iPad mini Received iPad Mini. One reviewer is spot on

Sorry, but you are dead wrong. End of discussion.



Everyone knows it isn't comparable to a retina screen. I even stated that fact specifically, yet here you are comparing it (yet again) to a retina screen instead of comparing it to similar tablet devices. Epic fail on your part.



It's science? Bwahahahahaha. You make ludicrous statement like "the text is fuzzy" and "it gave me a headache" and you claim these are scientific statements? Wow. Just wow. That's not science. It's nonsense.

The nexus 7's aspect ratio makes for a longer screen. That is simple fact. Regardless of whether is it 16:10 or 16:9. If the mini was 16:10, it would have a 1280x800. Seeing as it is 4:3, it has a 1024x768 resolution. It's pretty straight forward stuff here. You can't fit 1280x800 into a 4:3 aspect ratio. You just can't. Period. Bottom line.

So stop your whining and moaning and enjoy a retina ipad or a nexus product.

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Sorry to break it to you, but you are wrong. Screen size has everything to do with PPI. The mini has a higher PPI than the ipad 2 even though both devices have the exact same resolution. Why? Screen size.

Pretty difficult to measure "pixels per inch" without considering screen size.

You are wrong on everything.

First, the Nexus 7 DOES NOT have a taller screen than the Mini. In fact, it's almost slightly shorter.

Second, yes science. I've explained it. You cherry picking a comment about the screen being fuzzy does not detract from that.

Third, you have not a clue what you're talking about. Aspect ratio is just that: the ratio of pixels horizontal to vertical. But it does NOT lock you into set resolutions. You can make different size pixels and create your own resolution.

And I did compare to non-Retina screens like the Nexus 7. We talked about text and elements not scaling up as they do on Android. There's video comparisons posted with users saying the Nexus screen is better. I have both and my experience also informs me of this.

Ignoring facts and the flood of screen complaints puts you square in the denial phase.

The market will speak and everyone will see the mess the Mini will be for Apple.

With 243 ppi 7" tablets out there for $199, and a host of other high ppi tablets that are cheap, the Mini is headed for flopville.

A stillborn product the likes of which will have people calling for Tim Cook's head.
 
I think the screen is fine. really.
The only beef I have is with the performance. Some heavy games like GTA 3 gives me a slight headache after a while due to the seemingly reduced frame rate. I play a crap load of GTA 3 on my iPad 2 so I should know.

Also the 512mb ram could be more. I'm not complaining, but I wished I had 1gb. I had to remember to close my apps regularly to keep chrome from lagging and to have better performance in game.

Other than that, I think I am seriously having fun with the mini. Never expected to though.
 
I think the screen is fine. really.
The only beef I have is with the performance. Some heavy games like GTA 3 gives me a slight headache after a while due to the seemingly reduced frame rate. I play a crap load of GTA 3 on my iPad 2 so I should know.

Also the 512mb ram could be more. I'm not complaining, but I wished I had 1gb. I had to remember to close my apps regularly to keep chrome from lagging and to have better performance in game.

Other than that, I think I am seriously having fun with the mini. Never expected to though.

Me either. It's much better than I anticipated.
 
When the iPad 3 came out, I was underwhelmed by the screen. Comparing an iPad 2 and an iPad 3 side-by-side still wasn't definitive for me, and I held off.

Now I'm getting my first tablet in the upcoming weeks. I currently have an iPhone 5 and a 15" retina MacBook Pro, and after using both the mini and the new new iPad, I can't decide. Using retina on the iPhone has spoiled me and when I compared the mini with the iPad 4 side-by-side, I was shocked to see just how much I actually noticed the difference in the quality of the text (I used Polygon's Halo 4 review as the test, and the difference was astounding to me).

I love love love the 7.9" screen size, and one handed use was incredibly comfortable for my big hands. But that screen...

I'm wondering if there are any other users with a 15" retina MacBook and an iPhone 5 out there who have an opinion on which way to go. I've seen people with MBA's say they think the mini is a perfect middle ground because the 9.7" iPad was just too close to their laptop, but my laptop being bigger and both of my current devices have retina displays just weirds me out.
 
