Reclining seats on airplanes

[Scepticalscribe]

I have a hard time understanding how this even needed to happen. The family should have been booked to sit together from the get-go, the airlines REALLY need to step it up there. This happened to my brother last year when he flew with his family, I don't recall if he got it revised before the flight or if it had to be resolved on board.

As for the original recline question. When I went to Mexico 2 months ago, I left my seat upright. That position was more comfortable for what I wanted to do during the flight (watch a movie I had cached on my tablet).

I agree that this is all a result of people wanting the lowest fares possible, but the airline also has to consider safety. The planes are certified for a maximum weight and also a maximum number of people that can egress within 60 or 90 seconds in an emergency. Pack too many more on some of these planes and you really start to hit those limits.

I will say that the MD-80 I was on was CRAMPED (milk run to Atlanta during commute/shuttle time), the 737 felt more roomy but it also was half-full.

On that particular flight, the genuine gratitude and pleasure of the family in question (rather than an arrogant or entitled attitude) made surrendering my seat to them a lot easier; besides, I had my iPod and have the gift of sleep (which means, I can sleep almost anywhere, anytime).

I will also add that I have noticed that Airbus planes tend to be somewhat roomier, whereas Boeing 737s are less so. In that context, a few inches can make the difference between comfort and discomfort. Mind you, that same difference of a few inches (when reduced) can add to airline profits.

Re safety, of course I agree with you, and cost cutting can also give rise safety issues.

 

[C DM]

I paid for a seat i am reclining. In fact i flew cross country this past sunday and my seat did not recline i complained and got moved to another seat with more leg room and fully reclyning seat.
I don't understand how you can tell someone not to recline when they paid for a seat, that is inconsiderate of you.

But I didn't pay for my seat to have someone in front of me make it practically impossible for me to even have the table open let alone have anything on it, or to have my legs cramped to the point that I can't move, just because you feel you have the ability to gain more space. So what you gain comes at the cost of me losing something. Why should your "rights" be any more important than mine? Certainly interesting where the inconsiderate part actually is in all of that.

 

[mobilehaathi]

Everyone pays for their seats. Anger should be directed at the Airlines; restraint and courtesy should be directed at your fellow passengers.

From lots of direct observation, I'm not sure this entirely works out in practice.

 

[gkarris]

These planes have PLENTY of room...

http://www.gulfstream.com/aircraft

 

[an-other]

Everyone pays for their seats. Anger should be directed at the Airlines; restraint and courtesy should be directed at your fellow passengers.

From lots of direct observation, I'm not sure this entirely works out in practice.

I agree entirely with this statement. The reclining seat was a byproduct of a different age when there was adequate room to use this feature without interfering with anyone else. There are solutions on offer for the airlines, but they keep shtum trying to make the issues between passengers.

The "get what you pay for" is not entirely accurate. This would imply a free market economy. Business travel is a necessity in my work, and the heavily regulated "legal monopolies" have very little incentive to change. My coach seat can be price competitive with a first class seat depending on the route and the advance time I can book. (Similarly, I can drive 3 hours to another airport, fly through my "home" airport, and pay a smaller fare for the trip by travelling 2 additional segments round trip.

 

[yg17]

But I didn't pay for my seat to have someone in front of me make it practically impossible for me to even have the table open let alone have anything on it, or to have my legs cramped to the point that I can't move, just because you feel you have the ability to gain more space. So what you gain comes at the cost of me losing something. Why should your "rights" be any more important than mine? Certainly interesting where the inconsiderate part actually is in all of that.

Then recline your seat, or pay extra for a premium cabin. I didn't pay for my seat that reclines to have someone behind me bitch and moan and who thinks they're entitled to tell me what to do with my seat. I'm not going to not recline my seat because the person behind me thinks whatever work they have to get done on their laptop is more important than me getting some sleep.

