Reasons NOT to buy an iMac Right now

[craig1410]

Let me introduce you to a concept, I like to call it Rev. A. The new iMacs are a Rev. A item. Rev. A's are pretty much beta testers, although they might not know it. Some people think this idea is B.S. but I can't tell you how many times I've seen it proven to be true. It's always a bad idea to get the first of anything new when it comes to technology. It's even true with cars. I'm just telling you from experience, and casting the Apple "fanboy-ism" aside.

Most of the "bugs" and issues, from what I've read have been ironed out at this point with the new iMacs (except that crappy graphics card and its drivers...it's been months and people are still waiting on fixes), so if you can't hold on you should be fine with buying now (well...at least wait till october 26th when Leopard comes out). However, if it were my money, I'd wait for the Rev. B iMacs.

I'll bet you money the Rev. B iMacs have far better screens (along with all the other minor upgrades that come with each Rev.).

...and of course Apple will be happy to share the revision level information with us won't they? Yeah right!

If there is a major problem with your "Rev A" machine then you just send it back under warranty. In the UK at least, under the sale of good act, if there is a problem within the first 6 months then the onus is on the manufacturer to "prove" that it is not a manufacturing defect. After 6 months that onus falls to the customer. So basically, make sure you are happy within the first 6 months and send it back if you are not.

Cheers,
Craig.

 

[stainlessliquid]

Get a WHITE 20" imac if you can, much much better screen.

My college just got some 20" aluminum imacs, and my god the screen is terrible. Just as bad as the old 17" imacs. It has nothing to do with the backlight, the backlight is nice and bright. Its the viewing angle. It has the viewing angle of a 5 year old budget LCD. Its so bad that the colors change if you just move your head a couple inches up or down.

Its impossible not to see the bad viewing angle on these machines, people who dont notice just how bad it is probably have been living with a bad LCD for awhile and think its normal. Look at a solid color background, the top will be darker than the bottom, only the middle area at eye level is correct. Tilt it to look from below, the top will be very dark and high contrast, tilt it to look from above and it will be very washed out and almost white. A good LCD with a high viewing angle doesnt do that, it looks uniform at all angles unless you look at it from like and extreme angle to the side.

I have a Dell 2005fpw, its an old widescreen monitor that uses the same LCD as the Apple Cinema Displays, the viewing angle is fantastic and there are no gradient or light/dark issues at all. I believe the 20" WHITE imacs use the same panel, since Ive seen them and they look pretty much the same as my monitor (not as bright though).

Any slight speed improvement in the aluminum imac is trivial compared to the screen quality of the 20" white imac, the white one is a much better machine. Dont take the LCD quality for granted, your eyes will thank you later.

 

[Stridder44]

Absolutely true and good advice. (If by "far better" you mean the same grade panels, but ones with far fewer of these issues. I doubt they will upgrade the panels to a much higher grade.)

I will just add the caveat that a Rev A does not guarantee you will have problems. Skipping a Rev A also does not guarantee that you won't have problems. You are just shifting your odds. Is that shift significant? Is it worthwhile versus not having the Mac at all and the troubles associated with waiting for a Rev B? That is for each person to judge.

Bingo.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Its impossible not to see the bad viewing angle on these machines, people who dont notice just how bad it is probably have been living with a bad LCD for awhile and think its normal.

I believe the 20" WHITE imacs use the same panel, since Ive seen them and they look pretty much the same as my monitor (not as bright though).

Which 17" iMacs? The G5s or the Intels? I don't know if they used the same panel but there is one sitting right next me every and it looks fine. Maybe the ones your school bought are terrible or the lighting is off in the building... I don't know, but every Alu iMac I have seen has been fine, viewing angle and all. And I have been using ASDs and ACDs for more than four years, no bad displays in my camp.

As for the 20" white iMac and Dell 20" monitor, their screens were much brighter than the 20" ACD. Even the 17" G5 iMac sitting next to me has a brighter screen.

 

[richkent72]

I've had my 20" iMac for several weeks now.

(1) No problems with freezing either before or after the revision

(2) Yes, the screen colours do shift obviously if you have a solid colour on your screen. But this isn't what you usually have while you're using your computer. I accept that this screen isn't suitable for pro or keen amateur photographers but for the rest of us it's fine.

(3) There's no guarantee that Revision B won't have a whole new set of issues.

(4) Get Apple Care and if it turns out you've got a dud, send it back.

