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- Thread starter twoodcc
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thanks for sharing.
yeah, i do need to work on the trust thing. but the thing is, i don't do things to make her second guess me, but clearly she does.
Trust is overrated. If something is about to happen it will, somethings stimulate things to happen faster but stopping someone from doing something once wont garantee it wont happen. Trying to get her to stop going to clubs with her friends (that you dont know) may not help. Sounds like she really likes her new style, since you metioned that you tried talking to her to no avail.
Also trusting someone with your whole heart doesnot guarantee anything. Its something i like to call "Chronic Optimism" and all human beings suffer from it (one belives what is easiest to belive, which is what he wants to belive). Ever wondered why all girls look pretty in the dark?
Anyways i learned about trust the hard way, the minute i trust her most, she messed, still recuperating from that, but i sstill love her and we're still together.
Fact of teh matter is, it is plain that her new "lifestyle" is hurting your relationship, my advice. Tell her just that. (I can give you the words if you want). Dont wait for something stupid to happen, trust me, you can loose yourself and you girl in the healing process.
well, yes, i'd agree that this has hurt our relationship. i have told her that. right now, things are a little better than last night, but we still have work to do
thanks. yeah, there are tons of possibilities. hopefully i can fix whatever is driving her to do it though.
Don't say "baby girl" though.
don't worry, i won't say "baby girl"
Jeez Never post on relationship stuff on internets!
I suggest you bail out before it deteriorates, preferably by dumping her then moonwalking out, throwing spoons at her.
Failing that if you HAVE to stay with the lassie, then let her feel the back of your hand, until she comes round to your way of thinking.
Seriously though squire, reading between the lines you both have drifted apart, and your relationship ain't going nowhere but splitsville.
yeah, it did feel kinda weird posting about this.
hopefully your last line won't turn out to be true. only time will tell
i wouldn't say that i'm not respecting her. but i can't say that she's respecting me either.
what's the saying...."You have to earn respect" (something like that)
How on earth is she disrespecting you? She's just growing into a more rounded social human being.
It seems to me you're having a hard time coping with the fact that the demure submissive girl you started dating so many years ago is turning into a fun-loving independent woman.
Grow up mate, people don't stay the same their entire lives, any one who tries to becomes very boring very fast. Relationships change, some get stronger, some get weaker and end, it's the way of the world.
Why don't you go out with her and have some fun. Open your mind a fraction, you might find some wonderful aspects of the human race you never saw before. Stop judging her and her decisions she has every right to do what she's doing. It's not hurting anyone (except you but in my opinion you're being massively over-sensitive) and she's enjoying herself. Why would you want to stop someone being truly happy?
It's your choice here, not hers. She's already made her choice.
Are you going to grow with her choice and respect her rights as a human being to make choices or are you going to try and impose your view of your life together on her. Because one of those choices will keep her (if that's what you really want) and one of those is going to push her away quick-smart.
What is it you really want?
well again, you aren't me, and clearly you don't know everything that's been going on. i just brought one thing that i was having trouble dealing with.
and clearly you don't know her either, just what i've told you, which isn't that much.
you may think that 'partying' and crap is good for someone, and maybe it is for some, but not everyone. especially when it's totally against who someone really is. maybe you don't understand that, and that's fine, but i get the feeling that you're just bashing me here.....maybe from another thread, i don't know, but i didn't come here for that.
but i do want her to be happy, i just don't think peer pressure is the answer.
and i don't want to control her either, maybe you've come to that conclusion based on what i've said, but it's not the case. there's no point in a relationship if i controlled her. might as well have a robot.
but things are ok with us now. still not perfect, but better.
putting yourself in bad situations is not a good idea. i've been through a lot already in my life, and i know how to stay away from those situations. i think she's setting herself up to hurt me and herself
being around drunk, crazy people and drugs, how is that good for someone? especially a young naive girl? that's asking for trouble.
i know how guys are.....i've been around them. like i said before, i've done some things in my life i'm not proud of
you're still talking about your girlfriend for whom you have respect, aren't you?
bozigle
yes i do have respect. and i try to watch out for her. but it's true that she hasn't been exposed to some things, and to me, that's good.
Mate, I'm not bashing you. Threads are separate, as far as I'm concerned you're just someone else asking for advice, I never carry stuff from one thread to another.
And yes, all I know is what you're telling us but you also asked for opinions so I'm complying with your request as best I can based on the information provided.
