Rant: Canon sRAW Compatibility with Apple

[CPPhoto]

I can't take it anymore. The fact that sRAW is not included in this latest update to Apple RAW compatibility is unacceptable! I is not like creating a whole new format, its just a smaller version of raw.

Come on apple..come on canon. get it together.

 

[wheezy]

I can't take it anymore. The fact that sRAW is not included in this latest update to Apple RAW compatibility is unacceptable! I is not like creating a whole new format, its just a smaller version of raw.

Come on apple..come on canon. get it together.

I was not aware of this... that is pretty sucky. The Canon software works with it though, right? Just not in OS X/Aperture? What about Lightroom?

 

[CPPhoto]

aperture will ingest the files, but not load/process them.. Ironically file previews in OSX/Aperture do load.

The only way to use sRAW is to use Adobe Camera Raw IF you have CS4, otherwise convert to jpeg with raw converter in CS3, lightroom, etc which defeats the purpose of using RAW.

Its unbelievable that it has been since the 40D's and Mark III release that has gone unfixed.

 

[toxic]

process in DPP and convert to TIFF? or don't shoot in sRAW..

Aperture still doesn't support the LX3, strangely.

 

[John.B]

Its unbelievable that it has been since the 40D's and Mark III release that has gone unfixed.

I feel your pain, though the only Canon in the RAW update last night (500D/T1i) doesn't support sRAW, so that would've been a strange time to update it. Maybe report it as a bug?

I shoot in RAW (not sRAW) and the file sizes from my new 50D are huge. Personally I just went out and bought larger CF cards. Obviously that's not an acceptable solution for everyone.

Aperture still doesn't support the LX3, strangely.

There is something really squirrelly about RAW with those Panny cameras. Adobe eventually got support for these cameras working through some sort of hack that makes the DNG files triple their normal size, so I imagine Apple is likely having a bit of a go with this as well. I think Panasonic is probably at fault here.

* Panasonic DMC-G1**
* Panasonic DMC-FX150**
* Panasonic DMC-FZ28**
* Panasonic DMC-LX3**
* Leica D-LUX 4**

**With the release of Camera Raw 5.2 (and upcoming Lightroom 2.2 release) there is an important exception in our DNG file handling for the Panasonic DMC LX3, Panasonic DMC FX150, Panasonic DMC FZ28, Panasonic DMC-G1 and Leica D-LUX 4. In this release the native, proprietary files from these cameras can only be converted to linear DNG files. A linear DNG file has gone through a demosaic process that converts a single mosaic layer of red, green and blue channel information into three distinct layers , one for each channel. The resulting linear DNG file is approximately three times the size of a mosaic DNG file or the original proprietary file format.

This exception is a temporary solution to ensure that Panasonic and Leica's intended image rendering from their proprietary raw file format is applied to an image when converted DNG files are viewed in third party software titles. The same image rendering process is applied automatically in Camera Raw 5.2 and in Lightroon 2.2 when viewing the original proprietary raw file format.

In a future release Adobe plans to update the DNG specification to include an option to embed metadata-based representations of the lens compensations in the DNG file, allowing a mosaic DNG conversion. In the interim Adobe recommends only converting these files to DNG to allow compatibility with third party raw converters, previous versions of the Camera Raw plug-in or previous versions of Lightroom.

If you believe what you read on Teh Intarwebz, there might be more to this than meets the eye:

http://www.seriouscompacts.com/2008/10/is-panasonic-hindering-third-party-lx3.html

 

[robogobo]

This is absolute ********. I just shot a wedding yesterday with my newish 5D mk2 in sRAW, and my recently stremlined Aperture workflow is useless for this job. I used sRAW because I knew I wouldn't need the huge files but I still wanted RAW controls. That's what sRAW is for, right? And I researched the hell out of this camera, and Aperture, before buying. I never came across the compatibility problem. "CR2" is listed as supported. sRAW files are CR2. W.T.F! Now I have to use the crappy DPP because Apple and Canon can't get it together after almost 2 years.

I'm pissed.

 

[robbieduncan]

This is absolute ********. I just shot a wedding yesterday with my newish 5D mk2 in sRAW, and my recently stremlined Aperture workflow is useless for this job. I used sRAW because I knew I wouldn't need the huge files but I still wanted RAW controls. That's what sRAW is for, right? And I researched the hell out of this camera, and Aperture, before buying. I never came across the compatibility problem. "CR2" is listed as supported. sRAW files are CR2. W.T.F! Now I have to use the crappy DPP because Apple and Canon can't get it together after almost 2 years.

I'm pissed.

CR2 files are not all the same. In fact the CR2 file created by each and every model is different. This is also true of sRAW files: they are not just the same format but smaller: they are a new format.

 

[MacNoobie]

Just download Lightroom 2.3 (30 day demo should give enough time to edit) which supports 5D Mark II sRAW files and quit using that aperture junk (as you said no support for your sRAW's) 🙄.

 

[robogobo]

CR2 files are not all the same. In fact the CR2 file created by each and every model is different. This is also true of sRAW files: they are not just the same format but smaller: they are a new format.