 

[eianto]

What Is The Problem!!!!!

Everyone I Purchasde My Imac 24 Inch 2 Days Ago Thi Smachine Works Like A Well Oiled Machine! I Have No Issues With My Screen It Is Gorgeous! Did Ichat With My Neighbor It Was Excellent, This Machine Doesn't Even Make A Sound! Then Just Last Night I Installed Boot Camp 1.4b Installed Win Xp Performance Edition Then Installed The New Ati Drivers, Then I Installed Call Of Duty 4 Demo! Holy S@$%
It Look Like I Was Playing It On The Xbox 360 No F#@&*^ Joke!

So It Is Like They Say It Depends What Day Your (car) Imac Was Made If It Was A Monday It Might Be Good Might Not If It Was A Friday Your Got A Lemon If It Was On Wednesday You Got A Good Machine Production Levels Are Highr Than Dip Thursday!

Hahahahhahahahaha!
:d

 

[AnthonyCM]

Now or next Friday?

I'm 99% sure I'm going with a 20" iMac. The question is if I should get this weekend or wait until Leopard is pre-installed. I was thinking that I should get OSX now, spend the $10 on Leopard, and then wait to hear about any bugs before installing it on my system. I know people who still wish they never had installed Vista on their PC, and I don't want the same to happen to me and Leopard.

Any thoughts?

 

[9Charms]

Mark me down as a proponent of the "Don't buy a Rev A" concept...

I heard there will be a significant wait until most software is optimized for the new graphics cards in these iMacs. Apparently the Windows world hasn't even got much working well under these Radeon HD video cards.

 

[stainlessliquid]

Which 17" iMacs? The G5s or the Intels? I don't know if they used the same panel but there is one sitting right next me every and it looks fine. Maybe the ones your school bought are terrible or the lighting is off in the building... I don't know, but every Alu iMac I have seen has been fine, viewing angle and all. And I have been using ASDs and ACDs for more than four years, no bad displays in my camp.

As for the 20" white iMac and Dell 20" monitor, their screens were much brighter than the 20" ACD. Even the 17" G5 iMac sitting next to me has a brighter screen.

G5, Ive never seen an intel 17" (and vice versa, Ive only seen an intel 20").

Lighting doesnt affect viewing angle, plus the 20" white imac looks great compared to the 20" aluminum one next to it. I dont see why Apple would ship some macs with good displays and others with crappy displays, the only explanation could be that some of the first alum imacs got leftover 20" displays made for the white imacs. The macs at school are only a couple weeks old and every single one of them look exactly the same.

I would take a picture of the viewing angle if I had a camera.
The screen is similair to this quality at very conservative angles:

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/feedback/20in_iMac_display_issues.html

As you can see the new imacs indeed have a worse LCD than the white imac. But 160 seems too exagerated or 170 was too modest (I think my dell had a 176 or 178 degree angle), there is indeed more than a 10 degree difference between the 2 as far as picture degrading is concerned. What happens is that looking from below causes the light pixels to invert to dark, while looking from the top causes the dark pixels to invert to light, thats why there is a gradient at small angles while things can become illegible at larger angles.

On the other hand it looks like the 24" display is fine (the complaint on that page about the 24" is caused by backlight bleed and is completely unrelated to viewing angles). Otherwise stay away from the 20" ones.

Also I dont believe revision B will be any better. The viewing angle is not a bug, its a result of apple trying to save money by buying cheap 18bit screens, so it was totally intentional.

 

[Digital Skunk]

G5, Ive never seen an intel 17" (and vice versa, Ive only seen an intel 20").

Lighting doesnt affect viewing angle, plus the 20" white imac looks great compared to the 20" aluminum one next to it. I dont see why Apple would ship some macs with good displays and others with crappy displays, the only explanation could be that some of the first alum imacs got leftover 20" displays made for the white imacs. The macs at school are only a couple weeks old and every single one of them look exactly the same.

I would take a picture of the viewing angle if I had a camera.
The screen is similair to this quality at very conservative angles:

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/feedback/20in_iMac_display_issues.html

As you can see the new imacs indeed have a worse LCD than the white imac. But 160 seems too exagerated or 170 was too modest (I think my dell had a 176 or 178 degree angle), there is indeed more than a 10 degree difference between the 2 as far as picture degrading is concerned. What happens is that looking from below causes the light pixels to invert to dark, while looking from the top causes the dark pixels to invert to light, thats why there is a gradient at small angles while things can become illegible at larger angles.