Look at it this way - when buying a seat on an airplane, you're paying for the space available when the person in front of you has reclined. If they're upright, then lucky you. You're getting more than you paid for.

 

[C DM]

Then recline your seat, or pay extra for a premium cabin. I didn't pay for my seat that reclines to have someone behind me bitch and moan and who thinks they're entitled to tell me what to do with my seat. I'm not going to not recline my seat because the person behind me thinks whatever work they have to get done on their laptop is more important than me getting some sleep.

Look at it this way - when buying a seat on an airplane, you're paying for the space available when the person in front of you has reclined. If they're upright, then lucky you. You're getting more than you paid for.

You are gaining something at my expense. That's basically all there's to it as for as any "inconsiderate" part goes, which is what I was addressing.

 

[yg17]

You are gaining something at my expense. That's basically all there's to it as for as any "inconsiderate" part goes, which is what I was addressing.

And by not reclining, I'm giving up something at my expense, because I paid for a seat that reclines.

You're not losing anything. When you pay for an economy seat, you should expect the person in front of you to recline and take that into consideration. If you don't like it, you have other options. Pay more for an exit row. Pay more for business class. Fly a private jet. But when you book the cheapest seat available, you should expect the person in front of you to recline.

 

[heehee]

These planes have PLENTY of room...


http://www.gulfstream.com/aircraft

Only $3,500-4,000/hour. I got to fly in one, not G5, but another brand, it's so nice.

 

[Q-Dog]

I have a bad back. If I sit for too long in any one position I get shooting pains down my legs and numbness in my feet that make it impossible to stand or walk. So, If the seat reclines I am going to recline.

Actually, I'm reclining right now.

 

[fleabite]

Two other options:

• Bring a newspaper. Reading the newspaper whilst someone is reclining will cause paper/head contact. No one can really complain as you're doing something a normal person would be expected to do on a plane
• I've only read about this, but I liked the idea. Put some fluid on your hand. Fake a sneezes, and make sure moisture flies into the air.

There are devices you can buy to prevent the seat in front of you from reclining. I'm unaware of any airline that would condone their usage. Some cases of their use have made the news, and airlines could ban you if you ignore requests to remove them.

You could also pull down your tray table and occassionally push down hard against it. It won't solve any issue, but it's a petty way to annoy the person in front of you. It's your call on the karmic impact.

The last thought would be to just ask the person or flight host/hostessfor assistance. There are times this can happen unintentionally, especially if the person in front of you is a bigger person. Just like legroom is tight, so is seat width for some. It's possible a thigh or knee hit the button inadvertently, and the person didn't even realise they've done it.

Interesting. Your last resort is the only civil one. Someone is going to beat the bejesus out of you one day.

At the level of the knee, reclining an economy seat a couple of degrees to its max only shortens the distance by about a half inch, at most.

You enemy is the airline, not the person in front of you. They pushed the seats closer the pinch pennies. Complain to them or pay for an upgrade, but don't pick a fight with your fellow passenger.

 

[C DM]

And by not reclining, I'm giving up something at my expense, because I paid for a seat that reclines.

You're not losing anything. When you pay for an economy seat, you should expect the person in front of you to recline and take that into consideration. If you don't like it, you have other options. Pay more for an exit row. Pay more for business class. Fly a private jet. But when you book the cheapest seat available, you should expect the person in front of you to recline.

You are gaining the little extra comfort that goes beyond the normal level of comfort that comes with the seat, but it's coming at the cost of someone losing something from even the base level of comfort. Yes, in all technicalities you are entitled to it, but that part of it isn't what's behind the whole "inconsiderate" part, which doesn't really work the way the person I originally responded to works. I mean it seems to work that way in the eyes of many--basically the whole "entitlement" thing I mentioned in another reply earlier--but that's not how it actually is.

 

[filmbufs]

I travel a lot and this is an interesting issue.

From what I can see, there is a sort of balance between one's right to recline, and some possible consideration for the impact of this on others. ...

