Refund Proposition

0989382

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Original poster
Jan 11, 2018
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A very helpful Apple Genius today, having looked at my 2018 TouchBar 512GB MBP which is having that annoying double press key issue was able to give me an interesting proposition... A full refund of my MBP + Apple Care due to the issues I've had. The sort of catch is, it's Apple Store credit only. What to do? I have a week to decide.

I've got the best portable Mac money can buy. Just the constant issues and having to get rid of it for 1 week at a time plus a 140 mile round trip isn't working well with my professional need for the Mac. Bar the 15", which involves a lot more money from me and won't necessarily solve the issue.. Apple doesn't have another real portable Mac solution?

My other idea was to buy a Mac mini, with insane specs. Which I can, but that and the only option of the 4K display (a nice display, but possibly overkill for me?). With the lack of portability other than having it available at my office desk and my home desk. In terms of university and at a relatives house to study / work on projects it can't compete.

I thought a Mac mini and an iPad Pro, but unsure if the iPad Pro really can do my professional work. I mean, it CAN but will the split screen / quirks of iOS enable me a lot of efficiency? I can't see it.

I can't get a cash refund, and to be fair, Apple are being very good as usual with their customer care by even offering me this proposition 3 months into ownership. I am an Apple Care customer too of a £2,000+ purchase.

In terms of getting this repaired, it'll mean giving it up for a week, no alternative at work (I need Mac software and a reasonable bit of power (i5) to work) and two 140 mile trips.. And last time my old Mac came back it was done so badly (jammed power key) that they offered me the chance to refund it for this TouchBar top of the line model. So I'm scared to leave a factory assembled to perfection machine to the hands of some repair guy in the back store who doesn't care for attention to detail much on what is, a precious device, to me.

I had one crafty idea: buy a Mac mini etc, some new products and sell them for a little off cash value when I do brand new, to recover my cash and consider leaving the Apple ecosystem altogether... but that's a whole different argument and I'm unbelievably efficient at using macOS and its software tools.. to the point where I attribute it to how I got my job and a promotion in it as I could work better than anyone else. Will I ever achieve that on Windows? I don't know.

Some confusing choices to be made. What would you do?
 

SDColorado

Contributor
Nov 6, 2011
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Highlands Ranch, CO
Audit13's suggestion might be the one with the least loss to you. Is the "refund" coming by way of Apple Gift Card where you could put it up for sale in the Marketplace at a slight discount?
 
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lambertjohn

macrumors 65816
Jun 17, 2012
1,041
1,017
Do you have an old backup computer you can use for a while? If so, take the gift card and wait for the 2019 MacBooks to come out, and then buy one. Rumor has it there's a 16" MBP coming out sometime this year, and probably all new 13" and 15" MacBooks. Might be worth your while to wait for them to hit the market. Anyway, that's what I would do.
 

maflynn

Moderator
Staff member
May 3, 2009
64,112
30,707
Boston
First, you need to decide if you will stay in the ecosystem or get a windows machine.

that will drive what to do with the credit. Getting a Mac Mini is sound advise, or look to see if Apple is selling 2015 refurbs and get one of those and then decide in the future if you want to stay with Apple or not.
 

poorcody

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2013
788
603
Have you had to replace the keyboard multiple times already, or just once? I wasn't sure from what you wrote.

Honestly, I would take the full refund, and turn around and buy another one on the spot. Then you don't have to deal with repair issues, and you can start "fresh". I think your odds of having two keyboard failures is low, although I know there are plenty of people here that will tell me I'm wrong...

Another option: I have a friend who had a laptop stolen once, and he never wanted to carry an expensive laptop around after that. So he has a fully-spec'ed Mac Mini sitting at home, and he connects to it remotely from a cheap Chromebook. Can't do everything a MacBook can, but it lets him have a portable Mac without the problems. (He always has excellent Internet connectivity on both ends which is essential.)

And then there is this option:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/magic-keyboard-on-top.2171757/
 

seeforyourself

macrumors 6502
Dec 1, 2014
343
186
4 repairs into my 2017 macbook pro 15" thats well over $4k. Also the issue still persists. The keyboard issue is annoying and it seems like if you replace it with another butterfly keyboard, you still a big chance of experiencing the issue down the road...
 
