Reinstalled Mac OS X

Discussion in 'macOS' started by wrldwzrd89, Jul 3, 2007.

  1. wrldwzrd89 macrumors G5

    wrldwzrd89

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    #1
    They say Macs don't fill up with crud over time due to the lack of the "design flaw" that is the Windows Registry. This, in my experience, at least, is simply not true... mind you, my Mac wasn't running slowly or anything like that. It was, however, clogged up with old demos and other software I downloaded but haven't used again... that is, until I backed up my system (you know, just in case anything went horribly wrong), wiped it clean, reinstalled Mac OS X, applied all the updates, and reinstalled (and reactivated) the applications I actually wanted to keep using.

    To some extent, this cleanup was prompted by a forum user (I don't remember the name) who had a link in their signature called "Programs you should never use". I had some programs and frameworks on that site's "bad list", which are now gone :p :D

    Anyone else done something like this to their Mac?
     
  2. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #2
    Wait a doggone minute here. You're saying even though OSX continues to perform, it needs to be reinstalled just to get rid of applications you don't use? And this is supposed to be roughly equivalent to Windows being hosed by a grunged up Registry? Please clarify!
     
  3. wrldwzrd89 thread starter macrumors G5

    wrldwzrd89

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    #3
    Your reply made me laugh ;)
    Anyway, yeah - since Mac OS X doesn't have a proper uninstall feature, and it's difficult to tell exactly which app installed what stuff where (I was trying to figure out where this darned framework file was coming from - turns out it was from a software program I didn't want to keep anyway. I found this out through poking around inside the package contents of various apps, something a regular user shouldn't have to do just to uninstall something.), I decided that it would be easier and safer to just wipe the thing clean and start again. Some apps are particularly bad about dumping frameworks and kernel extensions all over the place... and I have reason to believe that one of the apps I tossed out with the cleanup was one of those.
     
  4. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #4
    Any application that installs kernel extension should have an uninstaller, but these should be in the minority. The "proper" uninstaller for most OSX applications is dragging to the Trash.

    But again, I have to wonder about what problem you are trying to fix when nothing appears to be broken.
     
  5. wrldwzrd89 thread starter macrumors G5

    wrldwzrd89

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    #5
    What I was trying to fix was this: How to remove all the frameworks, preference files, app support stuff, and other files that the various apps I've installed put on my Mac. Preference files I'm not as concerned about as I am frameworks, since those usually contain executables that could do who knows what. Let's just say that I didn't trust some of the stuff I found in my /Library and ~/Library folders but didn't know what was supposed to be there and what wasn't.
     
  6. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #6
    Still, if none these files were causing you any problems...
     
  7. theLimit macrumors 6502a

    theLimit

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    #7
    If a few tiny files that no longer do anything get on your nerves that badly, why not just do a spotlight search for the name of the app you removed and delete them. Or you could use one of the many apps such as AppZapper, AppCleaner, CleanApp, SuperPop, or the free AppDelete. No need to reinstall the OS. This is in no way comparable to a corrupt Windows registry, more like the exact same as uninstalling an app in Windows, which leaves .dll files and other junk floating around on the system.
     
  8. soLoredd macrumors 6502a

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    #8
    Yeah, I don't quite get the comparison either. Just go into your Spotlight and delete the files from there (if you really feel you must). You contradicted yourself in your original post as well. You say it's not true that OSX doesn't suffer the same problems as Windows, yet you then say you had no system issues; instead, your reinstalled to make yourself feel better.

    Uh, I have to ask, where's your proof that OSX and Windows Registry are similar? There's a big difference between how the two operating systems handle themselves and feeling good about ridding of crud.
     
  9. wrldwzrd89 thread starter macrumors G5

    wrldwzrd89

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    #9
    Okay, point taken. My original point has been rebuffed by an honest description of the facts.

    Thanks for the suggestions - alas, it's not that simple. Spotlight wouldn't have found that framework that I found by doing some poking around, for instance.
     
  10. ortuno2k macrumors 6502a

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    Hollywood, FL
    #10
    I've done this also in the past, first with my iMac and then with my current MBP - when I purchased it and recently.
    I don't mind, and sometimes I feel like a new install makes the system snappier.
     
  11. polycat33 macrumors 6502

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    #11
    I just moved over from Windows within the last month and I was very confused by the idea of simply dragging a program to the trash to get rid of it, so I just had to get one of those free downloads to uninstall stuff, just to make me feel better! Although, when my trial period ran out on CleanApp and before I found a fully functional free one, the spotlight search did it for me, and it seems that those programs probably do exactly the same thing as a spotlight search. But I agree why worry about those hidden files that spotlight wouldn't find if they aren't negatively affecting anything? As I said, I like the peace of mind of knowing that my old apps are completely gone, but if I had to do a complete reinstall of OS X to get that peace of mind I'd probably realize it wasn't that worth it. Hope you don't have to do it again!

    Btw, I'm super curious. What programs were on the bad list?
     
  12. wrldwzrd89 thread starter macrumors G5

    wrldwzrd89

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    #12
    TextWrangler (You don't need another text editor in Mac OS X unless it offers something like collaborative editing)
    Anything that installs the eSellerate framework (that gets installed without your permission by software that uses it to activate itself)

    Those are the two I remember that were on the bad list.
     
  13. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #13
    I'd be interested to see this bad list. I've had TextWrangler installed for years with no ill effects.
     
  14. wrldwzrd89 thread starter macrumors G5

    wrldwzrd89

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    #14
  15. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #15
    Why thank you, I am one of those special needs children. ;)

    EDIT: Read some of the entries, and aside from the writer's obvious distain for some of this software, I don't see where he documents any actual problems with having them installed.
     
