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iPhone 12 Pro Raw vs “Not Raw”
- Thread starter gbf
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I’m not sure either one is “better”.
I was under the impression that RAW has greater flexibility when editing.
I was under the impression that RAW has greater flexibility when editing.
Raw is only going to be better if you edit every single photo. If you just want to take a photo and use it, then turn it off.
In plain English: Do you want ice-cream with all the toppings already added (whether you like it or not) or do you want the option to add toppings later?I have no idea which is better.
In plain English which is better quality?
thank you
For the masses raw images are not required, plus they'll fill up your memory an awful lot quicker.
Well depends if you want each photo you take to be true best possible photo...guess depends how much storage you have
A RAW image file is what it sound like it's supposed to be: an image file of the raw data from the camera and no processing done to it.
When you open it on your device- depending on the device- it will interpret it and give you a rendering of what it should look like meaning very often at first sight you are going to see very little difference.
But the main difference really depends on what can do the best job of rending the image: the camera or the post processing. If the camera (in this case phone) gets the best results then RAW has no use.
And considering how powerful the processing is in the phone, it's quite likely to get it about right most of the time.
Usually, in-device processing will automatically apply things like noise reduction and sharpening and if you then want to post process, these can get in the way and stop you getting better results.
Getting good results from an over sharpened .jpeg, or one that's had heavy noise reduction is a nightmare
If you change lighting conditions and don't like the white balance- say under incandescent lighting for instance where you are seeing a yellow cast- you will almost always get better results adjusting white balance from RAW than from a jpeg.
Similarly, if you process in a really good program you may find you can pull out more dynamic range meaning more detail in highlight and shadows, and you might find the jpeg engine in some programs is better so your jpegs look better than straight out of camera. And some other more elaborate forms of post processing may work better on an image that hasn't had any processing that can't be undone.
For example.
But for most people most of the time, they probably don't want the bother and probably won't see the difference especially if they don't buy a program like Capture One and just process the files on the phone or in Photos anyway.
However, if you can see that something is going to be tricky, like there's a colour cast or it's really low light, then it might be a good compromise to take a few in RAW because you will usually get better results if you play with it.
And of course, post-processing in your digital darkroom can be an enormous pleasure and very satisfying and there's nothing wrong with doing it just because you enjoy it. You will usually get slightly better results.
Hope that helps
When you open it on your device- depending on the device- it will interpret it and give you a rendering of what it should look like meaning very often at first sight you are going to see very little difference.
But the main difference really depends on what can do the best job of rending the image: the camera or the post processing. If the camera (in this case phone) gets the best results then RAW has no use.
And considering how powerful the processing is in the phone, it's quite likely to get it about right most of the time.
Usually, in-device processing will automatically apply things like noise reduction and sharpening and if you then want to post process, these can get in the way and stop you getting better results.
Getting good results from an over sharpened .jpeg, or one that's had heavy noise reduction is a nightmare
If you change lighting conditions and don't like the white balance- say under incandescent lighting for instance where you are seeing a yellow cast- you will almost always get better results adjusting white balance from RAW than from a jpeg.
Similarly, if you process in a really good program you may find you can pull out more dynamic range meaning more detail in highlight and shadows, and you might find the jpeg engine in some programs is better so your jpegs look better than straight out of camera. And some other more elaborate forms of post processing may work better on an image that hasn't had any processing that can't be undone.
For example.
But for most people most of the time, they probably don't want the bother and probably won't see the difference especially if they don't buy a program like Capture One and just process the files on the phone or in Photos anyway.
However, if you can see that something is going to be tricky, like there's a colour cast or it's really low light, then it might be a good compromise to take a few in RAW because you will usually get better results if you play with it.
And of course, post-processing in your digital darkroom can be an enormous pleasure and very satisfying and there's nothing wrong with doing it just because you enjoy it. You will usually get slightly better results.
Hope that helps
A RAW file isn’t a photo. It’s not even an image. It’s data, and I mean “raw” data. Each of the square pixels on your camera sensor picks up a certain amount of light (0 means it was pitch black), and this “intensity” is recorded for each pixel and saved in a file. Again, just numbers. Even without getting too technical, I think you can understand that a pixel that recorded an intensity of 37431 cannot convert 37431 into a colour. Alone, it represents some greyscale value ranging from pitch black to perfect white.
Whatever software you use to view/open the “photo” — your iPhone itself, Lightroom, Photoshop, etc — is taking the RAW file values and doing some crazy interpolations of all the data, and creating a colour (or b&w) photo out of it. The result of this interpolated data is saved as a JPEG. If you are “looking” at a RAW file, then it’s basically a JPEG you’re viewing. A live feed on a camera or iPhone screen is this data interpolation being done in real-time.
RAW files are easier to edit than JPEGs, especially when it comes to colour and white balance, because all the raw data is still there. By editing a RAW “photo”, you’re just telling the software to do the “RAW data” to “photo conversion” differently.
Since every software that can read RAW files has different instructions as to how to convert the data into an image, the way a “RAW photo” looks will vary between software. That’s not true of images (JPEGs, TIFFs).
In comparison, a JPEG is a very explicit set of Red, Green, and Blue (RGB) values assigned to each pixel, and should look exactly the same in every photo software, every browser, and every OS (as long as it’s viewed on the same computer monitor, same iPhone, or same tablet). An actual photo can’t be interpreted in any other way because the colour of each pixel is already set. That limits what can be done to the colours of a photo file, because not only has an RGB value been assigned to each pixel, but JPEGs are only 8-bit per colour, whereas RAW files store much more information than that.
