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SnowCrocodile

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Nov 21, 2022
507
515
SouthEast of Northern MidWest
I am a lifetime Windows user. I started on 3.1 (yes...) and have been through every disaster of an OS that Microsoft released in the 00's.

I have also been using Linux, on and off, for over a decade. Used a Mint desktop for three years, alongside with my Windows laptops. Also have been maintaining my mom's ChromeOS for years.

So I am not a newbie, I know that every OS had its issues, and I've had exposure to different OS's to compare.

So, last November I got my first MacOS laptop - M2 MBA, 16/512. Running the latest Ventura on it.

I swear I had more issues with it than I had with either Windows or Linux in the last five years at least.

Now, I am not saying that it's a problematic OS, necessarily. Most of the time it works well. But it not working well happens a lot more often than I came to expect with my other systems. I.e. not on the Windows ME's "a disaster in progress" level, but also not as stable as W10/11.

Some examples:

- Trying to quit an app. It can't quit because Finder is using some files. OK, whatever. An hour later open Mail, it won't show me the bodies of the messages. After trying to rebuilt the mailboxes, quitting and restarting Mail, I remember about that other app that won't quit because of Finder and kill the process. Boom, my mail works. That other app had absolutely nothing to do with emails. I am just not used anymore to apps making other apps unworkable, that's very Windows ME territory.

- Pull out an external drive without ejecting it first, and the OS will attempt to scan it the next time it's connected without providing an option to skip the scan, essentially rendering the drive useless on this machine until it scans every bit of that 3TB. Need to go into a terminal and run a Linux-style command to make this drive open again. Except Linux doesn't have this issue.

- Every now and then, some app just gets stuck / nonresponsive, can't kill it either, and I have to restart the laptop to make it work again. Usually it's Preview.

I can honestly say that in my experience, MacOS has been the least reliable (while still reasonably reliable), which is upsetting given the cost of getting into Apple ecosystem.
 
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- Pull out an external drive without ejecting it first, and the OS will attempt to scan it the next time it's connected without providing an option to skip the scan,

I'm curious what kind of "scan" your system performs when you connect a drive? What does it scan for?

I've simply never encountered a situation where macOS performs a scan when connecting a drive (although such cases might exist).
 
Hmm, I am definitely not a specialist or pro concerning Mac OS, just a user since around 10 years, but
- I have never experienced the topic regarding quitting an app and the connecting effects for example with mail
- disconnecting an external drive, without ejecting it first, happens quite a few times with my drives (oversight from my part, power outages, etc.), but I have never experienced that they get scanned the next time they get connected, at least not in a way that would render them non-usable.
- yes, sometimes an app may get completely unresponsive and you may need to restart the computer as a last resort. But in my experience that doesn’t happen more often than with any Windows computer I use at work.

By the way, I also use at this moment the latest Ventura and have not, as already stated, faced any such problems.

Herbert
 
"Pull out an external drive without ejecting it first, and the OS will attempt to scan it the next time it's connected without providing an option to skip the scan, essentially rendering the drive useless on this machine until it scans every bit of that 3TB. Need to go into a terminal and run a Linux-style command to make this drive open again. Except Linux doesn't have this issue."

You don't want to do this on the Mac.
It's the wrong way to disconnect an external drive, and if you keep doing it, expect problems.

The proper way to remove an external drive is:
1. drag desktop icon into the trash to "dismount" it
2. once the icon is gone, NOW it's safe to physically disconnect it.

Yes, it's "different" than it would be on a PC.
But that's the way it works on the Mac (for many years).
 
"Pull out an external drive without ejecting it first, and the OS will attempt to scan it the next time it's connected without providing an option to skip the scan, essentially rendering the drive useless on this machine until it scans every bit of that 3TB. Need to go into a terminal and run a Linux-style command to make this drive open again. Except Linux doesn't have this issue."

You don't want to do this on the Mac.
It's the wrong way to disconnect an external drive, and if you keep doing it, expect problems.

The proper way to remove an external drive is:
1. drag desktop icon into the trash to "dismount" it
2. once the icon is gone, NOW it's safe to physically disconnect it.

Yes, it's "different" than it would be on a PC.
But that's the way it works on the Mac (for many years).

Or use the eject button in the toolbar.

Screenshot 2023-08-02 at 8.16.29 AM.jpg
 
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I'm curious what kind of "scan" your system performs when you connect a drive? What does it scan for?

I've simply never encountered a situation where macOS performs a scan when connecting a drive (although such cases might exist).
Are you using any external drives formatted in ExFat ?

If you accidentally disconnect such drive while mounted - or MacOS decides to just randomly disconnect from it - the next time you attempt to connect it Mac will run a disk check on it and until it's done there's nothing you can do (nor does it provide an option to cancel, or even an acknowledgment of what is going on, all you see is a blinking light).

And running a disk check on a 5 terabyte drive takes a healthy 30 min or so.

This is a very well documented issue.

 
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Or use the eject button in the toolbar.

View attachment 2240581
Except sometimes Mac just decides to drop the external drive without any interference from me. E.g. when it goes to sleep with drive attached.