Spoiler: More of his quote

Depending on circumstances, - such as who or what is behind me - I will not recline fully; and certainly, while eating, sitting in an economy seat while the person in front of you has fully reclined is something of a nuisance, and it is acceptable to ask them to raise their seat somewhat while the meal is in the process of being served.

If the option exists, I will travel Economy Plus, or Business Class, or seek seats in a part of the plane which may be less likely to be crowded (which tends to be the rear).

However, some people seem to feel that the entire space in their vicinity is theirs to be colonised. A little mutual respect and some small courtesy can go a long way to making travel a lot more bearable for everyone.

I agree with Scepticalscribe. It's all about balance, necessity and empathy. There's nothing wrong with being considerate towards others, in fact, it is admirable. They have a right to recline but that doesn't mean they shouldn't consider those around them. If they are going to sleep, fine. If not, is it imperative they have to recline? It's a choice.

Since I'm on the taller side, I'll actually cross my legs and brace my knee up to their seat before they arrive. If they do try to recline, they'll find they have a bit more limitations, for some odd reason. It doesn't always work but it often does. Without issues.

 

[AlliFlowers]

I never recline. Even flying transatlantic or transpacific. I can sleep as well sitting up as the few inches you get to recline a seat in coach. It is annoying when the person in front of me leaves the seat back during an entire flight, especially if they are restless sleepers and cause my tray table to bounce more than turbulence.

When I can afford it, I buy the seats with extra leg room. During short hops, I can manage. For lengthy trips, I have to stand frequently, and the seat reclined in front of me is always a convenient handle.

 

[hallux]

I will also add that I have noticed that Airbus planes tend to be somewhat roomier, whereas Boeing 737s are less so. In that context, a few inches can make the difference between comfort and discomfort. Mind you, that same difference of a few inches (when reduced) can add to airline profits.

I was on an A319 from Mexico back to O'Hare, I didn't find it any more or less roomy than the 737 on the way down. Of course, I was in the back of the 319 and near the middle of the 737, had aisle seats both times and the A319 was packed compared to the half-full 737. That was the unusual part about that trip, aisle seats on all 4 legs (I don't recall specifying such, seems it just worked out that way). The MD-88? I literally felt like I was in a sardine can it felt so tight. SO glad I'm not claustrophobic.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I was on an A319 from Mexico back to O'Hare, I didn't find it any more or less roomy than the 737 on the way down. Of course, I was in the back of the 319 and near the middle of the 737, had aisle seats both times and the A319 was packed compared to the half-full 737. That was the unusual part about that trip, aisle seats on all 4 legs (I don't recall specifying such, seems it just worked out that way). The MD-88? I literally felt like I was in a sardine can it felt so tight. SO glad I'm not claustrophobic.

Well, apparently, the fuselage of the Airbus is slightly wider, and the seats a little more commodious. My understanding is that the overhead bins can hold more, too.

I will say that every time I have flown economy in recent years, I have noticed a somewhat greater squeeze if I have been travelling on a Boeing than on an Airbus.

Mind you, in central Asia, on occasion circumstances dictated that I flew on planes flown by airlines that would have passed no European safety standard tests. But needs must.

 

[aaronvan]

Mind you, in central Asia, on occasion circumstances dictated that I flew on planes flown by airlines that would have passed no European safety standard tests. But needs must.

I flew on Aeroflot in the waning days of the U.S.S.R.

I'll never forget the unsmiling hostess wheeling her booze cart down the aisle with a burning cigarette hanging from her lips. My buddy carried-on an enormous porcelain planter (we were returning from China) and plopped it in an empty seat and put the seat belt around it. We were drunk as hell and they couldn't have cared less. Good times.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I flew on Aeroflot in the waning days of the U.S.S.R.