  16. Fairly macrumors regular

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    Sep 24, 2006
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    Cambridge UK
    #16
    Let's take this post by post and point out where misunderstandings perhaps lie.
    Yes and no. There's a difference between "crud" and "stuff that continues to run". Ordinarily "crud" won't hurt you or drag you down but "stuff that continues to run" can.
    Yes it does: drag to Trash and empty Trash. OS X doesn't need "uninstalls" because it doesn't need "installs". Well behaved Windows apps don't need it either but a lot of what's coming today is third rate and using this Registry idea to really screw things up. And that's an unsightly mess. The Registry in this case is used to communicate with "COM" objects normally packaged in the same install. Which makes you wonder what the F they're doing as they could communicate with these modules without going through the Registry. But that just goes to show a lot of programmers have their heads up their you-know-what and do things because they've seen others do it and yes it creates a mess and yes then you need an uninstaller.

    Thankfully OS X - as Unix systems in general - don't need this as they're (again thankfully) built an entirely different way. (Did I say "thankfully"? :D)
    Yes unless you have something like Tracker (rixstep.com/tracker) and run it at the time you install and first run the software. Things like AppZapper use a "heuristic" approach to find files they think are associated with your app; it's well designed and only suggests what you are to remove (and that's the best that can be done given the circumstances) but it's been demonstrated often enough that they cannot find everything. They will not, for example, find associated frameworks. And frankly you wouldn't want them to: how do you know the frameworks are not used by other applications?

    This gets Windows users into their "DLL hell" from which they cannot escape. Well behaved apps are expected to "register" their DLLs (frameworks) on install and if they're already registered by another app then the "reference count" is incremented. On uninstall the reference counts are decremented and when the count reaches zero either the uninstaller removes the DLLs or suggests the user do so.

    But how is an ordinary user supposed to know right from left and up from down? It's impossible. And what's the worst part of it is that if any single app installer screws up and does not play by the rules of the game then you either get broken apps or you get "crud" hanging around. So there is no easy solution for this after the fact and AppZapper does the right thing and doesn't touch it. In such case the only thing you can do is use something like Tracker (and as far as I know it's unique at the moment so there's really no "something" about it unfortunately). OK, you could do like DF and list everything on your HDD before and after and compare with a developers tool like FileMerge but are you going to do this? I think not. It's too much work.
    Yes but you are running a Unix system and unless you give away your password they can't really dump "all over the place" - they can only dump in your user account area. You have to understand that when you give away that password all bets are off. As for kernel extensions and stuff: what kind of software are you using? I think most well behaved applications don't need to do this. I certainly don't let any applications do this on my Macs. If they want to do this it's you who must decide if they're trustworthy, for once you let them get in that deep you jeopardize the stability and security of your system. They don't have to be evil - stupid is sufficient in this context. :sad:
    Yes.
    Frameworks can't run on their own. What you need to be worried about are input managers and startup items. Input managers hijack every application that runs and startup items hijack your entire system in single user mode, which is something you can't even get to from the Terminal as root.
    Give it up. He asked a question and he wants an answer. Go visit Daring Fireball.
    None of those help. Spotlight certainly won't and the others - well you have to understand how they work (and don't work). See above.
    True.
    I don't think he said that - do you?
    You can say that again! :D
    This is nitpicking. He's not a troll. He asked a legitimate question and has a legitimate point. End of controversy.
    Garbage. If you don't understand, stay out. If you want to deliberately confuse things, stay further out.
    Exactly.
    That's hardly likely unless it's down to file layout on the hard drive and minor fragmentation issues.
    I should think you'd be happy to break with that awful Windows mindset! Why did you bring it with you? ;)
    Those eSellerate people are lowlifes. Try signing up for their system as a developer. Incredible. It remains a mystery to a lot of people why anyone uses them. And yes, they stealth install on your systems and you're never told. Is that nice? And those are programs that can run. What are they doing? Do you know? Do they tell you? No thanks.
    Or unless you want something that doesn't cost as much and doesn't crash as often for ridiculous reasons.
    Of course you've had. ;)
    Then you need to read again. And perhaps go back to the beginning of this thread and see why it all started. A lot of those "reviews" (if you can call them that) have what I might call "damage reports" where they run their Tracker afterwards. In most cases and beyond the obvious ease this program makes of the process you can see countless examples of how AppZapper and similar tools are not going to find these things. Key question: does AppZapper find an eSellerate framework on an uninstall operation? I think not.
     
  17. osirisX macrumors regular

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    #17
    That list is so old. It's showing off 10.2 versions of software. Did you get rid of Quicksilver?
     
  18. wrldwzrd89 thread starter macrumors G5

    wrldwzrd89

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    #18
    Nope. I never installed it in the first place. I don't see a real need for it.
     
  19. osirisX macrumors regular

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  20. DoFoT9 macrumors P6

    DoFoT9

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    #20
    wow *tear* i never thout i would see the day. tho i can understand wher you are comming from.
    but
    its really not that hard to delete all of the demos and shareware versions. most of them chuck their stuff in the preferences and in the "application support".. not that ahrd to delete them really. that is how you bypass some of the programs trial verisons..
     
  21. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #21
    No kidding. Sarcasm is rarely appreciated and almost never welcomed.
     
  22. polycat33 macrumors 6502

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    #22
    I'm surprised Quicksilver is on the list, it seems that SO many people swear by it.
     
  23. foog macrumors newbie

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    Jul 8, 2007
    #23
    I took a look at that "bad list" - I've never before seen an application dissed for having PCRE support. I really have to wonder about this guy - does he seriously not understand the difference between using OS X's "find" feature and using PCRE search & replace functions? :rolleyes:
     

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