"Who someone is" is not a static thing, it changes, you either change with it or go. It sounds to me like you're not giving this "young naive girl" the respect she should have from you. Yes, there will be drinks and drugs and crazy people but do you honestly think she lacks the self esteem and the brains to avoid them? Do you honestly think she can't prevent herself from over-indulging in them? Because if you do then it's not her disrespecting you, it's the other way around.
You seem to be treating her like a child, wrapping her in cotton wool to protect her from the bad, bad world. Time to get real, she's going to do what she wants and there's nothing you can do to stop that, she's growing up and all you seem to want to do is end your development as a couple and as individuals right here and encase the whole thing in plastic to look at.
It doesn't work that way mate. She's out having fun, go have some of your own and get some stories to tell each other, after five years of routine you must be pretty close to out of things to say.
Remember, this is my opinion. It is based on what you have told me. I am not a mind reader nor do I know you or her. YOU asked for advice so YOU have to take it on board when people freely offer it to you at your own request. If you don't like it then discard it but don't accuse the person offering it of taking you to task.
I'm not trying to be rude or offensive here mate, I'm just giving you my blunt, honest opinion. I don't sugar coat things but I am trying to help you out.
i do appreciate you taking the time to read and respond. but it just doesn't seem like you are trying to HELP me.
but i know it's your opinion, and i respect that. (sorry for what i said earlier)
and it's not that she's out having a blast and i'm always sitting around doing nothing. i have fun as well. infact, i have tons of stories of me and my friends, but if i ever drink, it's not around her.
that's b/c i respect her wishes, and before she didn't want to be around that. that's another reason why i'm confused with her now.
i know no one stays exactly the same, but i believe 'who someone is' doesn't change all that much. yeah, you'll do different things, try new things, etc , but i don't think you change you're core, but i guess maybe that's just me.
no i don't want to treat her as a child, and i really don't. maybe it seems like it based on what i've said so far....i don't know. but i will admit that we both don't treat each other like we used to, and that's something that we need to work on.
and it hasn't been 5 years of routine. in fact, nothing is routine around me except the little stuff. like i'm actually going hunting for 3-4 days right after my last final exam (tomorrow night), so it looks like i'll be without her for a little bit. give us both a little time to think
Helping you is not the same as agreeing with what you say and reinforcing your chosen approach.
I disagree with the way you're handling this situation and I'm trying to help you see different points of view. If you were truly after help then you would be completely open to differing points of view and taking on some of the things that you might not have thought of. As I said, I'm not going to sugar coat things as that doesn't really help anybody. I offer my advice in a brutally honest fashion because I feel it's the best way to get some of my points through.
What you've said in your last post indicates to me that you really want to give this relationship your all but to do that you're going to have to alter your outlook and impressions of the world somewhat - you're really going to have to do some re-evaluating of your world-view and your impressions of your girlfriend. She's not doing anything that would be considered out of the ordinary for a normal girl of her age. Maybe she hasn't done it before but that doesn't preclude her for wanting to experience other aspects of life. It will make her a more rounded individual and probably a more interesting and exciting person to boot.
You're at the crossroads here mate, either you maintain your distinct and unwavering views of your girlfriend and the world around you or you let some of your walls crumble and take in parts of life that you've denied yourself for so long. It might seem scary but most people, in all their shapes and colours really are good at heart and it doesn't take a genius to spot the more nefarious members of the community and avoid them.
I think it's really time for you to take a leap into the unknown, yes it's a risk but without risks there are no real rewards.
I disagree with the way you're handling this situation and I'm trying to help you see different points of view. If you were truly after help then you would be completely open to differing points of view and taking on some of the things that you might not have thought of. As I said, I'm not going to sugar coat things as that doesn't really help anybody. I offer my advice in a brutally honest fashion because I feel it's the best way to get some of my points through.
What you've said in your last post indicates to me that you really want to give this relationship your all but to do that you're going to have to alter your outlook and impressions of the world somewhat - you're really going to have to do some re-evaluating of your world-view and your impressions of your girlfriend. She's not doing anything that would be considered out of the ordinary for a normal girl of her age. Maybe she hasn't done it before but that doesn't preclude her for wanting to experience other aspects of life. It will make her a more rounded individual and probably a more interesting and exciting person to boot.
