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RealNetworks Slashes Song Prices

I haven't read all 200 something messages, but...

WHY DON'T WE START A PETITION AGAINST REAL?

Can we do that! I bet we can get A LOT of people signing a petition against them.
 
Yay! I'm a zealot

padrino121 said:
Actually I think the petition shows how pathetic Apple zealots can be.

If this were Apple doing the very same thing to another competitor who had a lock on the market you would all be behind Apple cheering. Another win for the "little guy" as everyone says. It really stings when it's turned around on Apple.

I've used, administered, developed on OSX, BSD, Linux, Solaris, and Windows and have had experience will the zealots of each platform. It's amazing how all of the Apple zealots sound just like the Windows ones you trash all of the time. In the end you are all alike, just behind what each considers a winning solution.
Click to expand...

Apple is now the big-bad, Apple users who disagree are zealots. To think that Real is doing this out of a desperate attempt to get publicity and not for the good of the user is pure zealotism at its heart.
Silly me, and I thought that Real doing this, you know the guys who made Real Player the definition of spyware, who intentionally obfuscated the link to the free player, who created a buggy awful program and then tried to sell it as 'freedom.' Real took the iTMS idea, but cut out Mac users (that's me and I tend to take that personally), they tied their system to Windows Media Player because Microsoft needs another leg to their monopoly, and then they try to undercut my choice system in an attempt to gain market-share for theirs.
Just why exactly should I consider Real anything but a pimple on the ass of IT?
Apple has managed to create a good business, not a perfect one, but one that has real potential to change the face of digital music, challenge the over-riding, and dare I say choice-limiting, power of both Microsoft and the RIAA, and works with OSX. So, why do I want to choose Real again?
Oh right because they stand for 'freedom' and 'choice' and 'apple-pie' and 'grandma' and I'm just a dumb zealot for disagreeing. Thanks for taking the public discourse down to name-calling.
I still haven't seen the face of Masada.
 
Why should Apple handle Real's tech support?

Some posters have already mentioned that, in the course of applying other updates to iPod, Apple could 'break' Harmony without even meaning to. Of course, Apple would be portrayed as the villain of the piece. Real would sit back and just blame Apple for everything. They would have little call to support their own 'product.'

Whether Apple should 'open' the iPod is a legitimate question, perhaps deserving of a separate thread. However, Real is out of line--period. Any 'opening' of iPod (to the extent that it actually IS 'closed') should be done in an orderly fashion, with all vendors on the same page. This is the only way that the customer can expect proper treatment. As it stands, the iPod is Apple's product, and they should in no way be responsible for supporting Real's technology, as it has been applied.
 
Tell me, is Real's store open in Australia?
And also tell me, is iTMS open in Australia?

If Real's is open in Australia, then **** Apple. Real, Give me my Harmony! I want a music store dammit, and I don't care who it's from, as long as it's music works on my iPod!

And I'm gonna sign that Don't Break my iPod petition! Think about it, if all the people who buy thier music on competeing music stores are able to play their music on iPods, then that would mean that everyone that uses those other stores would get an iPod! Harmony is good!

I'm pro Apple, but they should open their arms wide, and support others. Feel free to berate me.

Edit: Here is my petition signiture! It's number 602!
602. Jalexster

Edit 2: About the avalability of the music stores, I don't know if Real's is open in Australia, but if it is, then I'll use it, because the iTMS sure isn't.
Don't get me wrong, if Apple opened the iTMS in Australia, Then I'd use that instead of course. However, I still think Harmony is a good idea. Open the iPod. It dosen't endanger FairPlay, it just allows more music on the iPod.
 
The iPod is already "open" -- it supports the format that 99% of music is purchased in, namely, CDs, as well as a number of other open formats, such as MP3s and unprotected AAC. What Real is complaining about is that the iPod doesn't happen to support their own, proprietary DRM.
Click to expand...
Nailed it in one!

That's the TRUE argument.

It's not about 'freedom', it's about Real trying to make more money.

When you use RealPlayer to manage your iPod, RealPlayer does not delete any content from your iPod unless you specify.
Click to expand...
The iPod was designed to be a one way transfer. This is to appease the RECORDING INDUSTRY, not for Apple's benefit. If the Real Player software works differently to iTunes Sync, then they risk losing all support from the record labels that supply their online store.

As for selling 192kbps songs... the store could have a few options. Actually, they really only need two, 128kbps and lossless.

I'm all for ONE non-proprietary format for ALL online stores, and I hope a time will come where this happens, but Real are not going about it the right way.
 
...

I dunno, Apple made the iPod, they have the right to decide what they want people to play on it. Real Network just wants a piece of the iPod.

iPod = Coolness, then maybe Real Network = Coolness...(not at all cool)

I think this is horrible. If Apple can do anything, I think they should. Besides Apple knows what their doing, Real Network is just doing this for the money, they probably need it...badly...

:mad:
 
Umm... not illegal? Seriously!

