Reasons to get 15" cMBP over 15" rMBP ... Any of you prefer the cMBP still?

[definitive]

I was faced with the same decision when buying my MBP - classic or retina. In the end I decided to go with the classic because I think it's still too early for the retina screen technology to become the industry standard. Many of the websites and applications are still not optimized for it, so until then it's not worth being first to own such a laptop, especially when it costs so much. To me, the only advantage was the lesser weight of the laptop. That's about it.

I ended up going with a base 15" cMBP, upgraded to 16gigs of RAM and a Samsung 830 256gig drive.

 

[yinz]

I've read that given the same set up, the prices come pretty close... I don't know if I'll ever choose a classic over a retina. I just don't see the advantage of classic.

 

[Neodym]

That is not a advantage but more of a disadvantage because you can upgrade the cMBP to a much better SSD.

You can upgrade the SSD in the rMBP as well. However, with >400MB/s read and write speeds on the original drive, the only reason for upgrading would be capacity and it would be hard to find a "much better SSD"...

 

[Spink10]

You can upgrade the SSD in the rMBP as well. However, with >400MB/s read and write speeds on the original drive, the only reason for upgrading would be capacity and it would be hard to find a "much better SSD"...

cMBP - cheaper to upgrade SSD
cMBP - easier (by a lot) to upgrade SSD

 

[Neodym]

cMBP - cheaper to upgrade SSD

Cheaper doesn't necessarily equal better.

cMBP - easier (by a lot) to upgrade SSD

Argueable.

In any case your arguments drift away from the focus being on the SSD itself, back to general comparisons between cMBP and rMBP:

rMBP - less bulk, better portability
rMBP - better screen
rMBP - better cooling system (quieter / more efficient)

etc. pp.

 

[Spink10]

Cheaper doesn't necessarily equal better.


Argueable.

In any case your arguments drift away from the focus being on the SSD itself, back to general comparisons between cMBP and rMBP:

rMBP - less bulk, better portability
rMBP - better screen
rMBP - better cooling system (quieter / more efficient)

etc. pp.

My argument was directed at a very specific comment - that is why I quoted it. Go back and read the conversation.

All of your comments are correct - but not in line with the recent conversation.

 

[derbothaus]

Don''t buy an 840. They are very unreliable. Get the 830 instead.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6503/second-update-on-samsung-ssd-840840-pro-failures

That has been fixed. Old news. No major failures on the shipping drives.

----------

Advantages of the rMBP - thinner design, superior screen, integrated SSD, HDMI port
Advantages of the cMBP - optical drive, ethernet port, user replaceable drive and ram.

Integrated SSD is not an advantage. Wrong column.

My advantages would be: thinner design, Superior screen, overclocked GPU.
Disadvantages: No optical drive, No ethernet port, No user replaceable drive and ram, No Firewire, no dual audio line in/ line out, lack of supported software.

 

[ssmed]

So I'm buying a new Macbook Pro soon, and it has to be a 15".

The cMBP 1,680-by-1,050 with anti-glare display is a great machine - I have this with a 512 SSD and 16GB of RAM, but its quite expensive compared to the rMBP. Having a rMBP (currently using a 13") is not as awkward as I expected in terms of ports, having two monitors (one miniDP and one HDMI) and a spare TB port for ethernet works well and the text is VERY clear. In addition, although I haven't used one, you can get enormous SSD capacity in the rMBP.

I wouldn't take the 1440x900 cMBP over the rMBP.

Hope this helps ss

 

[Ploki]

You can upgrade the SSD in the rMBP as well. However, with >400MB/s read and write speeds on the original drive, the only reason for upgrading would be capacity and it would be hard to find a "much better SSD"...

OWC offers at least 10-15% speed upgrade. it's not substantial but its something.

cMBP - cheaper to upgrade SSD
cMBP - easier (by a lot) to upgrade SSD

550mb/s SSDs are not that cheap honestly...

That has been fixed. Old news. No major failures on the shipping drives.

----------



Integrated SSD is not an advantage. Wrong column.

My advantages would be: thinner design, Superior screen, overclocked GPU.
Disadvantages: No optical drive, No ethernet port, No user replaceable drive and ram, No Firewire, no dual audio line in/ line out, lack of supported software.

I bought it with "im going to replace my SSD" in mind. So, no to that one.