On the other hand it looks like the 24" display is fine (the complaint on that page about the 24" is caused by backlight bleed and is completely unrelated to viewing angles). Otherwise stay away from the 20" ones.

Also I dont believe revision B will be any better. The viewing angle is not a bug, its a result of apple trying to save money by buying cheap 18bit screens, so it was totally intentional.

Okay, I just wanted to let you know that the 20" ACD was actually dimmer than the 17" iMacs (both G5 and Intel). The 20" iMacs may have been better than them as well, the 20" ACD is wonderful but its a lot dimmer than the iMac displays.

Honestly, I can't say why Apple decided to change the already great display in the iMacs, but I can't say that I have seen terrible displays in the iMacs. I have one on order and it should be in next week, but before I did order it, I viewed them in the Apple Stores in Towson Maryland and King of Prussia, Pennsylvania. I agree that there may be a problem, but I don't think it's as big as people make it seam. It reminds me of the Mac Book Pro display issues, and many of the people that have the SR books don't have any problem at all.

 

[craig1410]

Mark me down as a proponent of the "Don't buy a Rev A" concept...

I heard there will be a significant wait until most software is optimized for the new graphics cards in these iMacs. Apparently the Windows world hasn't even got much working well under these Radeon HD video cards.

I think you will find that Apple has considerably more influence on ATI given that the entire range of iMac's use the Radeon cards. I expect that Apple will put a lot of pressure on ATI to get their house in order and make these cards work as billed. I'm at 4.5 days uptime just now and the last time I had a freeze I had about 16 days uptime so the freezing issue isn't really a big concern for me at least. Not acceptable but no need for panic just yet.

Remember, Apple are now the same size as IBM and almost as big as Intel so don't underestimate their power to get things sorted with sub-contractors...

Cheers,
Craig.

 

[Stridder44]

I think you will find that Apple has considerably more influence on ATI given that the entire range of iMac's use the Radeon cards. I expect that Apple will put a lot of pressure on ATI to get their house in order and make these cards work as billed. I'm at 4.5 days uptime just now and the last time I had a freeze I had about 16 days uptime so the freezing issue isn't really a big concern for me at least. Not acceptable but no need for panic just yet.

Remember, Apple are now the same size as IBM and almost as big as Intel so don't underestimate their power to get things sorted with sub-contractors...

Cheers,
Craig.

I hope you're right. My friend built his PC about 5 months ago and got an ATI Radeon x1950 Pro. That thing was the biggest piece of crap. And I'm almost sure it wasn't even the hardwares' fault either, the drivers for the card sucked. Overheating issues, BSODs (ati memory dump), and other minor glitches. Mind you these problems didn't even start occur until after a couple of months.


He since then got a GForce 8800 GTS (320mb). The difference in drivers alone was worth the upgrade. I want to like ATI but I'd just wish they'd get their act together already and make some solid drivers for their products.

 

[TheVandit]

basically who on earth gets a one colour full screen image and stares at it looking for faults??

 

[killerrobot]

Just bought a new 20" imac on Oct. 9. No problems with it at all other than it has two dead pixels which you can barely notice because the screen looks great.

Oh, did I mention I did the 10.5 up-to-date thing for $10.77 with taxes. Just can´t beat that I get a licensed copy of tiger and leopard for $10.77 more.

 

[AnthonyCM]

That's what I'm thinking. Should I go ahead and get an iMac now with Tiger and a $10 Leopard voucher, or should I wait a couple of weeks to receive Leopard pre-installed?

 

[ucfgrad93]

I've had a 20" iMac for two months now. I use it every day. I have NEVER had any problem whatever! It's a great computer and I love the glossy screen. The colors are very bright and I have had no problems with reflections. The new keyboard took me about two minutes to get used to...

Same here, no problems at all. I love mine. Go for it you won't regret it.

 

[Digital Skunk]

That's what I'm thinking. Should I go ahead and get an iMac now with Tiger and a $10 Leopard voucher, or should I wait a couple of weeks to receive Leopard pre-installed?

I say wait until it comes out. There is no point in spending $10 when you could wait a solid week and not pay $10 and have to do a reinstall of your OS. It's not that big of a deal to install Mac OS X, but neither is waiting a week for your ultimate purchase.

