ve tested for this is as explained above. Put known good ram in the slots, turn on the pmG5 and verify they do not register in osx. Turn the mac off and blow the ram slots that are not showing up with hot air until they’re hot to the touch and then turn the PMG5 back on. If they do show up, you know you have loose solder joints that will intermittently fail until reflowed. If they don’t, I suspect the ram.

What you’re doing is heating up the solder causing the alloy to swell from heat and creating contact that osx will see.

All of my PMG5s are mix matched manufacturer ram of the same type and size except my a1117 dual core which is in addition to manufacturer, also a mix of matched 1GB stick and 512gb sticks (lol), so I have not experienced this peculiar behavior that some folks report. Anecdotally, I have not had an issue with mixmatched manufacture ram or values as long as the spec and value is matched for each pair.

I will try the heat test.
It's hard to believe that the inner 4 slots would not have the faulty solder joints and the outer 4 do.
I guess one good reason would be when new, joints were good and did not suffer stress cracks when I inserted the new ram. Now, with the G5 being 25 years old, the old mother board could have gotten brittle. You do have to press crazy hard to seat the ram sticks although I used a soft approach to push into place.
Are there any other reasons, not mentioned, as to why these slots are not showing up? I keep thinking it's something I have overlooked, simple.
I have some more questions if you don't mind offering an opinion.
Is possible that the ram is working but just not showing up? I did try opening a couple of applications that take some time opening and they did feel a little faster to open but not obvious faster. Is there a way to test ram speed? Or was it possibly just the newer ram sticks working better.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Yanno another thought is to run AHT (Apple Hardware test) suite for your particular mac. Mactracker states that you would use 2.5.2 for the a1047 Powermac G5. Link below:

aht-powerpc directory listing

IIRC the test suite includes a test of the ram slots. It may be worth your time to run and see what it states.

I have never seen a PMG5 not report ram that was being used, but then again, how would you know if it wasnt reporting it in sys pref etc? Haha As far as ram speed, well, there are three speeds of DDR1 ram, pc2100 at 266mt, 2700 at 333mt and 3200 at 400mt all of which are keyed the same as they are DDR1 and will fit in your PMG5. The A1047 only every shipped with 2700 and 3200 and Apple upgraded to 3200 starting with the DP 1.8ghz = lol that doesnt mean that something weird happened and yours got 2700 from the factory somehow lol. Stranger things have happened. If what you have installed originally was say DDR1 PC2700, the PC3200 you just installed would be clocked down to the slower speed of the PC2700 DDR1, so while the 3200 is capable of up to 400mt, it would run at 333. I dont know what your speed of oem DDR1 is, so this is all hypothetical on my part. In any case, any gain in performance would likely not have been from "better ram" so much as it would have been from more of it for the system to utilize. This effect would be the same for DDR1 running at 333 or 400. The only hypothetical situation I can think of where you may have experienced a tangible realworld increase in speed is from moving from the older & slower 2700 in test one to the faster 3200 in test 2. Again, this is unlikely IMO because Apple ceased using pc2700 with their 1.6ghz powermac g5 and started DDR1 PC3200 with the 1.8 & 2.0 Ghz A1047 Powermac G5s so your A1047 should already have factory 3200 in it. As far as seeing the speed of the OEM ram, the sticks often will have a sticker on them stating what it is and from that you can discern the speed in Mhz that it is running at. I hope that is helps.

Good luck.

 

[T140V]

Yanno another thought is to run AHT (Apple Hardware test) suite for your particular mac. Mactracker states that you would use 2.5.2 for the a1047 Powermac G5. Link below:

aht-powerpc directory listing

IIRC the test suite includes a test of the ram slots. It may be worth your time to run and see what it states.

I have never seen a PMG5 not report ram that was being used, but then again, how would you know if it wasnt reporting it in sys pref etc? Haha As far as ram speed, well, there are three speeds of DDR1 ram, pc2100 at 266mt, 2700 at 333mt and 3200 at 400mt all of which are keyed the same as they are DDR1 and will fit in your PMG5. The A1047 only every shipped with 2700 and 3200 and Apple upgraded to 3200 starting with the DP 1.8ghz = lol that doesnt mean that something weird happened and yours got 2700 from the factory somehow lol. Stranger things have happened. If what you have installed originally was say DDR1 PC2700, the PC3200 you just installed would be clocked down to the slower speed of the PC2700 DDR1, so while the 3200 is capable of up to 400mt, it would run at 333. I dont know what your speed of oem DDR1 is, so this is all hypothetical on my part. In any case, any gain in performance would likely not have been from "better ram" so much as it would have been from more of it for the system to utilize. This effect would be the same for DDR1 running at 333 or 400. The only hypothetical situation I can think of where you may have experienced a tangible realworld increase in speed is from moving from the older & slower 2700 in test one to the faster 3200 in test 2. Again, this is unlikely IMO because Apple ceased using pc2700 with their 1.6ghz powermac g5 and started DDR1 PC3200 with the 1.8 & 2.0 Ghz A1047 Powermac G5s so your A1047 should already have factory 3200 in it. As far as seeing the speed of the OEM ram, the sticks often will have a sticker on them stating what it is and from that you can discern the speed in Mhz that it is running at. I hope that is helps.

Good luck.

Really appreciate you for trying to help.
About this AHT thing, what you sent me, would this be used in lieu of the G5's original gray discs that I cannot find for the life of me? Do I just open the file you sent? It is asking me to open in….. What should I open the file with?
Sorry if this sounds lame but I just want to make sure.
Pending what I might find out like “some ram slots were not detected” or “ your ram tests normal”, not sure what I would do then. Apple won't help me, and the old girl is not worth taking to a tech, even if I could find one that works on antiques, it really is not worth the cost I'm sure.
On a separate note, your information regarding ram speed went sky high over my head lol! 😵‍💫 but I do appreciate it.
Cheers!

 

[T140V]

This is crazy.
I’m done fretting over it.
I’ve asked OWC for a return authorization.
Really really didn't expect this outcome.
Guess I only have myself to blame for not filling the slots right when I opened the dang box.
😡

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Sorry for the delay. You are correct, AHT was on those gray discs that came with the powermac - usually disc one. Since you dont have them, you would download the correct version and then burn it to a blank DVD and boot into that at start up by holding down the option key and selecting the dvd. Then you can run the suite and see what it says. What you would do is up to you, but you would know if it is ram based or if the slot is broken and from there take next steps. As it stands, you could continue to use the PM at 4gb ram. My A1047 variant was neutered with only 4gb max lol, so never had an option for 8. The board even has the pads for where the other ram slots would hypothetically go, Apple just chose not to populate them.

and its not anyone's fault. These computers at this point are elderly. Stuff breaks, wears out and gets fiddly - just the way these old computers are.

 

[T140V]

Sorry for the delay. You are correct, AHT was on those gray discs that came with the powermac - usually disc one. Since you dont have them, you would download the correct version and then burn it to a blank DVD and boot into that at start up by holding down the option key and selecting the dvd. Then you can run the suite and see what it says. What you would do is up to you, but you would know if it is ram based or if the slot is broken and from there take next steps. As it stands, you could continue to use the PM at 4gb ram. My A1047 variant was neutered with only 4gb max lol, so never had an option for 8. The board even has the pads for where the other ram slots would hypothetically go, Apple just chose not to populate them.

and its not anyone's fault. These computers at this point are elderly. Stuff breaks, wears out and gets fiddly - just the way these old computers are.

Naw, Im not blaming anyone. It is old thats true but it was coddled. Really not abused in anyway but its hard for me to understand why the unused 4 slots are not working.

 

[panzerkiller]

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