I have 3 firewire audio-interfaces. when i don't use them, i love the fact that I have another TB port to abuse, because I don't need them all the time. Also, you could smack 3FW ports on a single TB port with ease. You will be able soon enough...

as far as supported software goes, yeah, its a shame.

 

[nizmoz]

Cheaper doesn't necessarily equal better.


Argueable.

In any case your arguments drift away from the focus being on the SSD itself, back to general comparisons between cMBP and rMBP:

rMBP - less bulk, better portability
rMBP - better screen
rMBP - better cooling system (quieter / more efficient)

etc. pp.

Actually it is better when we can get over 500mb read and write speeds. And a longer warranty on the SSD. We understand you are trying to defend your purchase, but lets get with the facts now.

rMBP, (Yes its Retina), but not really better when most software/websites do not support it. Also if you call the serious burn in issues better than the Matte High Resolution screen which has always been the best till the Retina came out. I wouldn't call that really better.

rMBP, better cooling? Really? Smaller size, more compact, less air to move, does not equal to better cooling. The MBP 2012 model has good cooling, and a cooler processor. It will also be less prone to throttle itself back due to the bigger space it has to move air.

rMBP, less bulk, more portable. Yep, might as well call it a Macbook Air because that is all it is with a better screen and it lost all the pro stuff. The pro is still the cmbp with all the additional ports.

 

[Ploki]

rMBP, less bulk, more portable. Yep, might as well call it a Macbook Air because that is all it is with a better screen and it lost all the pro stuff. The pro is still the cmbp with all the additional ports.

ACtually... Theoretical setup: one screen, ethernet, FW card, usb peripherals.

cMBP: TB for screen, FW card, Ethernet, USB3.0 used.
rMBP: HDMI for screen, TB for display+usb2.0+fw 800, USB3.0 2x spare, TB 1x Spare

rMBP is no less a pro machine than the cMBP. If they made the optical drive space useful for +2x dual drive, or for mini PCIE expansion, then cMBP would be significantly more pro.

now its just another form of same capabilities (or less even)

 

[nizmoz]

ACtually... Theoretical setup: one screen, ethernet, FW card, usb peripherals.

cMBP: TB for screen, FW card, Ethernet, USB3.0 used.
rMBP: HDMI for screen, TB for display+usb2.0+fw 800, USB3.0 2x spare, TB 1x Spare

rMBP is no less a pro machine than the cMBP. If they made the optical drive space useful for +2x dual drive, or for mini PCIE expansion, then cMBP would be significantly more pro.

now its just another form of same capabilities (or less even)

Actually, cMBP has a thunderbolt port too. And it has many more ports than the limited ports the rMBP has. Actually it is and has been discussed here many times that the rMBP is a lesser machine other than the screen.

 

[Neodym]

We understand you are trying to defend your purchase, but lets get with the facts now.

"We"? Talking in pluralis majestatis? Or just resorting to some good old personal attack, trying to hide the lack of arguments?

rMBP, (Yes its Retina), but not really better when most software/websites do not support it.

The number of supporting software/websites is constantly increasing. And when you have the support, the difference to any normal display is night and day! Not to mention the flexibility in terms of various resolutions to adjust for the current situation. A non-retina display simply can't deliver there.

Also if you call the serious burn in issues better than the Matte High Resolution screen which has always been the best till the Retina came out. I wouldn't call that really better.

Not every machine is affected and if they are, Apple seems to change the screens without asking questions. Not nice, but no general failure as well. And working retina displays _are_ better, by a fair margin!

rMBP, better cooling? Really?

Yes really! They redesigned it (e.g. asymmetrically spaced blades, side air intakes) and even put some focus on it during the keynote. If you boast talking facts, you should get them straight before!

If you don't believe Apple and my personal experience, perhaps Anandtech is sufficiently credible for you...

rMBP, less bulk, more portable. Yep, might as well call it a Macbook Air because that is all it is with a better screen and it lost all the pro stuff. The pro is still the cmbp with all the additional ports.

Not all pro stuff is happening in the past. Most of the missing ports can be retrofitted though and beyond that the rMBP offers some significant improvements over the cMBP you _can't_ retrofit.

Your workflow may be better suited to a cMBP, but dismissing the rMBP as Pro machine is simply arrogant. Many people seem not to share your opinion btw. - IMO it's quite telling that the cMBP is already available as refurb (and has been for a while), whereas the rMBP is not.

Disadvantages: No optical drive, No ethernet port, No user replaceable drive and ram, No Firewire, no dual audio line in/ line out, lack of supported software.