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SDColorado

Contributor
Nov 6, 2011
4,274
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Highlands Ranch, CO
4 repairs into my 2017 macbook pro 15" thats well over $4k. Also the issue still persists. The keyboard issue is annoying and it seems like if you replace it with another butterfly keyboard, you still a big chance of experiencing the issue down the road...
Unfortunately that appears to be the gist of it, since the replacement keyboard will be exactly the same as the one that failed. You're kicking the can down the road and hoping you don't stumble upon it again later.
 
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JustinRP37

macrumors regular
Jun 14, 2016
191
331
New York, NY
I am just shocked that Apple is standing by these keyboards and putting them into even more machines. They really are garbage. My 2016 has been in the shop 4 separate times, each with 1-2 weeks out of service time. What Apple does not realize is they are destroying their computing business. Maybe they do not care, but working in academics in a scientific setting, we have been moving over to the Windows 10 and Linux world and not looking back. I can say with just about 100% confidence as soon as AppleCare is up on this machine I'm selling it and moving to Windows as well. I would take the refund and then sell it with a $100 discount or something just to be rid of it. And sorry, but Apple's customer service has really plummeted. Offering a refund is okay, but the problem should not exist in the first place. Please Apple just license macOS and be done with it. The hardware is absolutely terrible these days. Further for a company that cares so much about the environment these computers are horrible for the environment. "Well my w key stopped working guess I need a whole new topcase".
 

seeforyourself

macrumors 6502
Dec 1, 2014
343
186
I am just shocked that Apple is standing by these keyboards and putting them into even more machines. They really are garbage. My 2016 has been in the shop 4 separate times, each with 1-2 weeks out of service time. What Apple does not realize is they are destroying their computing business. Maybe they do not care, but working in academics in a scientific setting, we have been moving over to the Windows 10 and Linux world and not looking back. I can say with just about 100% confidence as soon as AppleCare is up on this machine I'm selling it and moving to Windows as well. I would take the refund and then sell it with a $100 discount or something just to be rid of it. And sorry, but Apple's customer service has really plummeted. Offering a refund is okay, but the problem should not exist in the first place. Please Apple just license macOS and be done with it. The hardware is absolutely terrible these days. Further for a company that cares so much about the environment these computers are horrible for the environment. "Well my w key stopped working guess I need a whole new topcase".
I am just shocked that Apple is standing by these keyboards and putting them into even more machines. They really are garbage. My 2016 has been in the shop 4 separate times, each with 1-2 weeks out of service time. What Apple does not realize is they are destroying their computing business. Maybe they do not care, but working in academics in a scientific setting, we have been moving over to the Windows 10 and Linux world and not looking back. I can say with just about 100% confidence as soon as AppleCare is up on this machine I'm selling it and moving to Windows as well. I would take the refund and then sell it with a $100 discount or something just to be rid of it. And sorry, but Apple's customer service has really plummeted. Offering a refund is okay, but the problem should not exist in the first place. Please Apple just license macOS and be done with it. The hardware is absolutely terrible these days. Further for a company that cares so much about the environment these computers are horrible for the environment. "Well my w key stopped working guess I need a whole new topcase".
The kicker is the refund being store credit!!!

I heard that Apple is redesigning it this year probably for this reason, along with the flex gate.

I am going to demand a replacement or an actual refund next design.
 

crawfish963

macrumors 6502a
Apr 16, 2010
552
296
Texas
Do you have an old backup computer you can use for a while? If so, take the gift card and wait for the 2019 MacBooks to come out, and then buy one. Rumor has it there's a 16" MBP coming out sometime this year, and probably all new 13" and 15" MacBooks. Might be worth your while to wait for them to hit the market. Anyway, that's what I would do.
This would be my suggestion. There is a decent chance that a keyboard redesign is coming this calendar year. If you can survive until then, I would. If you can swing it, I would consider purchasing an older notebook (2012 or so MBP) to get you by until you know what hardware is going to be released (June should tell us more).
 
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Fishrrman

macrumors P6
Feb 20, 2009
17,449
5,665
OP wrote:
"Some confusing choices to be made. What would you do?"

EASY.
Accept the refund.
Buy another Mac of your choice.
Then do with it what you want -- keep or sell.
EASY.
 

0989382

Suspended
Original poster
Jan 11, 2018
528
365
Do you know of anyone else who needs Apple equipment and is willing to give you the cash equivalent so you can use a portion or all of the store credit?
I asked around, nobody did!

Audit13's suggestion might be the one with the least loss to you. Is the "refund" coming by way of Apple Gift Card where you could put it up for sale in the Marketplace at a slight discount?
Yeah they said they'd put it on a gift card so I could spend it at my leisure. Only issue is, if I get rid of my Mac on Saturday there needs to be a new machine on my desk come Monday at 9am. Though this is my best chance of getting my money back, then the question becomes what to replace it with.