You're at the crossroads here mate, either you maintain your distinct and unwavering views of your girlfriend and the world around you or you let some of your walls crumble and take in parts of life that you've denied yourself for so long. It might seem scary but most people, in all their shapes and colours really are good at heart and it doesn't take a genius to spot the more nefarious members of the community and avoid them.
I think it's really time for you to take a leap into the unknown, yes it's a risk but without risks there are no real rewards.
you sound like you need a very domestic, un-threatening/un-challenging, simple, quiet, good girl.
let her be who she is (which will change, regardless of how much anyone likes/doesn't like it)
if she is that girl that you need after all that then great, if not, let her go for both your sakes.
some fantastic replies in this thread, i won't reiterate.
edit: let me just say this - it's positively fantastic to have someone who loves you/accepts you for who you are and can still happily watch you grow (change). Relax a little.
let her be who she is (which will change, regardless of how much anyone likes/doesn't like it)
if she is that girl that you need after all that then great, if not, let her go for both your sakes.
some fantastic replies in this thread, i won't reiterate.
edit: let me just say this - it's positively fantastic to have someone who loves you/accepts you for who you are and can still happily watch you grow (change). Relax a little.
I think you need to get it clear in your mind what the goal of that work should be. (IMHO of course). You should not be trying to return things to the way they were or some idealized version of that, but instead to find a new situation and compromise that works for both of you in your current state of mind, which will evolve^W change over time.
B
Most interesting comment.
I would be curious to know why did she not want to be around you when you were drinking? For example, is someone in her family an alcoholic? Has she had some bad experiences associated with alcohol? Or did she just feel uncomfortable being around people who drink?
Well she won't become less-naïve through more sheltering.
It might not be necessarily 'good' for someone to be around drunk crazy people, however a life that is boiled down to only things that are good and wholesome doesn't work.
This brings to mind an extremely interesting article that I read the other day, on a slightly different level, but with many tie-ins to what is going on in this thread. It's long but a really good read.
She needs difficult situations, new experiences, some trouble and basic difficulties in her life to learn how to deal with the realities of life, and protecting her from these things will only be frustrating for both of you.
Although I do agree that people grow and change as they get older (especially in their earlier years), I do think that it's still possible for her to be finally "sewing her oats" so to speak. Perhaps the supressed wildcat in her is finally coming out to see what it's been missing.
I have to be honest, I'd be a little skeptical about it too... but that all boils down to the individual and your relationship dynamic. If you trust her and her changes aren't adversely affecting your relationship then let her do her thing.
From past experience, however, I've found that people who make drastic changes in their lives tend to make changes with everything, not just one thing - ie. if her social life changes it's inevitably going to affect you as you guys will likely spend less time together. If you're okay with that, then perfect. If not - try and talk to her. If she won't talk - perhaps it's time for a break (sorry to say it).
Good luck with it!
Wendy
I have to be honest, I'd be a little skeptical about it too... but that all boils down to the individual and your relationship dynamic. If you trust her and her changes aren't adversely affecting your relationship then let her do her thing.
From past experience, however, I've found that people who make drastic changes in their lives tend to make changes with everything, not just one thing - ie. if her social life changes it's inevitably going to affect you as you guys will likely spend less time together. If you're okay with that, then perfect. If not - try and talk to her. If she won't talk - perhaps it's time for a break (sorry to say it).
Good luck with it!
Wendy
i'm not saying agree with me, or my approach, but it doesn't seem like you're giving me another approach to take
maybe i'm not as open as some people, but of course i'm going to defend myself when you're trying to point out false things about me
well, yes, she means a lot to me. and i know i need to work on how i'm treating her, but i wouldn't say my 'world-view'. i don't agree with changing for someone else. and i don't think she would want me to change for her, or at least not like that. you may think she'd be more exciting and stuff, but one doesn't have to do the things that she's doing to be exciting. it's all in the eye of the beholder
it's not quite a crossroad yet, but i think it's coming up. like i said before, she hasn't been doing this stuff a lot, but we'll see next semester (i'm positive they will ask her to go.....and i have a feeling that she will)
but i take more risks than you think.....i'm just smart about it
well, it may seem that way, but i'm more complicated than that (depends on how you look at me i guess). i'm not sure what kind of girl is best for me, but clearly i think she is. but she is not someone who is outgoing and she doesn't make up her mind very much. i'm not sure if a girl that was more outgoing than me would be good for me or not.
i agree that it's nice to have someone who loves you for who you are. and some change is good, but not all. (clearly some people go down the wrong path)
and maybe i do need to relax. but the reason i brought this up in the first place is because this was bothering me, so i couldn't relax
you're right, i do need to figure how to work on it. i know i should comment on her more often (tell her she's beautiful....)