Ethernet and FireWire can be added via TB adapters (and then you can get even more ports than one integrated), drive is easily replaceable (albeit not officially encouraged by Apple).

Optical media is clearly on its way out in terms of computer storage, so the constantly increasing number of people that don't need those are glad not having to pay for and drag around this ancient technology (for casual/home use an external drive is more than sufficient).

 

[nizmoz]

"We"? Talking in pluralis majestatis? Or just resorting to some good old personal attack, trying to hide the lack of arguments?


The number of supporting software/websites is constantly increasing. And when you have the support, the difference to any normal display is night and day! Not to mention the flexibility in terms of various resolutions to adjust for the current situation. A non-retina display simply can't deliver there.


Not every machine is affected and if they are, Apple seems to change the screens without asking questions. Not nice, but no general failure as well. And working retina displays _are_ better, by a fair margin!


Yes really! They redesigned it (e.g. asymmetrically spaced blades, side air intakes) and even put some focus on it during the keynote. If you boast talking facts, you should get them straight before!

If you don't believe Apple and my personal experience, perhaps Anandtech is sufficiently credible for you...


Not all pro stuff is happening in the past. Most of the missing ports can be retrofitted though and beyond that the rMBP offers some significant improvements over the cMBP you _can't_ retrofit.

Your workflow may be better suited to a cMBP, but dismissing the rMBP as Pro machine is simply arrogant. Many people seem not to share your opinion btw. - IMO it's quite telling that the cMBP is already available as refurb (and has been for a while), whereas the rMBP is not.



Ethernet and FireWire can be added via TB adapters (and then you can get even more ports than one integrated), drive is easily replaceable (albeit not officially encouraged by Apple).

Optical media is clearly on its way out in terms of computer storage, so the constantly increasing number of people that don't need those are glad not having to pay for and drag around this ancient technology (for casual/home use an external drive is more than sufficient).

Going to say it again, they tested a 2011 MBP with a different series cpu that got much hotter than the current gens like in the new 2012 cMBP and rMBP. IT is a known FACT that the more space you have the more airflow has to move the better cooling will be. This will always be this way. Optical is clearly NOT on it's way out. It is still highly used and will continue to be used for many years. If it was on its way out, you would see software coming on flash drives now instead. LOL.

If you want to have all these dongles that take up your only two thunderbolt ports you have sure go ahead. I rather have ethernet port, firewire, thunderbolt, usb 3.0s all available. You can only hook up two items to your thunderbolt ports. Less if you use one for a display and the hdmi with it for dual displays. LOL.

Either way dude, the rMBP is a downgrade other than the display. Oh and having to carry cables with you too with the laptop in case you need to hook up to ethernet, or whatever connection instead of having it built in is stupid.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

What are your thoughts on the next upgrade and the cMBP? Do you think they will upgrade it? I want a mat screen cMBP and am not sure if I should buy now or wait. Normally I would wait, but I am afraid that they may drop it?

 

[throAU]

My only beef with the cMBP is the fan noise.

oh the fan noise...


load it up and it is deafening.

 

[dmk1974]

So, going off the retail cost of the 15" rMBP ($2199) vs buying a base 15" cMBP and upgrading it yourself to 8 gb RAM and a good 256 gb SSD ($1799 + $200), isn't it worth the extra $200 to go with the slimmer and lighter Retina option? Or do most of you favor the trade offs of the cMBP since it would allow you to upgrade the RAM and SSD further?

 

[adjeff8]

So I'm buying a new Macbook Pro soon, and it has to be a 15".

Right now, I'm leaning towards the base 15" cMBP. I plan to replace the stock HDD for an SSD of my own (Samsung 840), I also plan to replace the stock RAM with RAM of my own (Samsung 2x4GB DDR3 1600).

Before I pull the trigger, I was wondering if there's any reason I should be considering the rMBP over the cMBP?

I mean, I only really envy the native HDMI port and the retina display, all that 'it's thinner' mantra doesn't mean much to me.

Will I regret buying a classic over a retina?

I have a 15" MBP from 2009. I bought a 15" cMBP two months ago. Basically, I liked the idea of having a CD drive for $400 less. When I brought it home I set it next to my 2009 computer. The old computers display was markedly crisper and more defined. I looked at it for two weeks until I finally returned it. The techi agreed with me and since the floor models also looked better he gave me another one. Brought it home, still, the old one was better. Brought it back and took store credit. I'm waiting for the 2nd gen rMBP. If I'm going to spend a outrageous amounts on a laptop, I demand satisfaction

 

[bobcan]

Any of you prefer the cMBP still?