I'll never forget the unsmiling hostess wheeling her booze cart down the aisle with a burning cigarette hanging from her lips. My buddy carried-on an enormous porcelain planter (we were returning from China) and plopped it in an empty seat and put the seat belt around it. We were drunk as hell and they couldn't have cared less. Good times.

Ah, Aeroflot.

The first time in my life I flew Business Class, ironically, was with Aeroflot. I had been asked to travel to Kyrgyzstan after the first of their revolutions in the past ten years and traveled with Aeroflot to Bishkek.

More recently, (also in Kyrgyzstan, after their second revolution which was five years after the first), I was observing the first post revolution election and was in the country for a few months, which necessitated fairly frequent travel from the peripheries over precipitous mountains to the capital in a mix of Soviet era planes and discarded western planes (such as the BAE 146, which I have always rather liked) with airlines none of which passed western health and safety standards.

My choice was 18 to 24 hours by road, or an hour in the air over some of the most amazing mountain views I have ever seen. No contest. In those planes - which were invariably crammed with locals - you could see chicken coops on knees, boxes of vegetables sliding up and down the aisles, handmade carpets falling out of overhead bins, hostesses picking their way up and down the central aisle with impassive aplomb, and everyone (except the three to four westerners on the plane) chain smoking like characters in a movie from the 40s…..actually, these were flying buses and I must say I found it hilarious….

 

[JamesMike]

Ah, Aeroflot.

The first time in my life I flew Business Class, ironically, was with Aeroflot. I had been asked to travel to Kyrgyzstan after the first of their revolutions in the past ten years and traveled with Aeroflot to Bishkek.

More recently, (also in Kyrgyzstan, after their second revolution which was five years after the first), I was observing the first post revolution election and was in the country for a few months, which necessitated fairly frequent travel from the peripheries over precipitous mountains to the capital in a mix of Soviet era planes and discarded western planes (such as the BAE 146, which I have always rather liked) with airlines none of which passed western health and safety standards.

My choice was 18 to 24 hours by road, or an hour in the air over some of the most amazing mountain views I have ever seen. No contest. In those planes - which were invariably crammed with locals - you could see chicken coops on knees, boxes of vegetables sliding up and down the aisles, carpets falling out of overhead bins, hostesses picking their way upend down the central aisle with aplomb, and everyone (except the three to four westerners on the plane) chain smoking like characters in a movie from the 40s…..actually, these were flying buses and I must say I found it hilarious….

SS, Delvra Murphy was a fan of Aeroflot.

Being retired from the military I can fly space-A if a seat is available, and there have been times when I was the only passenger on the plane, plenty of room. Have flown to England, Germany, etc. that way. If you are looking for First-Class service you will not get, a box lunch is the order of day, but the flight is cheap (almost free). Having said that when I go to work overseas now as a civilian I do like flying business-class or higher, or by private plane.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

SS, Delvra Murphy was a fan of Aeroflot.

Being retired from the military I can fly space-A if a seat is available, and there have been times when I was the only passenger on the plane, plenty of room. Have flown to England, Germany, etc. that way. If you are looking for First-Class service you will not get, a box lunch is the order of day, but the flight is cheap (almost free). Having said that when I go to work overseas now as a civilian I do like flying business-class or higher, or by private plane.

Well, in the 1990s, as service went down (in pursuit of increasing profits) in western airlines (following Ryanair's depressing business model), the post communist world discovered customer serve for the first time in their history, and some of their airlines were - in a bizarre, almost touching way - rather good.

I thought it hilarious to fly Business Class with Aeroflot in 2005; I have flown with Czech airlines, LOT (Polish), Lithuanian, some of the weirder obscure stuff from the Balkans (Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian), Belarus air, Slovakian airlines, and sundry others. I once flew by turboprop into Kaliningrad which was hilarious, too.

For central Asia, it usually Turkish or Aeroflot.

 

[aaronvan]

SS, Delvra Murphy was a fan of Aeroflot.