Do you have an old backup computer you can use for a while? If so, take the gift card and wait for the 2019 MacBooks to come out, and then buy one. Rumor has it there's a 16" MBP coming out sometime this year, and probably all new 13" and 15" MacBooks. Might be worth your while to wait for them to hit the market. Anyway, that's what I would do.
I don't unfortunately, I'm thinking I'll need to invest in a backup Mac. But used Macs are still hundreds of £ sadly. I wish Apple would make me this offer when that's the case, though to be honest if they could repair this for 3 years until I get my money's worth and I had a backup that might be my best bet. I do like the machine.

First, you need to decide if you will stay in the ecosystem or get a windows machine.

that will drive what to do with the credit. Getting a Mac Mini is sound advise, or look to see if Apple is selling 2015 refurbs and get one of those and then decide in the future if you want to stay with Apple or not.
I've put a lot of thought into leaving the ecosystem. I've tried it before without much success sadly. Though, I've never put 'Mac money' into non Mac hardware, which might explain a lot of the bad experience of the past. Still, this is a tonne of money and unlike before now I depend on my Mac at work. It allows me to be a true jack of all trades, beyond my discipline of marketing and communications.

The Mac mini is a good idea but I'd need to buy a display for work and as Apple is out of stock in the UK of the nice 4K display that'd mean hundreds of £ from my own pocket, and a residual value on the Apple gift card, with no portable computing solution. Though I could get a Mac mini and a basic MacBook / Air / Pro nTB.

I am leaning towards staying with Apple having read another users thread, which I think you replied to as well, about the Surface Book. I feel like he was quite fair and may have had the same experience I'd be having.

Have you had to replace the keyboard multiple times already, or just once? I wasn't sure from what you wrote.

Honestly, I would take the full refund, and turn around and buy another one on the spot. Then you don't have to deal with repair issues, and you can start "fresh". I think your odds of having two keyboard failures is low, although I know there are plenty of people here that will tell me I'm wrong...

Another option: I have a friend who had a laptop stolen once, and he never wanted to carry an expensive laptop around after that. So he has a fully-spec'ed Mac Mini sitting at home, and he connects to it remotely from a cheap Chromebook. Can't do everything a MacBook can, but it lets him have a portable Mac without the problems. (He always has excellent Internet connectivity on both ends which is essential.)

And then there is this option:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/magic-keyboard-on-top.2171757/
i got a full refund 2 months into ownership of the 15" because of doublestroking key + a flicker issue + ""unprovable"" audio issue.
I've never had keyboard issues, but two screen replacements on my 2017 nTB model I had before this. Still a 7 day inconvenience and poor workmanship one of the times from Apple though. This is my first issue with the keyboard on a 3 month old 2018 TouchBar model.

Maybe that's what I'll do, just take a fresh one. I will still have AppleCare then too. Never considered that, though my talking of having a Mac mini is why the Genius bent over backwards to help it happen for me, wonder if they'd even let me do it. As the Mac mini thing, they've came up with a solution. With this, its like me directly costing them a tonne despite their policy being able to fix my machine and not open a new box on me. Might be a big finger up to them?

That's an interesting solution but I don't know if I could remotely tune in with the same efficiency I enjoy at the minute.

4 repairs into my 2017 macbook pro 15" thats well over $4k. Also the issue still persists. The keyboard issue is annoying and it seems like if you replace it with another butterfly keyboard, you still a big chance of experiencing the issue down the road...
Apple will give you a full refund if you've had two repairs on the same issue inside a year. That's how I went from my 2017 base model to my 2018 top end TB model, with £700 my way too though...