Sorry to break it to you, but you are wrong. Screen size has everything to do with PPI. The mini has a higher PPI than the ipad 2 even though both devices have the exact same resolution. Why? Screen size.
No, he's right. There is no relationship between display size and ppi. You can have 100ppi on a 0.25" screen or on a 32' screen.
Pretty difficult to measure "pixels per inch" without considering screen size.
Not at all. Pixels-per-inch as a measure of density is a simple extrapolation of the size of an individual pixel. Pixel count depends on the both the size of the display and the ppi, but that's a different measure altogether.
Second, yes science. I've explained it.
No, not even remotely.

The guy who thinks that a higher pixel density can be worse, but even higher suddenly switches to better, has no leg to stand on.

If 163ppi at 7.85" is "too small", then 216ppi at 7.0" is a disaster. The number of pixels in a single character of the same size is better than an iPad 2 in both cases. It can't be better for one and worse for the other. As has been repeatedly explained, if you're looking at a 20% denser display and holding it 20% closer, each pixel takes up the exact same amount of space in your field of view. You can't declare the ppi a wash and still complain that the screen is smaller. If the 23% pixel density increase is removed from the equation, you are by definition looking at the display from a ~20% shorter distance.

But since you want to pretend that bringing a display closer to your face has no effect on the size of the image, I suppose that's not surprising.
All the people that are saying shipping with a Retina Display was "impossible", or saying that it doesn't have a negative effect on user experience, will be singing Retina's praises come next year.
And that is a problem because...?
 
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You're not going to stop are you? You don't get it that's clear and your understanding of this is flawed. You're like that kid in school who took the longest to figure things out.

This is my last reply to you.

THE IPAD MINI DOES NOT HAVE THE PIXEL DENSITY TO APPROPRIATELY DISPLAY ELEMENTS SHRUNK DOWN 20% SMALLER THAN THE IPAD 2. THE ONLY THING THE EXTRA 30 PPI ACCOUNTS FOR IS HOLDING IT CLOSER TO YOUR FACE. THE IPAD MINI'S SMALLER PIXELS OFFER NO EFFECTIVE RESOLUTION BENEFIT TO THE USER BECAUSE OF THIS. IN FACT, THE DEVICE IS WORSE THAN THE IPAD 2 BECAUSE THINGS ARE MUCH SMALLER ON SCREEN AND REQUIRE ZOOMING, EVEN WHEN HELD CLOSE TO THE FACE BECAUSE OF HOW SMALL AND PIXELATED THINGS LIKE TEXT IS.

This doesn't make sense. If you hold the device closer to your face to compensate for the smaller screen size, then all PPI issues wash out because the angular size of the pixels relative to your face is roughly the same as the iPad 2. The device is not worse than the iPad 2 in that respect because if held closer to your face to compensate for the smaller physical size, the size of the screen in your field of view is by definition equivalent between the iPad mini and iPad 2.

As pointed out, the iPad mini actually looks better due to newer screen tech used to manufacture the XGA screen, improving on contrast, etc.

It's clear from this post and your previous posts that you do not understand this issue and haven't correctly modeled it in your head. I suggest you spend some time offline working this through before you incorrectly correct people more on this thread.
 
I'm wondering if there are any other users with a 15" retina MacBook and an iPhone 5 out there who have an opinion on which way to go. I've seen people with MBA's say they think the mini is a perfect middle ground because the 9.7" iPad was just too close to their laptop, but my laptop being bigger and both of my current devices have retina displays just weirds me out.

I have a rMBP, iPad 3 and an iPhone 5. I really noticed the difference when I saw the iPad mini in store. Really like the form factor but yeah my eyes are definitely spoiled.
 
This doesn't make sense. If you hold the device closer to your face to compensate for the smaller screen size, then all PPI issues wash out because the angular size of the pixels relative to your face is roughly the same as the iPad 2. The device is not worse than the iPad 2 in that respect because if held closer to your face to compensate for the smaller physical size, the size of the screen in your field of view is by definition equivalent between the iPad mini and iPad 2.