Spades said:
I see you have no clue how this whole system works. Real has not hacked the DRM on iTMS files. They just have a method to add DRM to their own files that is compatible with Fairplay. They've cracked nothing. What they do is take the DRM off of their own files and apply DRM to them that works just like Fairplay does. The result is a Fairplay-compatible DRM file.

No cracking of DRM involved. Nothing's broken.

There's also absolutely nothing illegal about this. The algorithm behind Fairplay isn't patented. As I understand it, it's just a little fiddling with AES. It probably isn't patentable, even if Apple had tried. Patent protection is the only possible way Real could have been kept from doing this. But with no patent, there's nothing wrong being done here.

And if Real's selling at a lower price with higher quality, it might encourage Apple to try to match the competition. Competition is good.
Click to expand...


While Apple may not have a patent on the DRM they have developed, it's still a violation of copyright law (which is the issue here) since Real had to "reverse engineer" the DRM files. It's illegal to reverse engineer a copyrighted product, thus the reason we can't make "legal" copies of DVD or CDs. While it may be technically feasible to do so, it's still illegal. That said, I'm all for competition. I'm an admitted Apple zealot, but only after YEARS of suffering through a Windows dominated suckfest. Competition is certainly great for us (the consumers) because it means lower prices and better products... And since we're talking about it, let's be "real"... Real Networks (nor Apple) wants competition in any market. That's why we have anti-trust laws... to avoid the monopolies of the world. (And no I don't believe MS is a monopoly, so don't go there.) Real would much rather "use" a "compatible" version of FairPlay to its advantage while circumventing the licensing fees that would normally have to incur from any other company with a similar process. For example, they have to pay a license for WMA compatibility... which incidentally also doesn't work on a Mac (even using MS's own Windows Media Player for Mac)... go figure.

Point is, the zealots are not responding because they are zealots... the consumers are making their voice heard... providing their "choice" for music freedom. It appears that we'd like the "freedom of music choice", so long as Real is not involved.
 
I Did It

I hoped on a friends PC to download an exclusive acoustic Something Corporate EP from. One problem. Any idea how to play .rax files on Panther? :confused:
 
You're right. You're missing something.

Stewie said:
I must be missing something. If I own the best digital audio player, the iPod, and then have the ability to buy music from more then 1 site how is this bad?

I really think that having multiple site to buy songs for the iPod is the only way that iPod will stay the #1 digital music player. Otherwise once MS and more WMA site go online, Apple will follow in its traditional role of an innovator and not the leader in a field.
Click to expand...

Even before Real stole Apple's technology you had the ability to buy music for your iPod from more than one site. You could buy CDs from a zillion stores or buy MP3 music from a variety of stores or AAC from Apple. Any one of those works with iPods.

Adding one more source doesn't increase your freedom of choice significantly. It does, however, lessen the value of Apple's intellectual property - and potentially create huge problems for Apple (such as when Harmony erases a few GB of music on someone's iPod and they call Apple to complain).

Harmony is theft. Pure and simple.
 
Not quite.

djsteele said:
Point is, the zealots are not responding because they are zealots... the consumers are making their voice heard... providing their "choice" for music freedom. It appears that we'd like the "freedom of music choice", so long as Real is not involved.
Click to expand...

We like choice - as long as it's done legally and fairly.

If Real had created a system to sell MP3 files, no one would complain. But they didn't. They stole Apple's intellectual property and lessened the value of the brand (by creating a shoddy, clumsy knockoff).
 
Real crappy

We should start boycotting companies that preinstal real player with there machine for instance hp comes with real player so we stop buying hp printers until they stop preinstalling real player this is the way to get the message through to real 20 million + mac users boycotting companies that use there products has got to hurt them
 
Boycott HP? Nah, HP doesn't care if Mac users boycott them.
Besides, HP also preinstalls iTunes.

Nah, I'd rather boycott RealPooper, I mean Player.
 
I don't care what Real does until any worthy music download service comes to Australia.

I never liked Real Player...
 
What if these crappy imitation files by Real cause the whole iPod software to reset and go in to an infinite loop etc..

Apple could use this as an argument, that Real's files could be harmful to their product.
 
jragosta said:
Harmony is theft. Pure and simple.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but this is just hilarious.

Harmony is theft. Does that mean I'll feel harmonious if I steal stuff? Or that anything that is in harmony is theft? :)

The way its written sounds very funny if someone didn't know what the subject was.
 
supermegatron said:
We should start boycotting companies that preinstal real player with there machine for instance hp comes with real player so we stop buying hp printers until they stop preinstalling real player this is the way to get the message through to real 20 million + mac users boycotting companies that use there products has got to hurt them
Click to expand...

i wouldn't call a 0-5% fall in profits drastic

(sorry)
 
djsteele said:
While Apple may not have a patent on the DRM they have developed, it's still a violation of copyright law (which is the issue here) since Real had to "reverse engineer" the DRM files. It's illegal to reverse engineer a copyrighted product, thus the reason we can't make "legal" copies of DVD or CDs.
Click to expand...