Unfortunately that appears to be the gist of it, since the replacement keyboard will be exactly the same as the one that failed. You're kicking the can down the road and hoping you don't stumble upon it again later.
That's true. The only thing making me tolerate it though is the reality (or at least, my opinion) that nothing else can pick up the task like the Mac and no other Mac solution fits my needs so well but isn't subject to the keyboard issue :-/

I am just shocked that Apple is standing by these keyboards and putting them into even more machines. They really are garbage. My 2016 has been in the shop 4 separate times, each with 1-2 weeks out of service time. What Apple does not realize is they are destroying their computing business. Maybe they do not care, but working in academics in a scientific setting, we have been moving over to the Windows 10 and Linux world and not looking back. I can say with just about 100% confidence as soon as AppleCare is up on this machine I'm selling it and moving to Windows as well. I would take the refund and then sell it with a $100 discount or something just to be rid of it. And sorry, but Apple's customer service has really plummeted. Offering a refund is okay, but the problem should not exist in the first place. Please Apple just license macOS and be done with it. The hardware is absolutely terrible these days. Further for a company that cares so much about the environment these computers are horrible for the environment. "Well my w key stopped working guess I need a whole new topcase".
To be honest, under warranty, that's Apple's problem and cost to deal with. My issue is when it's costing me a week without it and my machine is returned with a jammed power button and facial hairs on it :-/ Wish they could sell me parts to fit - or at least offer same day repairs to make my travelling less annoying.

The kicker is the refund being store credit!!!

I heard that Apple is redesigning it this year probably for this reason, along with the flex gate.

I am going to demand a replacement or an actual refund next design.
They'll replace it if you have the same issue twice in one year .

This would be my suggestion. There is a decent chance that a keyboard redesign is coming this calendar year. If you can survive until then, I would. If you can swing it, I would consider purchasing an older notebook (2012 or so MBP) to get you by until you know what hardware is going to be released (June should tell us more).
If only I had this offer closer to that time, that'd be handy.

OP wrote:
"Some confusing choices to be made. What would you do?"

EASY.
Accept the refund.
Buy another Mac of your choice.
Then do with it what you want -- keep or sell.
EASY.
Question then is, which Mac? - a hard one.
 

seeforyourself

macrumors 6502
Dec 1, 2014
343
186
Apple will give you a full refund if you've had two repairs on the same issue inside a year. That's how I went from my 2017 base model to my 2018 top end TB model, with £700 my way too though...
I had the first repair within 1 years of owning it and then the second one 6 months afterwards. I am 4 repairs total in now.
 

Fishrrman

macrumors P6
Feb 20, 2009
17,449
5,665
"Question then is, which Mac? - a hard one."

If you want an iMac, see if they will special order you one with an SSD inside. This can be generally be done through Apple's online ordering pages, but not sure if the store manager would agree to it. YOU MUST ASK.
Get a 27" 5k iMac, 3.5ghz, 8gb RAM, 256 or 512gb SSD.

If you want a Mini, get the 3.0 i5 model with 16gb RAM and a 512gb SSD.

Again, that was EASY!
 

buran-energia

macrumors regular
Oct 9, 2017
241
76
Apple will give you a full refund if you've had two repairs on the same issue inside a year. That's how I went from my 2017 base model to my 2018 top end TB model, with £700 my way too though...
Huh? That's probably an exception. I heard about 3 repairs in total and when it breaks for the 4th time, they might replace it.

Do you mean you had 2 repairs and on the third time it broke, they made that offer? As I had an issue with a screen and a key 2 times already (they are repairing it for the second time for the same issue within 2 months).
 

Sovon Halder

macrumors 6502
Dec 3, 2016
412
147
India
Huh? That's probably an exception. I heard about 3 repairs in total and when it breaks for the 4th time, they might replace it.

Do you mean you had 2 repairs and on the third time it broke, they made that offer? As I had an issue with a screen and a key 2 times already (they are repairing it for the second time for the same issue within 2 months).
The double key press issue is ruining my life. 2017 MBP TB owner here.

Five months back it was only with the key 'N'. Now it's spread across 'G' , 'X' , 'I'. Composing anything using the keyboard is an experience from living hell. On top of that, my left 'Option' key flickers light randomly every half an hour, what is up with that! (Stranger Things ?)

I heard that there are 4 year repair program for issues like that. Nonetheless, this butterfly engineering is a plague.
 

seeforyourself

macrumors 6502
Dec 1, 2014
343
186
Huh? That's probably an exception. I heard about 3 repairs in total and when it breaks for the 4th time, they might replace it.

Do you mean you had 2 repairs and on the third time it broke, they made that offer? As I had an issue with a screen and a key 2 times already (they are repairing it for the second time for the same issue within 2 months).
I’m going to be on my 5th repair. So I debunked that myth.

Repair #4 was same day as repair #3 since they repaired it horribly and they ruined my display and they never fixed my usb c ports that I told them to do. It goes to show they never check their repairs.


As we speak my U key came back messed up but I’m waiting for the 2019 redesigned ones to come out since it will be a better improvement if they decide to replace it on the fifth time.