As pointed out, the iPad mini actually looks better due to newer screen tech used to manufacture the XGA screen, improving on contrast, etc.

It's clear from this post and your previous posts that you do not understand this issue and haven't correctly modeled it in your head. I suggest you spend some time offline working this through before you incorrectly correct people more on this thread.

No you are wrong and fail to grasp the concepts.

What you're saying would be closer to the truth if, and only if, the elements on the screen stayed the exact same size as they are on the iPad 2. The Mini's extra 30 ppi would help offset holding the device closer if the elements were all the same size as the iPad 2.

BUT, the big but, is that something else is happening, and it's Apple's fatal mistake. The elements on the Mini's screen are all shrunk down by 20% relative to the iPad 2. Shrinking down is positively correlated with more pixelation. So while the extra 30 ppi on the Mini may help it to maintain pixelation parity with the iPad 2 by virtue of the device being held closer, the Mini has EXTRA pixelation over top the iPad 2 because it's stuck in a 20% zoom in state. It explains why users are reporting the iPad 2 screen looks better.

It's all an interplay between ppi, distance, screen size, physical size of UI elements, among others.

This is what you fail to understand. Then there's optimal ppi per screen size and distance... The Mini may not even have enough ppi increase to offset holding it closer, let alone the problem and extra layer of everything being shrunk down by 20% causing further pixelation.
 
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No you are wrong and fail to grasp the concepts.
No, he's really not.
What you're saying would be closer to the truth if, and only if, the elements on the screen stayed the exact same size as they are on the iPad 2.
Which is exactly what you're doing when you compensate for smaller size by bringing it closer to your face.
The elements on the Mini's screen are all shrunk down by 20%.
Not if you're holding it closer to your face.

An object that is 20% smaller and 20% closer shows as the same size. You're exhibiting absolutely zero knowledge of how human vision works.
Shrinking down is positively correlated with more pixelation.
Only where pixel density remains constant.
So the Mini has extra pixelation over top the iPad 2.
No.
 
I'm glad you can see through my eyes and judge what I can and cannot see. Thanks for that.

Seriously, people are making the screen out to be some crappy 8 bit green screen crap. It's a good display for what it is trying to be at the price point Apple wanted.

Don't like it? Return it already.

Sheesh!

It's like they need their iPad mini to view RAW files at 100%. :eek:

Besides, iOS 6 will only let you expand the image currently viewed to it's largest before becoming pixelated. I spent and hour earlier today with one for the first time. The extra 30% of viewable area is HUGE, IMO.

All I know is I have never owned an iPad or any Tablet. I ordered a Black 32g Wi-Fi mini today. :apple:
 
No, he's really not.

Which is exactly what you're doing when you compensate for smaller size by bringing it closer to your face.

Not if you're holding it closer to your face.

An object that is 20% smaller and 20% closer shows as the same size. You're exhibiting absolutely zero knowledge of how human vision works.

Only where pixel density remains constant.

No.

You have absoluetly no idea what you're talking about.

Holding something closer to your face changes nothing about screen elements and an OS being shrunk 20% in terms of the pixelation that it causes. It's an independent problem and is inescapable in Apple's implementation.

Pixel density... It's all relative to the screen in question. Every single one will pixelate more and more the smaller everything is shrunk. It's a 100% positive correlation. Even pinching and zooming out on the iPhone Retina will pixelate text very quickly. It's a fact.

If you pinch and zoom out of a text Webpage on the iPad 2 about 20% you can see the pixelation that occurs. This is what the Mini is stuck with out of the box. If all of the screen elements were the sane size this extra pixelation would not occur and the extra 30 ppi would help offset increased pixelation from holding the device closer.

You continue failing to grasp this concept.
 
I played with the display models at the apple store today and was surprised that I liked the Mini better than the Biggie. The weight and size are great.

Mind you, I have a mild astigmatism that gives everything a fuzzy glow at the edges. LOL!
 
You have absoluetly no idea what you're talking about.