To be honest, my mid 2011 Hi-Res cMBP is 'just fine' and although I have played with a rMBP, I cannot justify the upgrade for any rational reason..

I have added ALL the RAM it can hold, and a 512 GB SSD, don't see any reason to get rid of it any time soon.. but the new ones are certainly nice!!

 

[Livewings]

rMBP is superior because it is superior.
cMBP cannot run Windows 8.

 

[Neodym]

Going to say it again, they tested a 2011 MBP with a different series cpu that got much hotter than the current gens like in the new 2012 cMBP and rMBP.

The 2012 cMBP still has the same cooling system as the 2011 MBP and is loud when compared to the rMBP one.

IT is a known FACT that the more space you have the more airflow has to move the better cooling will be. This will always be this way.

Unlike common american belief there are more aspects to consider than sheer size. Bigger is _not_ automatically better. Acoustics and psychoacoustics are way more than "make it bigger and everything is fine"...

Optical is clearly NOT on it's way out. It is still highly used and will continue to be used for many years. If it was on its way out, you would see software coming on flash drives now instead.

Oh - sorry, i forgot you are living in the past. Just a small update: Software is being downloaded nowadays. They invented a great thing called 'Internet', which makes this possible. For direct exchange physical media is still in use, but optical is increasingly substituted by flash memory.

LOL.

A small hint: LOL'ing in an internet discussion makes you look like a teenager. You should refrain from using it outside of buddy chats...

If you want to have all these dongles that take up your only two thunderbolt ports you have sure go ahead. I rather have ethernet port, firewire, thunderbolt, usb 3.0s all available.

You're talking nonsense. USB 3 ports are directly available on the rMBP as well.

On the road (the MBP is a mobile device after all) you usually don't need Ethernet, but rather WLan. And it's usually either Firewire _or_ Thunderbolt _or_ USB 3 (with the latter gaining traction fast).

So the dongles are rather for stationary use and only a small inconvenience to have inside the bag when on the road.

You can only hook up two items to your thunderbolt ports. Less if you use one for a display and the hdmi with it for dual displays. LOL.

For stationary use you can get docking stations. Even Apple offers one in form of the Thunderbolt display. And even then i still have one TB port available for whatever i fancy on the rMBP, while the cMBP is limited in the dual monitor situation you picture.

Either way dude, the rMBP is a downgrade other than the display.

Could it be that it's you who tries to defend his purchase because you could not afford a rMBP? Or why are you steadfastly refusing to accept given facts?

Oh and having to carry cables with you too with the laptop in case you need to hook up to ethernet, or whatever connection instead of having it built in is stupid.

Whatever you say, Dude. It may be beyond your understanding, but some people simply don't need Firewire or Ethernet. Others find it's better to carry around small and lightweight adapters rather than the additional bulk of a cMBP.

Please understand that you are NOT the measure for each and everyone out there!

 

[Ploki]

Actually, cMBP has a thunderbolt port too. And it has many more ports than the limited ports the rMBP has. Actually it is and has been discussed here many times that the rMBP is a lesser machine other than the screen.

I told you, rMBP has a separate HDMI capable of driving the same display as TB, and it has two TB ports.

Which means you can connect a display to the HDMI port, have a whole array of ports (including more USB for peripherals, ethernet, FW800) connected to one TB port, have one TB + two HighSpeed USB3.0...

one extra TB means 10gbit more i/o no matter how you turn it.

As I said in another thread, IF apple replaced the FW800 port with another TB, ripped out the optical and replaced it with either 1x HDD+miniPCIE or 2x HDD, classicMBP would be a kickass machine...

 

[monkeybagel]

I still prefer the standard model - I have a 15" high resolution model with SSD and it performs as well as the retina model. I really like it and use the additional ports and optical drive regularly.

Also, the inability to upgrade the retina model is a big turn-off for me.

 

[nizmoz]

rMBP is superior because it is superior.
cMBP cannot run Windows 8.

Umm yes it can.

 

[Adamantoise]

Lol thanks for all the input guys.

I ended up buying a cMBP about 2 weeks ago, replaced the stock HDD with my SSD, and upgraded the RAM myself.

Love this machine! Screen is much bigger than my older 13".