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Reason for people's problems with OS X

D

derekamoss

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jul 18, 2002
1,497
1,165
Houston, TX
I've been using Macs since OS 9 on an iBook G3 and have updated to every OS update since then and multiple Macs as well. I have never had a single problem with the OS being destroyed by an update. I however keep a pretty clean and default OS. I always here people complaining about how this happened after an update or that happened and believe it's because of the people who install 100 menubar items, modify the way the dock appears, or modify anything in the OS. Or the people who have 100 items in their startup items, or people who download 100 extensions for safari. Or by doing a clean install but using a time machine image because the software or hack is still there. All of these things make the OS either slower, buggy, or non start-able. I'm not saying users shouldn't be able to do these things. They should have every right to make the OS work the way they want to, but they shouldn't expect apple to fix something that they have caused on their own. You just have to decide if the software is worth the hassle. I also have no problem with people who ask for assistance when something goes wrong after doing it, as long as they aren't complaining at apple to fix the problem for them

Right now my OS is running 10.7.3, has been updated through software update from 10.7.0 every time. I clean installed when Lion came out, as I have done every new OS update. I updated all through Snow Leopard without any issues at all. My computer is just as fast as it was when I first got it, actually faster since I installed Ram and a 7200 HD.
 
I also heard that if you never use the computer, it never has any technical defects and no bugs and no security issues.

Big version jumps in the OS, like SL to Lion, only happen every other year. They will break stuff, that's hard to avoid, and people should carefully evaluate their setup before upgrading. I also agree that a clean install of a new OS is the best way to avoid problems.

On the other hand, small patches for an OS version that fix e.g. security issues should have as little impact as possible.
 
Overall, I've had very few problems with the OS since 84'. OS X Lion was an exception, despite the fact that I keep a fairly clean System. Files began to disappear from Finder, zoom mode would not stick. I'd get beachballing when the network ran into trouble. Not enough to force me back to Snow Leopard, but bugs made using Mac-Lion a bit of a chore.
Having seen and used every System version put out for Macs, I can assure you that Apple got sloppy on this one.
Fortunately, things are slowly getting better.
 
I've had Macs since 2005, my first was an iBook G4. Strangely enough, the very first software update I had killed the modem (that was back in the days of dial-up, when dinosaurs roamed the earth) and I had to re-install from the recovery disk. I was really pissed and ready to dump the iBook on CL, but decided to give it a 2nd chance. I re-installed OSx (don't remember what version), ran the update again, and this time it was fine.

Since then I've purchased 5 more Macs and never had an issue with software update. In line with the OP thoughts, I've never added any "tweaks" to the OS to get all the weird (to me) options. I've kept the system stock and the updates have also gone well.

This being said, I have 3 Macs running 10.7.2, but I'm holding off on 10.7.3 until I find out more. I have multiple bootable backups (from SuperDuper) of each system, but I don't want to go through the hassle of having to restore and re-run the update via combo, so I'm going to wait and see.

I have often wondered if the reason some people have so much trouble with software update is that they install all these weird tweaks and extensions. I'm not against them; if you want to play that's fine.
 
I mentioned that in another thread. Have 4 Macs and had no problems with upgrades or updates all the way from leopard. Did have a problem with an upgrade on an iPad to iOS5, but it fixed itself automatically.

I'm guessing its just on an internet forum you will always get people who report problems that probably comprise less then 1% of users and do not necessarily represent the majority of people who have no issues.
 
I agree one hundred precent. I just find it funny that people won't admit to their own fault and continuously say Apple messed up my system. The only thing they are required to fix are things that bugged in a clean install of 10.7.0.
Not bugs that were created by the software. I also love how when an update does break a program, the yell at apple to fix more then the developer of the program at hand. It's not apples fault that developers haven't been testing their software with the developer builds before hand. This thread pretty much sums it up. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1317887/
 