Yes, I suppose I realize that now. However, when Aperture advertises that it supports the CR2 format, which CR2 format are they talking about? I look at sRAW, it's a CR2 format. there's nothing on the Aperture site, nothing in the documentation that says sRAW is unsupported. Like I said, total BS.

 

[robbieduncan]

Apple do maintain a compatibility list. Misleadingly they mention nothing about sRaw incompatibility. I suggest dropping them a message...

 

[John.B]

This is absolute ********. I just shot a wedding yesterday with my newish 5D mk2 in sRAW, and my recently stremlined Aperture workflow is useless for this job. I used sRAW because I knew I wouldn't need the huge files but I still wanted RAW controls. That's what sRAW is for, right? And I researched the hell out of this camera, and Aperture, before buying. I never came across the compatibility problem. "CR2" is listed as supported. sRAW files are CR2. W.T.F! Now I have to use the crappy DPP because Apple and Canon can't get it together after almost 2 years.

I'm pissed.

All you need to do is convert your sRAW files to Adobe DNG, which Aperture can natively read. Adobe Camera Raw 5.2 or later can do that, or use the demo version of Lightroom.

Nothing personal, but I'm surprised you didn't do an end-to-end dry run of your new/revised workflow before shooting an important* event like that. Why not just buy bigger cards or buy more of the same size cards you already carry?

* When I say important, I'm referring to the fact that a wedding is a special one-of-a-kind event to be be shared between two people: the bride and her mother. 😉

 

[147798]

Since folks are suggesting to convert to DNG, or don't shoot in RAW, etc. let me make a different recommendation. Use LR.

I really wanted to like Ap, but this was one thing that scared me. OS-level RAW converter that requires an OS update. I appreciate what they are thinking, but it's just too cumbersome, and shows that photog support is #2 in their mind behind hw and platform concerns. Love my Mac, but I felt LR was a better bet. This is a key business for Adobe -- not for Apple.

I could process LX3 RAW in LR no sweat (sorry -- no experience w/sRAW, so couldn't comment on LR support of the same).

 

[John.B]

Since folks are suggesting to convert to DNG, or don't shoot in RAW, etc. let me make a different recommendation. Use LR.

I really wanted to like Ap, but this was one thing that scared me. OS-level RAW converter that requires an OS update. I appreciate what they are thinking, but it's just too cumbersome, and shows that photog support is #2 in their mind behind hw and platform concerns. Love my Mac, but I felt LR was a better bet. This is a key business for Adobe -- not for Apple.

I could process LX3 RAW in LR no sweat (sorry -- no experience w/sRAW, so couldn't comment on LR support of the same).

"Converting" to DNG is different than converting to JPEG or TIFF. DNG simply standardizes all the sensor-specific stuff in a .cr2 or .nef file into an open-standards raw format file.

BTW, Lightroom, the Camera Raw plug-in for Photoshop and Adobe Camera Raw and their DNG Converter all have their own "wrappers" around the same Adobe code to convert individual camera's raw files into something Ps, PsE and Lr can digest. And Aperture can read DNG files natively.

As far as Apple support goes, once a camera has raw support in OS X then it'll always have support (for Aperture, iPhoto, etc.) When this gets to be an issue is generally when a new camera is released -- and Adobe struggles to get this functional sometimes just like Apple does. I'll admit that Apple needs to step up to the plate when it comes to supporting Canon's sRAW format; esp. since Canon doesn't attempt to encrypt or obfuscate that data like some of their competition (cough, Nikon, cough, cough, Panny LX3, cough!) so it shouldn't be that hard.

That said, I think I'm becoming a Lr convert strictly from a usability standpoint. There is a bit of a learning curve, but nothing like Ps, and after spending some time in Lr I really get the feeling that Adobe finally listened to *photographers*. Lr is clearly a tool for us and not some generic tool masquarading as an image organizer but built for multiple purposes (I'm lookin' at you Adobe Bridge!)

 

[CPPhoto]

the 5D Mark II is probably one of the biggest game changers as far as cameras go. There is no reason why apple shouldn't support this format. The format itself has been around since (I believe) the 40D. This doesn't effect just my 5D MK II but also my 1d(s) mark III's which for professionals, is bread and butter cameras...

A professional software should not be lacking key professional camera support

 

[HBOC]

i have noticed that DPP (installed when i had my 30D) wont open the RAW files from my G9 (CR2). Really weird, because i actually liked using DPP to convert to TIFF files. The G9 uses some new Canon software that i dont use anymore. I usually just use photoshop/LR or aperture. I dont know why G9 files wont open with the software that shipped with the 30D, although that camera is 3 years old...

 

[robbieduncan]

i have noticed that DPP (installed when i had my 30D) wont open the RAW files from my G9 (CR2). Really weird, because i actually liked using DPP to convert to TIFF files. The G9 uses some new Canon software that i dont use anymore. I usually just use photoshop/LR or aperture. I dont know why G9 files wont open with the software that shipped with the 30D, although that camera is 3 years old...

Because you need a new version of DPP that understands the data format of the G9. Just because they are all .cr2 files doesn't mean the content is the same. The file is a raw dump of sensor data: every sensor creates a different format file and needs new code to understand it and turn it into a viewable image.