AFAIK this doesn't happen with drives formatted in Mac native file systems. But to keep the disk compatible with other computers, I have to use ExFat.

I'm not the only one with this issue.

 
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I am a lifetime Windows user. I started on 3.1 (yes...) and have been through every disaster of an OS that Microsoft released in the 00's.

I have also been using Linux, on and off, for over a decade. Used a Mint desktop for three years, alongside with my Windows laptops. Also have been maintaining my mom's ChromeOS for years.

So I am not a newbie, I know that every OS had its issues, and I've had exposure to different OS's to compare.

So, last November I got my first MacOS laptop - M2 MBA, 16/512. Running the latest Ventura on it.

I swear I had more issues with it than I had with either Windows or Linux in the last five years at least.

Now, I am not saying that it's a problematic OS, necessarily. Most of the time it works well. But it not working well happens a lot more often than I came to expect with my other systems. I.e. not on the Windows ME's "a disaster in progress" level, but also not as stable as W10/11.

Some examples:

- Trying to quit an app. It can't quit because Finder is using some files. OK, whatever. An hour later open Mail, it won't show me the bodies of the messages. After trying to rebuilt the mailboxes, quitting and restarting Mail, I remember about that other app that won't quit because of Finder and kill the process. Boom, my mail works. That other app had absolutely nothing to do with emails. I am just not used anymore to apps making other apps unworkable, that's very Windows ME territory.

- Pull out an external drive without ejecting it first, and the OS will attempt to scan it the next time it's connected without providing an option to skip the scan, essentially rendering the drive useless on this machine until it scans every bit of that 3TB. Need to go into a terminal and run a Linux-style command to make this drive open again. Except Linux doesn't have this issue.

- Every now and then, some app just gets stuck / nonresponsive, can't kill it either, and I have to restart the laptop to make it work again. Usually it's Preview.

I can honestly say that in my experience, MacOS has been the least reliable (while still reasonably reliable), which is upsetting given the cost of getting into Apple ecosystem.
Do you install system-tuning utilities or antivirus like in windows? I had this “syndrome” when I switched to Mac ~15yrs ago. That could be the culprit. From what you experienced above, I only had few app freeze (1-2 times a month). Other than that, it’s been smooth sailing experience (I am using Monterey anyway).
 
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FWIW I have the same exact problem with external drives randomly ejecting, especially during sleep. Sometimes I have to scan them with a Windows box instead for them to even show up in Disk Utility on the Mac, I hadn't tried rooting around in the Mac terminal. It's been very annoying as I keep my drives all in exFAT for at least 13 years now. I started noticing this all the way back in Mountain Lion/Mavericks days and it's never gotten better. Now I make sure not to keep drives connected for extended periods unless I'm using them, if I need to leave the room I play a silent QuickTime file on loop to temporarily prevent sleep.

Macintosh Journaled format never had this issue.
 
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Do you install system-tuning utilities or antivirus like in windows? I had this “syndrome” when I switched to Mac ~15yrs ago. That could be the culprit. From what you experienced above, I only had few app freeze (1-2 times a month). Other than that, it’s been smooth sailing experience (I am using Monterey anyway).
No, only Malwarebytes but it runs on demand, no background monitoring (free version). The non-OS apps I have running in the background are Raycast, sometimes Rectangle, but these are used by millions.
 
FWIW I have the same exact problem with external drives randomly ejecting, especially during sleep. Sometimes I have to scan them with a Windows box instead for them to even show up in Disk Utility on the Mac, I hadn't tried rooting around in the Mac terminal. It's been very annoying as I keep my drives all in exFAT for at least 13 years now. I started noticing this all the way back in Mountain Lion/Mavericks days and it's never gotten better. Now I make sure not to keep drives connected for extended periods unless I'm using them, if I need to leave the room I play a silent QuickTime file on loop to temporarily prevent sleep.

Macintosh Journaled format never had this issue.
Yes, I read that MacOS has a long standing unresolved issue with ExFat formatted external drives. Which is made much worse by them not having an option to cancel the drive scan when reconnecting (which Windows has).

Unfortunately there’s no way around that if I want my drives to be usable with my other computers.

This just feels like a giant “**** you” that Apple sends to the people who dare to not 100% commit to only using their hardware.
 
External disk has been pretty well discussed, like most I don't use exFAT so have never seen that. I do use FAT32-formatted USB or SD storage to transfer files to 3D printers but no issues there - and they're not plugged in for long (just long enough to transfer the print, then eject).

"Trying to quit an app. It can't quit because Finder is using some files." - I've been a virtually 100% Mac user for over a decade. It's possible that I've seen this happen but I couldn't tell you when. It's far from a common issue with macOS - my guess is, related to external files on the exFAT disk or network perhaps?

Preview being "un-killable" and requiring forced restart - also nothing I've personally seen, though I have heard of issues with Preview that some others have reported. I think related to annotating/editing large files? I will occasionally fill in a non-fillable form using annotation, or add a signature... maybe edit a photo... but light stuff. Anything significant, I use Photoshop for photos or Acrobat for PDFs.
 
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