Holding something closer to your face changes nothing about screen elements and an OS being shrunk 20% in terms of the pixelation that it causes. It's an independent problem and is inescapable in Apple's implementation.

Pixel density... It's all relative to the screen in question. Every single one will pixelate more and more the smaller everything is shrunk. It's a 100% positive correlation. Even pinching and zooming out on the iPhone Retina will pixelate text very quickly. It's a fact.

If you pinch and zoom out of a text Webpage on the iPad 2 about 20% you can see the pixelation that occurs. This is what the Mini is stuck with out of the box. If all of the screen elements were the sane size this extra pixelation would not occur and the extra 30 ppi would help offset increased pixelation from holding the device closer.

You continue failing to grasp this concept.

Nothing personal, but you completely miss the target consumer for this product.

They have no need to have anxiety over "The Concept" of density pixilation to the degree where 30 ppi is a deal breaker.

Just saying. :apple:
 
You have absoluetly no idea what you're talking about.
You can keep saying that all you like, but it won't make it true.
Holding something closer to your face changes nothing about screen elements and an OS being shrunk 20% in terms of the pixelation that it causes.
Yes, it does. The reason why the "retina" definition require a distance component is because the angular size of objects changes based on how far they are away. A 40ppi HDTV is not retina at 16". You seem to understand that much.

The original iPhone was a retina display at 20-21". The new iPhone is a retina display at 10". In other words, if you held an iPhone 3G at 20-21", the pixels would look the same size as they are on the iPhone 4, but the overall image would also be half as big, because it's twice as far away.

When you state that the higher ppi "offsets" the distance used to hold the screen, what you are describing is that relationship. By moving the iPad mini 23% closer to your face, you are making the effective size of each pixel 23% larger. Thus, although the screen is 20% smaller in physical size compared to the iPad 2, you will perceive it as the same size (actually, very slightly larger, since 23 > 20, but that's not important) when it is 23% closer.

Because you are then viewing an image of the same effective size with the same number of pixels, you are achieving the same level of "pixelation".

Edit for clarity: A 9.7" iPad held at 18" has an angular size (as perceived by your eye) of 30.16 degrees. A 7.85" iPad held at 14.5" (~20% closer) has an angular size of 30.29 degrees. Virtually identical. With the exact same number of pixels in each dimension, that means that when held at the different distances you are arguing for, the smaller size is exactly canceled by the higher pixel density when held closer. The pixels will be perceived as the same size with the same level of clarity because your eye won't know that they're smaller pixels in a smaller device because your vision is not based on actual size or distance.
Pixel density... It's all relative to the screen in question.
No. Pixel density is an independent measure.
Every single one will pixelate more and more the smaller everything is shrunk. It's a 100% positive correlation.
What you're describing is actually a negative correlation, but that's not important.
If you pinch and zoom out of a text Webpage on the iPad 2 about 20% you can see the pixelation that occurs. This is what the Mini is stuck with out of the box.
Bzzzt! Wrong again. The iPad mini is smaller and higher density in an exact match. You can't keep ignoring that fact.

It is mathematically and physically impossible for a higher density display to be worse, even if it is physically smaller, unless you are holding it too far away to read the screen, at which point it's not the screen's fault but your own. At the same physical size, letters are always clearer on a higher-density display. At the same angular size, letters are always clearer on a higher-density display. At the same pixel size, letters are always clearer on a higher-density display. The only time it gets worse is when you make the letters physically smaller below your vision threshold and hold it the same distance or further away. In other words, when you put an iPad 2 and and iPad mini on a shelf at native scale and back away until you can only read the iPad 2.

But that is in direct conflict to the scenario you present, in which the user holds the iPad mini closer to his/her face than the iPad 2.
 
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So many mis-informed people here, it's crazy.

Personally, I'm happy with the lower resolution. I wanted the device to play a lot of old school games that look BETTER at lower resolution.
 
Shipping mine back

I hate to say it but I'm shipping my mini back tomorrow. I recently bought a 13 rMBP and have a ipad 3 along with an iPhone 5. I was planning on selling the wife's ipad 2 and giving her my ipad 3 in exchange for my ipad mini. I even locked in a price for $420 for her ipad 2 with Amazon.