(and as far as evolving.....people do evolve, but only after God put us here)
i think i said this earlier, but her brother has had a few DUI's, and just got out of jail (only 10 days). but that really affected her, and that's the reason she doesn't like drinking and stuff.
i have drank in front of her before, but i didn't get wasted or anything. and it wasn't her favorite thing to see/do.
but as i said before, i'm different from other people. not only do i have a high tolerance, i don't get sick and throw-up, and no matter how much i drink i don't get hangovers the next day. (let's just say i have a strong immune system) so alcohol doesn't affect me like it does most people (yes i get drunk, but i'm still in control of what i do, and i remember what i do)
it's not that i want to shelter her, i just don't understand why she now what's to do things like that, when it doesn't fit her character or personality. i don't want to control her, i just don't understand her.
i still don't believe someone has to go through stuff like that. maybe they have to go through some stuff, but i wouldn't say that is one of them. maybe it's easier for me to say that, since i've already been through all of it.
i wouldn't say that she needs trouble. (i'm probably the trouble anyways). but you are talking about a girl who never gets into trouble. she doesn't admit when she's wrong, and is very stubborn. (i didn't want to list her bad attributes, but it seems i have to because of some of these replies)
i just don't think she has a 'wildcat' in her, or at least not in this sense. (i won't commit on the other sense).
yeah, drastic changes is what i'm afraid of. that's probably why this bothers me in the first place. i anticipate well, so of course, i look into the future to see where this is heading
I'm going to try and relate your situation to mine - if that happened to me, I'd be jealous. I'd be furious and feel like I had been betrayed. If she suddenly felt the need to have a ton of independence, I can totally understand how you might feel like this sudden change of heart is due to a dissatisfaction with you. I've been there - it doesn't feel very good.
Perhaps this whole ordeal has implanted uncertainty in you - an uncertainty that makes you question one of the things that you had previously assumed was constant and reliable - your girlfriend's loyalty to you. I struggled with this type of thing before and it's hard. The best thing to do is keep in mind that just because she has other interests, that doesn't mean that she's any less interested in you.
It's a scary prospect, but you also have to accept the fact that she might find something that she's more interested in (than she is in you) by pursuing these types of endeavours (ie. going clubbing, etc.)... but wouldn't you rather find out what she's really like now instead of 10 or 15 years down the road when you guys are married or have kids? I know you think you're not sheltering her and trying to encourage her naivity, but by not granting her the freedom to go out and experience different things you are, effectively, discouraging her growth as an individual. You can't hold on to her by keeping her in an emotional box... as ideal and as tempting as that sounds.
Relationships are tricky... it's hard to think clearly with emotions in the mix. But ultimately, at the end of the day, you need to know that the person you're with cares about you as much as they care about themselves and that you have similar interests - and it sounds like the latter is starting to suffer in your case.
thank you for that reply. i feel like not many people around here are actually trying to help me, but i get the feeling that you are. so thanks.
what you describe is close to what's going on, but not exactly (mainly b/c it hasn't gotten there yet, at least)
i guess the incertainty is there a little, but it's not freaking me out or anything (not yet anyway)
even if there is something that she's more interested in, i really really doubt it's clubbing. not that i'm so great, it's just not her. but i know, she could be changing (and in my mind, for the worse)
see, how we've lasted this long is that we have similar interests. we both grew up in the same county, went to the same highschool, and now the same college. we are both on the track team. (don't get mad gekko)
yes, we are both Christian, but she's a bigger Christian than me (if there is such a thing). i don't go to church near as much as she does. if she's at home, she goes every Sunday
Frequency of church attendance might not be the best measure of a Christian's faith though. But getting to the point.. what's at the center of your relationship? I'm asking as a brother who's got a tendency to get very attached in relationships. I can understand where you're coming from, at least in the example you mentioned (her going to clubs and doing things that seem out of character). I would certainly be concerned too. My girlfriend and I are working through some issues that are similar in idea.. she tends to be pretty independent, but she feels like she's being stubborn and wants to continue to work things out with me.