Being retired from the military I can fly space-A if a seat is available, and there have been times when I was the only passenger on the plane, plenty of room. Have flown to England, Germany, etc. that way. If you are looking for First-Class service you will not get, a box lunch is the order of day, but the flight is cheap (almost free). Having said that when I go to work overseas now as a civilian I do like flying business-class or higher, or by private plane.

You forget to mention the fringe benefits of flying Space-A, like getting sprayed with cherry juice with the C-130's hydraulic lines rupture.

 

[John Jacob]

Once, on a crowded cross continental flight, I was requested to consider moving, and agreed to move from my (very nice) seat to a less comfortable one in order to facilitate a family who wished to sit together. At the end of the day, it somewhat inconvenienced me, and hugely facilitated them.

I've done exactly the same thing. On a flight from BOM to FRA, the pretty young lady next to me asked me if I could give up my aisle seat so that her husband could sit next to her. So I swapped seats with him and ended up in the middle of the middle row where they have four seats squashed together.

About fifteen minutes later, the flight attendant came to me with an in-flight meal tray and handed it to me, saying "Sir, you had ordered asian vegetarian." I told her I'd swapped seats and directed her to the gentleman who was now in my seat. I then fell asleep for a while. (International flights from India usually leave in the late night or the early morning).

Maybe an hour or so later, I was woken up by the sound of the flight attendant clearing the meal from my neighboring seat. I complained that I didn't get a meal. The flight attendant looked at her chart, and said I'd been served asian vegetarian. It was an honest mistake and I couldn't really complain. I asked her if they had any meals left, but they were all out.

I was so hungry that I couldn't sleep for the remaining eight hours of the flight. Not a pleasant experience.

 

[JamesMike]

You forget to mention the fringe benefits of flying Space-A, like getting sprayed with cherry juice with the C-130's hydraulic lines rupture.

Fortunately it has not happened so far to me, and have always had friendly crews who are helpful.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

SS, Delvra Murphy was a fan of Aeroflot.

Being retired from the military I can fly space-A if a seat is available, and there have been times when I was the only passenger on the plane, plenty of room. Have flown to England, Germany, etc. that way. If you are looking for First-Class service you will not get, a box lunch is the order of day, but the flight is cheap (almost free). Having said that when I go to work overseas now as a civilian I do like flying business-class or higher, or by private plane.

You forget to mention the fringe benefits of flying Space-A, like getting sprayed with cherry juice with the C-130's hydraulic lines rupture.

So, writing as a bespectacled lapsed pacifist European wimp, just what exactly is space-A?

I've done exactly the same thing. On a flight from BOM to FRA, the pretty young lady next to me asked me if I could give up my aisle seat so that her husband could sit next to her. So I swapped seats with him and ended up in the middle of the middle row where they have four seats squashed together.

About fifteen minutes later, the flight attendant came to me with an in-flight meal tray and handed it to me, saying "Sir, you had ordered asian vegetarian." I told her I'd swapped seats and directed her to the gentleman who was now in my seat. I then fell asleep for a while. (International flights from India usually leave in the late night or the early morning).

Maybe an hour or so later, I was woken up by the sound of the flight attendant clearing the meal from my neighboring seat. I complained that I didn't get a meal. The flight attendant looked at her chart, and said I'd been served asian vegetarian. It was an honest mistake and I couldn't really complain. I asked her if they had any meals left, but they were all out.

I was so hungry that I couldn't sleep for the remaining eight hours of the flight. Not a pleasant experience.

That was a very decent gesture, and a pity that the generous offer of the exchange was to your detriment re the inflight meal service.

 

[JamesMike]

So, writing as a bespectacled lapsed pacifist European wimp, just what exactly is space-A?



That was a very decent gesture, and a pity that the generous offer of the exchange was to your detriment re the inflight meal service.

Sorry SS, it travel on a military aircraft of there is space available on it. It is available pretty much world-wide.