After 2 days of using the ipad mini I just can't go back to a lower resolution screen. I've showed a couple friends and they all it looks "fine" but after a retina ipad and a retina MacBook it just really bugs me. For once in my life I'm finally one of those people that says I'm going to wait for the next version. I've always thought it was such bs when people say it but I really can't get over such an otherwise perfect product flawed by a downgraded screen.

If you have not upgraded everything apple to retina already you might be ok with a ipad mini but if you've upgraded everything apple to retina, you will be disappointed. I know it fits an apple niche in the smaller size but and lower price but there's never been a more obvious apple hype for a product that is almost two years old and will be extremely outdated next year. I'm already worried about what my wife's ipad 2 will be worth next year when they release an ipad 5 and mini 2. Can you imagine how outdated the ipad mini is going to be when the mini 2 has an a6 and retina?

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So many mis-informed people here, it's crazy.

Personally, I'm happy with the lower resolution. I wanted the device to play a lot of old school games that look BETTER at lower resolution.

I do have to admit. If I was playing playing pocket planes and tiny tower exclusively, the ipad mini looks great.
 
You can keep saying that all you like, but it won't make it true.

Yes, it does. The reason why the "retina" definition require a distance component is because the angular size of objects changes based on how far they are away. A 40ppi HDTV is not retina at 16". You seem to understand that much.

The original iPhone was a retina display at 20-21". The new iPhone is a retina display at 10". In other words, if you held an iPhone 3G at 20-21", the pixels would look the same size as they are on the iPhone 4, but the overall image would also be half as big, because it's twice as far away.

When you state that the higher ppi "offsets" the distance used to hold the screen, what you are describing is that relationship. By moving the iPad mini 23% closer to your face, you are making the effective size of each pixel 23% larger. Thus, although the screen is 20% smaller in physical size compared to the iPad 2, you will perceive it as the same size (actually, very slightly larger, since 23 > 20, but that's not important) when it is 23% closer.

Because you are then viewing an image of the same effective size with the same number of pixels, you are achieving the same level of "pixelation".

No. Pixel density is an independent measure.

What you're describing is actually a negative correlation, but that's not important.

Bzzzt! Wrong again. The iPad mini is smaller and higher density in an exact match. You can't keep ignoring that fact.

It is mathematically and physically impossible for a higher density display to be worse, even if it is physically smaller, unless you are holding it too far away to read the screen, at which point it's not the screen's fault but your own. At the same physical size, letters are always clearer on a higher-density display. At the same angular size, letters are always clearer on a higher-density display. At the same pixel size, letters are always clearer on a higher-density display. The only time it gets worse is when you make the letters physically smaller below your vision threshold and hold it the same distance or further away. In other words, when you put an iPad 2 and and iPad mini on a shelf at native scale and back away until you can only read the iPad 2.

But that is in direct conflict to the scenario you present, in which the user holds the iPad mini closer to his/her face than the iPad 2.

You just don't get it and you never will. But you have to live with yourself.
 
You have absoluetly no idea what you're talking about.

Holding something closer to your face changes nothing about screen elements and an OS being shrunk 20% in terms of the pixelation that it causes. It's an independent problem and is inescapable in Apple's implementation.

Pixel density... It's all relative to the screen in question. Every single one will pixelate more and more the smaller everything is shrunk. It's a 100% positive correlation. Even pinching and zooming out on the iPhone Retina will pixelate text very quickly. It's a fact.

If you pinch and zoom out of a text Webpage on the iPad 2 about 20% you can see the pixelation that occurs. This is what the Mini is stuck with out of the box. If all of the screen elements were the sane size this extra pixelation would not occur and the extra 30 ppi would help offset increased pixelation from holding the device closer.

You continue failing to grasp this concept.

Actually you are the one who has no idea what you are talking about. You are either stupid or a troll.
 
Agreed, he's either a troll or a moron. The problem is even when you win an argument with an idiot, you still lose.


So true . . . The second sentence that is. You could be right about the first sentence. I wouldn't know though ;)
 
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