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In another thread you reported this as well derekamoss, and I to agree with you. Since I installed 10.7.3 twice now on a clean hard drive, no fancy applications or messing with the OS one bit, all is fine. If one reads computer forums for a long time, you begin to understand that some individuals caused the issues themselves. But, it also could be an issue with the download, but since I'm not an expert, its only a guess. If it works for most of us as reported on some computer sites, and worked for me twice without issues, not messing with any computer code or using some fancy items, just default for the most part, than there must be an underlining cause by something or someone else
 
derekamoss said:
I've been using Macs since OS 9 on an iBook G3 and have updated to every OS update since then and multiple Macs as well. ...
Click to expand...
This from a Mac user since 1989. Although I partially agree with thundersteele's critique of you in Post #2, I agree with your fundamental point. I do not treat my Macs with kid gloves. However, I don't do stupid. Elsewhere on this forum is a new thread from a genius who renamed the Trash. Now his Trash doesn't work. Duh!

We know that many users have problems because they are running pirated downloads of MacOS X. This means that they have no clue what they are actually running. I am convinced that many users have enabled root and use root as their primary account. Many share a single account with friends and family. I could go on.

MacOS X 10.7 is the most powerful operating system ever put into the hands of ordinary citizens. With great power, however, comes great responsibility. You don't bang on steel with a hammer near an open gasoline tank.
 
MisterMe said:
...With great power, however, comes great responsibility. You don't bang on steel with a hammer near an open gasoline tank.
Click to expand...

Looking for a gas leak with a bic lighter is my favorite! :D

I have to admit, I read dozens of posts every day from some guy who destroyed his Windows box or his Mac by "tinkering" with something he should have left alone. More often than not, the poor guy is rather proud of himself for "taking the initiative" to break things so badly and is rather upset that somebody from Redmond or Cupertino hasn't already boarded a plane to come flying to his aid. There's a good reason why the IT guys have an inside joke that the most common error is the "ID-10-T Error".

I once saw one of our IT newbies running a web browser from the # prompt. Oh yeah. That's what he needed to do. Run a web browser not only as an admin account but go all the way and run the darn thing as root! :rolleyes:
 
I have never customized the software on any of my devices and I find Lion an awful OS to use.
 
I think Apple may be thinking the same as the OP, and that this will eventually lead to a much more im-personal personal computer. The control they have over the iOS means that everything does run better, although still not seamlessly, even for a conservative user. But I also don't see Adobe, MS, etc going into the Mac App Store. But, considering the inroads that iPads are making in the business environment, ya never know.

Unfortunately computers are still too hard to use. You can see posts here from users confused with simple things because the interface is outdated and counterintuitive. I still have to explain the difference between volumes and folders, move vs. copy, trash vs. eject, and other things. The desktop thing is pretty worn out; hasn't the success of the iOS shown us it's time for some new thinking?

Maybe those Foxconn engineers will come up with something new...they've already got hardware sorted, all they need now is a good OS.
 
thundersteele said:
I also heard that if you never use the computer, it never has any technical defects and no bugs and no security issues.

Big version jumps in the OS, like SL to Lion, only happen every other year. They will break stuff, that's hard to avoid, and people should carefully evaluate their setup before upgrading. I also agree that a clean install of a new OS is the best way to avoid problems.

On the other hand, small patches for an OS version that fix e.g. security issues should have as little impact as possible.
Click to expand...

I have the most secure laptop on the planet. It is a dell with no battery in a box in my back office. :D
 
I'm new to Mac,s and Lion is my first experience with there OS and have been very pleased with it on my Air I purchased in July.

A few months later I was talking to there support on the phone and he mentioned I should always do a fix permission before any update or application install. I have followed this advice and have never had any problems with the 3 updates .
 
tecknik1 said:
I'm new to Mac,s and Lion is my first experience with there OS and have been very pleased with it on my Air I purchased in July.

A few months later I was talking to there support on the phone and he mentioned I should always do a fix permission before any update or application install. I have followed this advice and have never had any problems with the 3 updates .
Click to expand...
Welcome to the Mac.

Personal anecdote: I update one application or another virtually everyday. If I repaired permissions every time I updated software, I would have very little time left to do my work. I repair permissions less than once per year with no ill effects.