I'm learning too, so I don't have answers, but maybe we'll get somewhere if we think about the reasons for being in a romantic relationship and what we wish to accomplish. If Christ is at the center of your relationship, you're looking in the right direction. But we can talk more about this (if you want to).
I see no reason to get mad unless you accuse me of cheating again.
you're right, there isn't. but i never said i was on the track team. (which it doesnt matter since we're in the off season, and this challenge will be over before we are in season again)
you're right, how much you go to church isn't what makes you a christian or not.
but i'm not as good a christian as i could be. i could into more detail about that, but i dont think it's really necessary.
but Christ isn't the center of our relationship, and that's something that we also need to work on.
i think right now, what matters to her is being happy. and i guess, i'm trying to make her happy.
i think talking about this is good for me. and if you want me to go into more detail about why i haven't been going to church much lately, i can
Why don't you ask her?
Obviously she doesn't feel the same. For most women, there's a sea change somewhere between 17 and 22. It seems like much of what you're upset about are these changes. You're hanging on to what she was and not trying to adjust to who she is becoming.
I think your relationship is dying and you're searching for something or someone to blame. You'll eventually find there is no blame to be had. These things just are.
there is a song by Bon Jovi called "These Days" that really used to mean a lot to me, and i thought it kinda described me and my girl. but now, it's looking like it's just about me. here are the lyrics:
"I was walking around, just a face in the crowd
Trying to keep myself out of the rain
Saw a vagabond king wear a styrofoam crown
Wondered if I might end up the same
Theres a man out on the corner
Singing old songs about change
Everybody got their cross to bare, these days
She came looking for some shelter with a suitcase full of dreams
To a motel room on the boulevard
Guess shes trying to be james dean
Shes seen all the disciples and all the wanna bes
No one wants to be themselves these days
Still theres nothing to hold on to but these days
These days - the stars seem out of reach
These days - there aint a ladder on these streets
These days - are fast, love dont last in this graceless age
There aint nobody left but us these days
Jimmy shoes busted both his legs, trying to learn to fly
From a second story window, he just jumped and closed his eyes
His momma said he was crazy - he said momma Ive got to try
Dont you know that all my heroes died
And I guess Id rather die than fade away
These days - the stars seem out of reach
But these days - there aint a ladder on these streets
These days are fast, love dont lasts-in this graceless age
Even innocence has caught the morning train
And there aint nobody left but us these days
I know romes still burning
Though the times have changed
This world keepd turning round and round and round and round
These days
These days - the stars seem out of reach
But these days - there aint a ladder on these streets
These days are fast, love dont lasts-in this graceless age
Even innocence has caught the morning train
And there aint nobody left but us these days
These days - the stars seem out of reach
These days - there aint a ladder on these streets
These days - are fast, nothing lasts
There aint no time to waste
There aint nobody left to take the blame
There aint nobody left but us these days"
maybe that can explain some things a little better
"I was walking around, just a face in the crowd
Trying to keep myself out of the rain
Saw a vagabond king wear a styrofoam crown
Wondered if I might end up the same
Theres a man out on the corner
Singing old songs about change
Everybody got their cross to bare, these days
She came looking for some shelter with a suitcase full of dreams
To a motel room on the boulevard
Guess shes trying to be james dean
Shes seen all the disciples and all the wanna bes
No one wants to be themselves these days
Still theres nothing to hold on to but these days
These days - the stars seem out of reach
These days - there aint a ladder on these streets
These days - are fast, love dont last in this graceless age
There aint nobody left but us these days
Jimmy shoes busted both his legs, trying to learn to fly
From a second story window, he just jumped and closed his eyes
His momma said he was crazy - he said momma Ive got to try
Dont you know that all my heroes died
And I guess Id rather die than fade away
These days - the stars seem out of reach
But these days - there aint a ladder on these streets
These days are fast, love dont lasts-in this graceless age
Even innocence has caught the morning train
And there aint nobody left but us these days
I know romes still burning
Though the times have changed
This world keepd turning round and round and round and round
These days
These days - the stars seem out of reach
But these days - there aint a ladder on these streets
These days are fast, love dont lasts-in this graceless age
Even innocence has caught the morning train
And there aint nobody left but us these days
These days - the stars seem out of reach
These days - there aint a ladder on these streets
These days - are fast, nothing lasts
There aint no time to waste
There aint nobody left to take the blame
There aint nobody left but us these days"
maybe that can explain some things a little better