Reconciling Watch Automatic Heart Rate Zones with Dr. Peter Attia

[dgdosen]

I'm a fan of the Apple Watch and Attia's podcasts on fitness.

Attia espouses 'Zone 2' training for ~3 hours a week and one session of Zone 5/HIIT a week. (that's what I'm getting out of it). He measures the top of Zone 2 as the upper limit of threshold for a person to workout while burning fat, or keeping "lactate level below two millimole per liter". He equates that to being able to workout at that level for hours and carry on a conversation, albeit stressed. For lack of a better measurement, one can define the top of Zone 2 as 60-70% of your max HR.

Zone 2 on the watch (with automatic settings) for me is way over that calculation (by 15-20 bpm). At the top of 'Apple' Zone 2, I can carry on a conversation, but I'm also sweating heavily over a 45 minute workout.

So - how do we reconcile the top end of the Apple Watch automatic Zone 2 HR level to the thinking of Attia? I want the top of my Zone 2 readings on my watch to reflect the top of my 'fat burning zone'. I trust Attia much more on this subject, and have adjusted my zone levels down a bit.

Anyone else have thoughts?

 

[Howard2k]

Did you measure your lactate levels?

 

[dgdosen]

Did you measure your lactate levels?

Nope.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Unless you get scientifically tested to find out exactly what your personal zones are, you won’t find the perfect zone 2. The best you can do is guesstimate.

 

[Howard2k]

Nope.

So really you're just picking which assumption seems to be the closest, but without any basis to validate, if I understand correctly. I would assume that Apple's zones are more accurate (only because they have a massive trove of data), but ultimately a few BPM seem like it's not going to make a material difference.

I would do a lactate test if you're really curious.

Also worth pointing out that the AW zones do change over time. I'm assuming you've given it a solid month or so to baseline?

 

[arc of the universe]

I'm a fan of the Apple Watch and Attia's podcasts on fitness.

Attia espouses 'Zone 2' training for ~3 hours a week and one session of Zone 5/HIIT a week. (that's what I'm getting out of it). He measures the top of Zone 2 as the upper limit of threshold for a person to workout while burning fat, or keeping "lactate level below two millimole per liter". He equates that to being able to workout at that level for hours and carry on a conversation, albeit stressed. For lack of a better measurement, one can define the top of Zone 2 as 60-70% of your max HR.

Zone 2 on the watch (with automatic settings) for me is way over that calculation (by 15-20 bpm). At the top of 'Apple' Zone 2, I can carry on a conversation, but I'm also sweating heavily over a 45 minute workout.

So - how do we reconcile the top end of the Apple Watch automatic Zone 2 HR level to the thinking of Attia? I want the top of my Zone 2 readings on my watch to reflect the top of my 'fat burning zone'. I trust Attia much more on this subject, and have adjusted my zone levels down a bit.

Anyone else have thoughts?

great post. thanks.

i looked at my Heart Rate zones for the Watch (as listed in the iPhone app Watch).
i only use Automatic for the calculation of my heart rate zones.
i played around with Manual, but it didn't work out for me probably due to my not fully understanding how to use a manual setting in the context of training.
so i have left it to be set automatically.

there is a comment written as a note that says:
"...Max and resting heart rate values are updated on the first of every month."

in your post you mention the Doctor's recommendation that most of your training program be done at the top of Zone 2. that makes sense to me.
when i review my data after a nice, long, satisfyingly vigorous workout, i am seeing that most of my time is at the very top of the automatically set Zone 2 or bottom of Zone 3. i can carry on a conversation, and sing (but not so comfortably). with each run or power walk i do, i try to stay at the very top of Zone 2 or lower Zone 3, over the course of the 8 or 10 km i am working out; while at the same time ensure that somewhere along my workout i push it to the maximum i can (usually by running up hilly places for 5 or 10 minutes). for me that maximum seems to be what the Automatic setting is correctly estimating my Max zone to be.