I hope you're right. My friend built his PC about 5 months ago and got an ATI Radeon x1950 Pro. That thing was the biggest piece of crap. And I'm almost sure it wasn't even the hardwares' fault either, the drivers for the card sucked. Overheating issues, BSODs (ati memory dump), and other minor glitches. Mind you these problems didn't even start occur until after a couple of months.


He since then got a GForce 8800 GTS (320mb). The difference in drivers alone was worth the upgrade. I want to like ATI but I'd just wish they'd get their act together already and make some solid drivers for their products.

I am no graphics freak but if I had a choice I'd go nVidia as well, I just think they make a solid product that just about everyone stands behind. ATI has been the "other" company in my mind, making a good product as well, but not on par with nVidia. I would upgrade my old nVidia to an ATI if my budget restricts me but if I had the cash for an nVidia it'd be in my case in no time flat.

basically who on earth gets a one colour full screen image and stares at it looking for faults??

People who like nothin else but to look for faults in every product they buy so they can complain about it and never actually use the device for the purpose it was intended for.

 

[9Charms]

basically who on earth gets a one colour full screen image and stares at it looking for faults??

Actually graphics artists do. Especially those who do colour correction and have to wonder why their image looks different in one part of the screen compared to another part.

The previous gen MacBook Pro had an inconsistent screen, which is why had to get rid of mine. (This gen's LED LCD looks better, but I'm now on a G5 now, waiting for a cheap Mac tower to come out).

 

[craig1410]

Actually graphics artists do. Especially those who do colour correction and have to wonder why their image looks different in one part of the screen compared to another part.

The previous gen MacBook Pro had an inconsistent screen, which is why had to get rid of mine. (This gen's LED LCD looks better, but I'm now on a G5 now, waiting for a cheap Mac tower to come out).

Surely if you are a "professional" then you should be using a Mac Pro with some sort of professional standard monitor with guaranteed colour and brightness performance characteristics? In the photography world I wouldn't expect a professional photographer to just go down to Argos/Walmart and buy any old camera - they would buy the best that they can afford. If they can only afford a consumer camera then maybe they are not a "professional" after all !!

That said, I would expect a true professional to work with the tools they can afford and use their skills to produce results better than the sum of the parts rather than complaining about some relatively minor technicality!

Cheers,
Craig.

 

[9Charms]

Surely if you are a "professional" then you should be using a Mac Pro with some sort of professional standard monitor with guaranteed colour and brightness performance characteristics? In the photography world I wouldn't expect a professional photographer to just go down to Argos/Walmart and buy any old camera - they would buy the best that they can afford. If they can only afford a consumer camera then maybe they are not a "professional" after all !!

That said, I would expect a true professional to work with the tools they can afford and use their skills to produce results better than the sum of the parts rather than complaining about some relatively minor technicality!

Cheers,
Craig.

I never actually said "professional" because many of these people are hobbyists, free-lancers, "do stuff for friends", casual dabblers, and it's not their full time job thus they can't justify the cost of a "professional" grade machine. Basically they can't afford a Mac Pro (nevermind that it's over-priced). And being true Mac people, they don't want to buy a windows machine. If Apple ever offered a "real" desktop in the $1200 to $1500 range, that is what this particular segment needs.

However, I have to admit, for most people, the screen is fine. They only do iPhoto. It's good enough. But an inconsistent screen is not a "minor techicality." For the price of these computers, we should expect better products. Have you seen what $1800 buys in the Windows world?

Anyways, we're probably getting off topic. I would chalk up the "screen-issue" to it being a Rev A product.

 

[craig1410]

I never actually said "professional" because many of these people are hobbyists, free-lancers, "do stuff for friends", casual dabblers, and it's not their full time job thus they can't justify the cost of a "professional" grade machine. Basically they can't afford a Mac Pro (nevermind that it's over-priced). And being true Mac people, they don't want to buy a windows machine. If Apple ever offered a "real" desktop in the $1200 to $1500 range, that is what this particular segment needs.

However, I have to admit, for most people, the screen is fine. They only do iPhoto. It's good enough. But an inconsistent screen is not a "minor techicality." For the price of these computers, we should expect better products. Have you seen what $1800 buys in the Windows world?

Anyways, we're probably getting off topic. I would chalk up the "screen-issue" to it being a Rev A product.

For the type of person you are referring to then I would agree that the iMac screen is more than good enough and if better performance is required then they should buy a known good external monitor. A cheaper way to do this would be to buy a MacBook or Mac Mini with an external monitor.