Back in the early days of MacOS X, users in search of something to fix glommed onto permissions repair as their routine maintenance activity of choice. Just as a placebo may help the odd patient with low blood sugar, repairing permissions may help the odd Mac user. For the vast majority, however, it does nothing. The upside is that repairing permissions can do no harm other than wasting your time.
 
derekamoss said:
I agree one hundred precent. I just find it funny that people won't admit to their own fault and continuously say Apple messed up my system. The only thing they are required to fix are things that bugged in a clean install of 10.7.0.
Not bugs that were created by the software. I also love how when an update does break a program, the yell at apple to fix more then the developer of the program at hand. It's not apples fault that developers haven't been testing their software with the developer builds before hand. This thread pretty much sums it up. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1317887/
Click to expand...


As a IT professional I have to say that you are off the mark. 10.7 is full of bugs and the first patch they release doesn't fix problems but rather introduces new features. Then another patch comes out that doesn't fix any of the major problems either. Now the third is out and it is crashing systems.

10.7 was not ready for release yet they pushed it out the door. My macbook, that was rock solid on 10.6, now has kernel panics and two people I know had their systems crash during the update to 10.7.3 and they are IT people as well. These were not "custom" systems, they were normal fresh installs.

So, does Apple have a problem? Yes, Lion has been crap and it looks like it still is.:rolleyes:
 
First, Apple designs its operating systems to be installed in place as an upgrade rather than as a clean install. The default with Lion is to do an upgrade. In fact, for people like myself, who at the time of upgrade to Lion purchased a new internal hard drive and installed Lion on a clean, never used drive, it was necessary to "hack" the default way of installing by taking the installer out of the package and writing it to an external disk.

Second, after performing a clean install of Lion on a brand new hard drive, I experienced so many problems with Lion that I downgraded within 24 hours. Bluetooth File Exchange's interface had not been touched and a result of changing some of the APIs in Lion, actual pieces of the interface, buttons, were missing. The computer was running much hotter, and processes in QuickTime and Screensharing were running out of control. It was running so hot and slow that Quicktime recordings were taking up twice as much hard drive space as usual at the same encoding (Quicktime recordings are compressed at larger file sizes when less CPU is available for the encoding—sounds strange, but it's true).

After I reinstalled Snow Leopard, my performance was back to normal.

I have used Apple computers since the Apple IIC. I was a public beta-tester of Mac OS X 10.0. For me, every version of Mac OS X has been an improvement and sometimes even improved performance of my Macs until Mac OS X 10.7.
 
robgendreau said:
Maybe those Foxconn engineers will come up with something new...they've already got hardware sorted, all they need now is a good OS.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing! If Apple's corporate office's were under as much pressure as they put their contractors under, I'm not sure you would see this decline in software quality control (not that either should be under such duress). I've been a Mac user for a long, long time, but I have no idea if I'll buy a Mac as my next computer because of the software, while my main reason for staying is the solid-as-a-rock unibody MacBook Pro, which hardware-wise, I have no issues with. It's a strange turnabout as I used to putting up with crappier hardware from Apple for the good software.

I'm actually thinking of trying out Windows 7 on my MBP as by summer my MobileMe services will no longer work on my Snow Leopard Mac, and I don't want to upgrade to Lion, but the services will work on Vista or Windows 7. I really find it odd that I have to upgrade operating systems—either to Windows Vista, Windows 7, or Lion—to continue using the same e-mail I have for the last 10 years. Have you ever heard of e-mail that is OS dependent before? It's a complete step backward in the history of e-mail!

Update:

I was trying to confirm whether my mail service will really stop working this summer. This is what I was told:

Representative:
As im sure your already aware of, to use iCloud on the Mac for syncing you will need the Mac OS X 10.7.2. To upgrade your Mac OS X to Lion you will wish to purchase the software upgrade from a Retail Apple Store or online at the App Store at this link: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/os-x-lion/id444303913?mt=12 and there is also this simple guide http://www.apple.com/macosx/how-to-buy/ . I can however provide you with this article http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4929 which discusses "What if my device or computer doesn't meet iCloud system requirements?".