for me, Attia's advice is matching my own experience. i can go for hours and hours at the top of Zone 2 / bottom of Zone 3; what Attia is saying is that maintaining this (slightly) elevated level over a longer period of time provides the maximum benefit (probably to certain types of workouts and people - but not to athletes needing much more intensive training).

that the top of zone 2 for you does not fit within the range of 60% to 70% of Max heart rate isn't the point, it isn't the set-in-stone rule as your own and everybody's fitness level is changing monthly. for me, leaving it to Automatic does seem to fit what Attiia is saying, since apple's Automatic setting is updated monthly based on my own actual past data.

(sweating a lot can be ignored; as sweating has more to do with several other factors unrelated to heart rate or even overall fitness level)

 

[shertzaik]

dgdosen,

I too am a fan of Peter Attia and his training methods. I have been following his zone 2 recommendations now for a few months and have really seen the pounds drop off. He posted an Instagram video the other day on Zone 2 that I think makes a lot of sense. It's really not as much looking at the heart rate as it is that conversation piece being a little difficult which he performs on the bike during the video. I'm sure you can find it. I also find my HR is a little higher than zone 2 even though I feel like it is the right spot according to the conversation I would be having. I've been using this instead and it goes about 2-3 Bpm over the Zone 2 high end for me. Do what feels natural and you'll be fine. I also do a Zone 5 (4 mins at Zone 5, 4 mins at Zone 2 for 5-6 sessions with a warmup and cooldown) once per week. Good luck.

 

[dgdosen]

So really you're just picking which assumption seems to be the closest, but without any basis to validate, if I understand correctly. I would assume that Apple's zones are more accurate (only because they have a massive trove of data), but ultimately a few BPM seem like it's not going to make a material difference.

I would do a lactate test if you're really curious.

Also worth pointing out that the AW zones do change over time. I'm assuming you've given it a solid month or so to baseline?

I've been on the Apple Watch for years! We have no knowledge of how Apple sets these ranges. There's very little/no documentation from Apple's side. That doesn't give me confidence in their numbers.

 

[Howard2k]

I've been on the Apple Watch for years! We have no knowledge of how Apple sets these ranges. There's very little/no documentation from Apple's side. That doesn't give me confidence in their numbers.

Apple has stated that they use your age and health data to set the zones.
Tim has said that he wants Apple's greatest contribution to be in health specifically.

I don't think Apple is simply phoning it in with these metrics, but sure, it's possible.

 

[dgdosen]

Apple has stated that they use your age and health data to set the zones.
Tim has said that he wants Apple's greatest contribution to be in health specifically.

I don't think Apple is simply phoning it in with these metrics, but sure, it's possible.

Is that documented anywhere? There's a page on HR settings in the watch manual PDF... That's all I see.

 

[Howard2k]

Is that documented anywhere? There's a page on HR settings in the watch manual PDF... That's all I see.

Not really.

Here:

View Heart Rate Zones on Apple Watch

You can view Heart Rate Zone information on your Apple Watch and learn about the intensity level of your cardio-focused workout.

support.apple.com

"Note: Heart Rate Zones are calculated only if you’ve entered your date of birth in the Health app on your iPhone."

and

"By default, Heart Rate Zones are calculated for you based on your health data, but you can manually edit those zones."


Nothing with much detail.

 

[dgdosen]

Not really.

Here:

View Heart Rate Zones on Apple Watch

You can view Heart Rate Zone information on your Apple Watch and learn about the intensity level of your cardio-focused workout.

support.apple.com

"Note: Heart Rate Zones are calculated only if you’ve entered your date of birth in the Health app on your iPhone."

and

"By default, Heart Rate Zones are calculated for you based on your health data, but you can manually edit those zones."


Nothing with much detail.

That's kind of sparse. Tim spends enough time talking about how the AW can save your life. You'd think he encourage his teams to better optimize a wearer's healthspan.