Unless Real outright copied Apple code, copyright law isn't going to help Apple any. Reverse-engineering is about specifically avoiding copying code. You figure out how something works so that you can make your own version of that. Reverse-engineering is not illegal. The DMCA, about as harsh of a regulation of copyright as there is, even specifically allows for reverse-engineering for the purpose of interoperability. In other words, there's a very clear exception in the law allowing what Real has done.

Making a copy of a DVD by breaking the encryption is not reverse-engineering. The action there is the breaking of encryption on a specific work. It's not the reverse-engineering of an algorithm. They're not at all alike.

Apple just doesn't have anything they can do about this. Only two things applied to the Fairplay software; copyright and secrecy. Since Real seems to be adding Fairplay to their files, and Apple never publicly released that software, it seems very unlikely Real copied Apple's code. As for the algorithm being secret, Real would again have to have screwed up and outright stolen information from Apple. Presumably Real isn't that stupid and they made a clean implementation. In that case, Apple has no recourse.

Yeah, it does suck for Apple. But then, it also sucked for IBM when the PC BIOS was reverse engineered. IBM clones were a big win for everybody else though. Maybe this will be too.
 
Arcady said:
49 cents won't seem like much of a bargain when Apple updates the iPod to break all songs from Real's site...
Click to expand...


ahhh. i was thinking that to... although people won't download the update if it won't allow them to play the song...they need to hide the feature and make new feature's availible so that people will upgrade the software to have these "newer" features
 
New Petition

Hey guys, I created a new petition addressed to RealNetworks concerning Harmony. Sign it.

http://www.petitiononline.com/0harmony/petition.html
------------
To:* RealNetworks

Dear RealNetworks & Rob Glaser,

We request that you cancel the Harmony software/service.

Your creation of Harmony is not for giving consumers "freedom of choice," but demonstrates the desperation of one company to prey & scavenge on, and siphon funds from one popular movement created by another, apparently much more creative one.

Harmony really destroys the user experience of the iPod, because it is not just a product, but a SEAMLESS relationship between it and the iTunes Music Store. By creating Harmony, you are only breaking that great, SEAMLESS relationship between the two.

The iPod/iTunes Music Store was created with the intent of that relationship by Apple, and RealNetworks has no right to manipulate the creation of another company or individual. That only shows your limited capability of running a corporation, and your lack of creative vision.

Many people with a common vision worked long and hard to make that vision come true. You simply cannot STEAL those hours, that energy, and most importantly, that vision right from under them. That would make you a thief.

If anyone "breaks" my iPod, it will be YOU, Rob Glaser. Don't mess with it.
Go out and create your own innovative service for once.

Sincerely,

The Undersigned
 
esoteric arguments

A lot of these arguments are interesting but esoteric. The copyright issue, whether Real did or didn't "crack" anything, and whether Apple should or should not 'open' the iPod not not, to my mind, the important topics.

Here is the only issue that matters to me.

Have you seen the tagline for Alien Vs. Predator? Whoever wins...we lose.

Its kind of the same deal here, folks. There *will* be a monopoly eventually. It cannot be avoided. Business models naturally evolve (or maybe devolve) into these things for the most part. Particularly in tech.

And the simple question is this: should Apple monopolize this piece of the pie or should fat-ass Microsoft get another helping of our "digital lifestyle." Because any victory for Real is damn sure, eventually, a victory for MS. Now, in all ugly candor, Microsuck may end up beating Apple at this game too, regardless of what Real does.

However, since Apple does have the advantage of a massive, leveragable marketshare this time (and a CEO with his hand deep, deep in the content side of the pie with Pixar), they do have a chance.

Raise your hand if you think Rob Glaser and Real stand a chance against Bad Billy Gates and Steve "Mad Dog" Ballmer...

I'm waiting...

So I say, in the immortal words from the pen of Kevin Smith:
"**** Real, **** them in their stupid *****!"
 
11 pages of stuff I'm simply not going to read, so if its been said before, I apologise, honestly, you people are so selfish for having such a long discussion! :p

ANYWAY, I don't see the big deal, the profit to be had from the iTMS is minimal to Apple, obviously, not even a drop in an ocean. Its just to get people to buy iPods. Real provides music downloads that will work on the iPod, this will help increase iPod sales because Real's songs are cheaper. The iTMS still has the biggest library (although I still can't find stuff I want, yet it is easily available on Amazon (and cheaper than it would be on iTMS if I could've bought it)), so that will still be the main attraction.

I just don't get it, HOW does it damage apple? Forget about whether what Real did was wrong or not.

Also, wishing a company to go bust (making alot of people unemployed) isn't very nice.
 
WebScud said:
I hoped on a friends PC to download an exclusive acoustic Something Corporate EP from. One problem. Any idea how to play .rax files on Panther? :confused:
Click to expand...

Excuse my language, but what the hell is a ".rax"...

Why can't we just stick to the basics? MP3s and AACs?

We don't need Sony's R2-D2-C-3P0-T-16 format ;)
 
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