Whatever software you use to view/open the “photo” — your iPhone itself, Lightroom, Photoshop, etc — is taking the RAW file values and doing some crazy interpolations of all the data, and creating a colour (or b&w) photo out of it. The result of this interpolated data is saved as a JPEG. If you are “looking” at a RAW file, then it’s basically a JPEG you’re viewing. A live feed on a camera or iPhone screen is this data interpolation being done in real-time.
RAW files are easier to edit than JPEGs, especially when it comes to colour and white balance, because all the raw data is still there. By editing a RAW “photo”, you’re just telling the software to do the “RAW data” to “photo conversion” differently.
Since every software that can read RAW files has different instructions as to how to convert the data into an image, the way a “RAW photo” looks will vary between software. That’s not true of images (JPEGs, TIFFs).
In comparison, a JPEG is a very explicit set of Red, Green, and Blue (RGB) values assigned to each pixel, and should look exactly the same in every photo software, every browser, and every OS (as long as it’s viewed on the same computer monitor, same iPhone, or same tablet). An actual photo can’t be interpreted in any other way because the colour of each pixel is already set. That limits what can be done to the colours of a photo file, because not only has an RGB value been assigned to each pixel, but JPEGs are only 8-bit per colour, whereas RAW files store much more information than that.
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Is it true that you can't take both raw and jpeg in the same time?View attachment 1698361
Isn’t that exactly what the save as raw settings are for in this screenshot?
Check this thread for some samples -
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/share-your-proraw-edits.2275356/
I prefer RAW because I don't care for the excessive sharpening that Apple applies.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/share-your-proraw-edits.2275356/
I prefer RAW because I don't care for the excessive sharpening that Apple applies.
Nope. JPEG also created for using in regular apps. Also in the iCloud Web you can download JPEG by regular download button and DNG by holding the download button (or pressing little arrow).
iPhone 12 Pro Max - I shot with ProRAW and no JPEG shows in the library or is visible/available when the phone is connected to a computer. When I look at the library with another app (Photo Manager Pro, HashPhoto, Lightroom), only a DNG shows, no JPEG. If you do any edit with Photos, then a JPEG is also available.
Edit: If you share a ProRAW image, a DNG is shared as long no edits have been made. If you edit the image in Photos and then do a share, a JPEG is transferred, not the DNG. (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211965)
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The very easy def : RAW is your like negative film, but in digital version (DNG)
In past we need process roll a film to get photos, RAW is like that.
In past we need process roll a film to get photos, RAW is like that.
Not a single edit (cloud folder):
IMG_1322 — ProRAW turned off.
IMG_1323.jpeg — ProRAW ON, not a single edit (not even opened), straight to iCloud, then downloaded as «Most Compatible»
IMG_1323.DNG — same, downloaded from iCloud as «Original».
Either iPhone or iCloud made this conversion. Still counts as side way jpeg imo
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Not a single edit (cloud folder):
IMG_1322 — ProRAW turned off.
IMG_1323.jpeg — ProRAW ON, not a single edit (not even opened), straight to iCloud, then downloaded as «Most Compatible»
IMG_1323.DNG — same, downloaded from iCloud as «Original».
Either iPhone or iCloud made this conversion. Still counts as side way jpeg imo
iCloud must do it, then (I don't use iCloud) as there is no JPEG on the phone.
Per Apple: "Apple ProRAW combines the information of a standard RAW format along with iPhone image processing, which gives you more flexibility when editing the exposure, color, and white balance in your photo." Hence, the very large DNG file from a 12MP camera. But if you pull the DNG into a third party app like Lightroom (on the phone or a desktop), it does appear to be a "standard" RAW image - Lightroom has not been updated to use the additional info that Apple has included the file.
These guys take a pretty good look at the new format -
https://petapixel.com/2020/12/14/apple-proraw-review-the-best-way-to-shoot-raw-on-an-iphone/
I have no idea which is better.
In plain English which is better quality?
thank you
Understanding ProRAW
We make the most popular RAW camera for iPhone, so when Apple revealed their new ProRAW image format, we were beyond excited. Then they announced it’s coming to the built-in camera app. Many developers in our shoes would freak out, thinking Apple wants to gobble up their customers. We
blog.halide.cam
Been experimenting with both using a 12 ProMax and 11 ProMax.
So far my take has been that ProRAW is more of an “enhanced” JPEG from the general user POV.
Personally for after shot processing, I prefer RAW. Still experimenting with both using LightRoom.
Been playing with it on my 12 Pro Max and LR on the desktop myself. I'm leaning to the ProRaw side. I've been working with similar RAW & ProRAW shots from the 12 and RAW from a Canon 20MP compact and DSLR for comparisons.Understanding ProRAW
We make the most popular RAW camera for iPhone, so when Apple revealed their new ProRAW image format, we were beyond excited. Then they announced it’s coming to the built-in camera app. Many developers in our shoes would freak out, thinking Apple wants to gobble up their customers. We
Been experimenting with both using a 12 ProMax and 11 ProMax.
So far my take has been that ProRAW is more of an “enhanced” JPEG from the general user POV.
Personally for after shot processing, I prefer RAW. Still experimenting with both using LightRoom.