Me:
I see from the article you sent me that iCloud's mail can be configured manually to work with any mail application. But while the article refers to iCloud, in the sever settings, it lists MobileMe server settings. And my concern is that those servers will not be open for business after the transition.

Representative:
Its not supported and may not work as expected unfortunately.

Me:
I have to say, I have paid for .Mac and MobileMe for a long time, and I get much better service and support from free services like Gmail. I have never heard of e-mail becoming obsolete after a new operating system comes out. Or with my iDisk files being deleted: Tripod, for example, is a free hosting company that still hosts files I placed on their servers in the late 1990s.

Representative:
As technology grows the requirements to use the new technology also changes. Unfortunately iCloud requires 10.7.2 to be fully functional.

Me:
The technology hasn't grown. I have used Apple's e-mail service since December 2000, when iTools was released. E-mail has existed since the early 1970s. This is the first time I have ever heard of an OS-dependent e-mail system. It is actually a huge step backward in the history of e-mail. E-mail is an open protocol and to tie down a service someone has used for 10 years to a buggy operating system is why even as Apple's sales are reaching new heights, it is losing some of its most loyal customers, who have been there from the beginning.

And if what you were saying is true, you would be saying that OS X 10.6 is technologically inferior to Windows Vista, because Apple makes iCloud available to Windows Vista users, which is a generation old operating system, and Apple mercilessly attacked Windows Vista in its commercials when OS X 10.6 was Apple's latest OS.


_____

Afterward I apologized profusely for getting upset, etc.
 
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We can now add mine to that list. Rebooted to be met with the no folder found error. Yep, 10.7.3 SUCKS!
 
I ran across a way to make Snow Leopard work with iCloud for contacts and calendar sync. The only thing missing is photostream and that's only a matter of time. But I thought this thread was about how some users bring bad things on themselves by "poking the sleeping dragon" regardless of their OS and not another Lion sucks Apple is going to go out of business why did I ever switch from Windows OMG the sky is falling thread.
 
swingerofbirch said:
I was trying to confirm whether my mail service will really stop working this summer. This is what I was told
Click to expand...

iCloud eMail is IMAP and SMTP based, and that won't suddenly change in the summer. If you just want to take advantage of the eMail part of iCloud, you can do so even using Snow Leopard.

iCloud Mail uses IMAP and SMTP standards supported by most modern email applications. While applications not manufactured by Apple are not supported by Apple, you can use the server information below to manually configure your email application for use with iCloud.
Click to expand...
 
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tkermit said:
iCloud eMail is IMAP and SMTP based, and that won't suddenly change in the summer. If you just want to take advantage of the eMail part of iCloud, you can do so even using Snow Leopard.
Click to expand...

That is good to know. I have on numerous occasions tried to clarify this with Apple, and they have no idea. Loss of e-mail would be my most major interruption, so that's why I am checking on that now. I'm one of the suckers who actually paid for the "most prestigious address on the net" for years and thought I was losing even that. I'm kind of stubborn about switching e-mail addresses or I would have jumped to Gmail as my full-time address a long time ago.
 
One thing to remember, is that on an Internet forum, people will come and complain in swarms with issues, but when everything works, they are happy. They (usually) don't come just to say, (*switch to cheesy happy voice*) "I'm so happy, everything works exactly as I want it to, without anything special!".
 
Most people like to panic if something doesn't quite work. Just ask a car/truck mechanic sometimes and that person could tell home some very humorous stories about people.

Lion did have mucky roll out of iCloud, just like the MobileMe roll out. The server address were canged DAYS after it first was turned on. Plus Apple really didn't tell people to use System Preferences->iCloud plane first before setting up Mail for iCloud. That pane will automate the email server settings for the iCloud servers in Mail, Address book, iPhoto Stream.

Two is wireless networking and the SMB debacle! In wireless networking is 90% percent of wireless troubles in OS X can be cured if the OS X user goes to System Preferences->Network pane and use the Location drop-down to create a new custom named Location. This fixes a lot of wireless problems for OS X.
 
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