The level of variation I have seen reported on this forum for the 24" screen is well within what I would term "minor" but of course that is only my opinion. I appreciate there will be some bad screens out there which are worse than this but I believe they are in the minority. My own screen has no such problems and I don't see the point in taking pictures with a camera as this is unlikely to capture exactly what the eye sees.

Finally, I doubt that these are "Rev A" issues as the particular LCD used in the 24" iMac is reportedly used in a high end NEC LCD monitor and has been around for a while already.

Cheers,
Craig.

 

[GSMiller]

With leopard coming out I feel like it is finally time to get my first Mac Desktop.

Question is... is it the right time to do it? I bought my Mac Laptop (first mac ever) with little knowledge of the MacBook world... oh was I in for an unpleasant surprise!

Random Shut Downs, Discolouration.. etc.

All the marketing about the quality and reliability of Apple pretty much went out the window for me at that point.... BUT, I stuck with Apple and I must say I fell in love for the quality of the software (but not necessarily the quality of hardware)

So how is iMac? Does it come packaged with a couple of common blunders that will keep me calling AppleCare twice a week OR (unlike early macbooks) is it actually designed well?

Should I wait a year before they get this product right, or is it safe to jump in this time?

Thanks,

~ One.Bad.

While I can't comment on the new iMac's I must say don't let a few peoples comments stop you from getting a new iMac. If 5 people out of 1,000,000 people complained about an issue, it would seem as though about 80% of them had the problem. If there really is an issue, it can most likely be fixed with a software update by Apple. Otherwise, nothing a little AppleCare can't take care of.

 

[czachorski]

Mark me down as a proponent of the "Don't buy a Rev A" concept...

I heard there will be a significant wait until most software is optimized for the new graphics cards in these iMacs. Apparently the Windows world hasn't even got much working well under these Radeon HD video cards.

During that significant wait, I am editing HD video as we speak on my new 24". I don't really know what more I could expect from a $2500 computer - beautiful, perfect screen, smokin fast computer, immune from the freezing issues (so far). I got what I paid for, and most probably do.

 

[weslobombs]

all of you naysayer lcd snobs need to ****.

the bottom line:

the freezing problems affected a SMALL number of people, and is not nonexistant.

the glossy screen is NOT bad for color intensive tasks!! the colors are more saturated! they look way better than my friends 20 inch white imac (compared to my friends 24 inch aluminum)

the viewing angle is NOT ANY WORSE!!! whoever says the new screens are worse is quite frankly an idiot/hasn't seen them side by side like i have.

im getting a 24 inch friday so that leopard comes with it. btw, its not preinstalled, they swap out the tiger disc and make you install it.

besides, getting an old mac at this point would mean sacrificing 1. better specs 2. a glossy screen (they ARE BETTER PEOPLE! trust apple, try using one, they are amazing and i wouldnt go back) 3. the joy of walking into the apple store and getting a new mac in its sweet new packaging!

be smart. aluminum is the way to go.

plus they are prettier.

sincerely,
a mac geek

 

[Digital Skunk]

all of you naysayer lcd snobs need to ****.

the bottom line:

the freezing problems affected a SMALL number of people, and is not nonexistant.

the glossy screen is NOT bad for color intensive tasks!! the colors are more saturated! they look way better than my friends 20 inch white imac (compared to my friends 24 inch aluminum)

the viewing angle is NOT ANY WORSE!!! whoever says the new screens are worse is quite frankly an idiot/hasn't seen them side by side like i have.

im getting a 24 inch friday so that leopard comes with it. btw, its not preinstalled, they swap out the tiger disc and make you install it.

besides, getting an old mac at this point would mean sacrificing 1. better specs 2. a glossy screen (they ARE BETTER PEOPLE! trust apple, try using one, they are amazing and i wouldnt go back) 3. the joy of walking into the apple store and getting a new mac in its sweet new packaging!

be smart. aluminum is the way to go.

plus they are prettier.

sincerely,
a mac geek

Yeah... what this guy said!

Seriously though, as has happened in many other threads on this topic or about the MacBook Pro yellowing issue, the complainers leave the rest hanging. They have moved on and realized that they were very mistaken or that they had no argument to begin with. That or they have taken off their piss colored glasses.

Once you show them proof that not every machine has their problem, they vanish like a fart in the wind. Nothing left to see hear.