 

[John.B]

i have noticed that DPP (installed when i had my 30D) wont open the RAW files from my G9 (CR2). Really weird, because i actually liked using DPP to convert to TIFF files. The G9 uses some new Canon software that i dont use anymore. I usually just use photoshop/LR or aperture. I dont know why G9 files wont open with the software that shipped with the 30D, although that camera is 3 years old...

If you go to the Canon download library for the 30D or your particular camera model and select "OS X" in the dropdown (the software download section doesn't show up until you pick an OS), then you'll see the updater .dmg files for the various Canon apps including the DPP 3.6.2 updater dated June 12th as well as for a few older releases like 3.4.1 and 2.2.0.

Interesting enough, I just checked and the G9 download page doesn't have the same software downloads. Based on that, I'm assuming that the G9 didn't ship with DPP. Is it possible that DPP simply doesn't work with the G9? Strange...

 

[FX120]

I gave up on using Aperature for a few reasons, but the lack of RAW support for a number of cameras was probably the biggest.

I do processing work for a few other people, and it's just unacceptable that it can take Apple weeks to finally support a new camera, or in the case of sRAW, never. sRAW is a legitimate format with and has a real need with the newest 20+MP DSLR's, as often times you just don't need the full resolution that the sensor is capable of.

Apple really needs to get their act together. It's like they just don't give a damn about the "creative professional" any longer.

 

[Edge100]

Apple really needs to get their act together. It's like they just don't give a damn about the "creative professional" any longer.

I used to do a lot of pro audio, and after Apple acquired Emagic (and their excellent 'Logic' software), we all used to rant and rave in the same way. Apple has their own update schedule, and it doesn't always jive with what creative pros need. In that case, Logic was (and still is) the best native DAW out there, so many of us put up with it. In this case, however, there really is a viable alternative, and its name is Lightroom.

 

[robogobo]

All you need to do is convert your sRAW files to Adobe DNG, which Aperture can natively read. Adobe Camera Raw 5.2 or later can do that, or use the demo version of Lightroom.

Nothing personal, but I'm surprised you didn't do an end-to-end dry run of your new/revised workflow before shooting an important* event like that. Why not just buy bigger cards or buy more of the same size cards you already carry?

* When I say important, I'm referring to the fact that a wedding is a special one-of-a-kind event to be be shared between two people: the bride and her mother. 😉

Well, here's the deal on that. I had to shoot a wedding, and the arrangement was to shoot an hour or two of the afterparty. But when I arrived, they said they'd really love it if I could shoot the whole thing (which turned out to be over 6 hours). I knew I didn't have enough CF storage to do that, and since I saw no reason not to shoot sRAW, I just went ahead and did it. I knew they'd never need 50MB tifs.

I also have shot lower res jpegs at times, and never needed to check if they'd be supported. When Apple says a .CR2 from a 5D MarkII is supported, and the sRAW is a .CR2 from a 5D MarkII, I see no reason to do a dry run.

btw, a DNG from sRAW is also unsupported in Aperture. I just waited two hours for DPP to convert the sRAWs to tifs.

I'm this close to dumping Aperture.

 

[andrewkendall]

As far as I remember 5D Mark II sRAW1 files worked fine with Leopard until Canon released the 1.0.7 firmware. The updated firmware fixed banding in sRAW1 files and we can assume changed the format slightly. I have been waiting patiently for a fix every time they issue a RAW update but maybe the case is that nobody from Apple knows there is a problem.

 

[toxic]

I do processing work for a few other people, and it's just unacceptable that it can take Apple weeks to finally support a new camera...

and this is different from Adobe in what way?

 

[FX120]

and this is different from Adobe in what way?

Adobe updates their software much, much quicker.

The 5DII was supported within days of it's release in Bridge, Lightroom, and ACR, it still isn't fully supported in Aperature.

 

[HBOC]

If you go to the Canon download library for the 30D or your particular camera model and select "OS X" in the dropdown (the software download section doesn't show up until you pick an OS), then you'll see the updater .dmg files for the various Canon apps including the DPP 3.6.2 updater dated June 12th as well as for a few older releases like 3.4.1 and 2.2.0.

Interesting enough, I just checked and the G9 download page doesn't have the same software downloads. Based on that, I'm assuming that the G9 didn't ship with DPP. Is it possible that DPP simply doesn't work with the G9? Strange...

yes, you are correct. DPP shipped with my 30D, but i tried to use it with my G9. No go, i am afraid, although i have no problems opening them up in camera raw 5.0 (?)..

 

[MichielM]

Switch to Lightroom!

Not supporting sRAW is obviously not acceptable (and with that any suggestion to convert files in order to use Aperture). sRAW is a common format with Canon cameras and with their market size something hard to ignore.

I gave up on Aperture, it has to fit the workflow and currently it does not, so over to Lightroom.

Gave feedback on Aperture feedback page. Suggest you all do that as well and in the mean time just switch to Lightroom.

Bdw: in case you did not notice iPhoto also does not support sRaw