Remind me again? Why no copy/paste?

[Roller]

of course it would be simple to implement in any old fashion. But you don't want to make it complicated for the user. Gestures can be abused. I see people talking about triple tapping the screen, using three fingers etc. Those are not elegant solutions.

We have to consider the gestures that are already in place...

- pinch
- double tap to zoom
- hold to zoom in with magnifying glass
- hold on link to show URL
- swipe to delete
- a bunch of gestures they may be playing with but haven't yet been implemented, yet still need to be considered

....and then implement cut/paste in that context. you don't want people to trigger one gesture when they wanted to do something else. I have enough trouble as it is putting a cursor in place in keyboard mode when there is a conflict between moving the page and placing the cursor.

The fact is that there is no established convention for mapping all desktop based commands over to a touch only interface. What Apple decides to do would effectively set in stone how it works going forward. So it HAS to be right.

I agree that it's difficult to do elegantly, although some of the proposed solutions I've read about are very clever.

But I'd settle for cut-and-paste only working it editable text fields, which opens up some other options. Four new buttons in the virtual keyboard - select, cut, copy, and paste - would let you perform those functions. For example, to select text, you'd position the cursor as you do now, tap select, drag to highlight text, then tap copy or cut. To paste, you'd position the cursor and tap paste.

You'd probably have to add a third keyboard "page," since there's little or no room on the alpha or numeric pages.

Admittedly not a gestures-only solution, but it would work.

 

[The Phazer]

of course it would be simple to implement in any old fashion. But you don't want to make it complicated for the user. Gestures can be abused.

It would have to be simpler than the save image command. It should have just used those buttons - nice as saving images is, copy and paste is a LOT more important.

Phazer

 

[Project]

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The apple excuse probably is "cut and paste will decrease battery life" Isn't that their excuse for every missing feature?

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apple can't make money off of cut and paste. Things like appstore get all of apples energy. Very big brother, no?

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hold your finger on the screen for 3 seconds and a popup menu comes up allowing you to cut or select text.

But holding your finger on the screen for a second just invokes the magnifying glass. What if I just want the magnifying glass but not the pop up menu?

But I'd settle for cut-and-paste only working it editable text fields, which opens up some other options. Four new buttons in the virtual keyboard - select, cut, copy, and paste - would let you perform those functions. For example, to select text, you'd position the cursor as you do now, tap select, drag to highlight text, then tap copy or cut. To paste, you'd position the cursor and tap paste.

Yes, this is one of the few methods I too have thought of that seems reasonable. If you look at the keyboard there is a bar above the keys where the Next/Previous buttons are for tabbing through fields. They could put a text select mode button there that changed the keyboard to include the necessary features

- cut
- copy
- paste
- select all
- delete
- perhaps a clipboard for your previous 10 snippets

Highlighting the text could be done via making sure the cursor is at the start point, then press and hold to bring up the magnifying glass and lifting up your finger at the end point.

 

[Project]

It would have to be simpler than the save image command. It should have just used those buttons - nice as saving images is, copy and paste is a LOT more important.

Phazer

the save image thing follows a consistent pattern with the way you use gestures and is super simple.

Tap and hold on a link = shows URL
Tap and hold in a text field = magnifying glass
Tap and hold on an image = option to save / go to URL

So the way Apple implemented this makes perfect sense. That particular gesture can't be implemented for copy/paste though as there is no "target" to tap and hold on. Magnifying glass is there to choose a specific cursor point. It can't go hand in hand with highlighting text because the two contradict. But then the magnifying glass is the best metaphor for highlighting text (and also aids accuracy/usability), which is why a solution that is easy and makes sense is difficult.

 

[javadh]

look stuff like mms and copy/paste could have been easily added when the first iphone came out but it wasnt there they must have a reaon for it which we dont know of so it wont come for the 3g version. if it were the gps and 3g no problem they added these features because theres a reason to do so but for software stuff there was no reason for them to add copy paste

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

Since when has the iPhone been a laughing stock??

Everybody uses MMS?? I dont know anybody that does, I know some people probably do...but everybody??

You seriously think they're leaving it out to "prove an idiotic point"??

Wake up! *Slap*

Well clearly I was using a bit of extreme/generalized language to get my point across. The iphone, being one of the leaders of the phone industry, of course can't be a "laughing stock" but my point was merely I guess that that has become a laughing point. If you ever mention to a smartphone-carrying friend that your iphone doesn't use copy and paste they will laugh and say "mine does!" Same with mms. These have become basic features integrated into phones and it has become quite laughable that the "best" smartphone still doesn't have them.

ok ok clearly not everyone uses them. Heck I could give you some people who don't use text messaging at all! But a lot of ppl use it, and I don't know anyone who has used it, and has now STOPPED using it because it is outdated technology. people don't use email, because mms is simple, quick, and not everyone has email capable phones!

Maybe not "some idiotic point" but it sure as heck seems like they are saying "because I say so."

 

[pavvento]

The biggest updates Apple has made to the phone so far (except for triangulation) all have to do with money (IMHO).

Seriously, ability to use your own ringtones, OR buy them from the iTunes Store.
The ability to send text messages to more than one person at a time. With the revenue sharing model the bigger your iPhone plan was the more money Apple got.
The iTunes store on the go, more money for Apple.
And finally, the app store, 30% to Apple.

I completely understand that Apple is a business and they should be doing whatever they can to make more money, so I am in no way criticizing them for this, all I'm saying is that if it doesn't make Apple more money, don't expect it to come.

 

[jamesarm97]

I think one of the main reasons there isn't copy and paste on the iPhone is because of the logistics of it on the iPhone OS. Because the iPhone doesn't really have menus, there really isn't a very natural way to implement it.

I think the best interface for this would be the one that one of the SSH/Terminal clients on the iPhone used. You hold your finger on the screen and a pretty cool looking circle of commands pops up. You can just let go and do nothing, or drag your finger to one of the quadrants (lower left was CTRL-C). They had control key shortcuts, direction arrows and such. I really liked it alot.

 

[Scooterman1]

Think money.
Having to retype what you would copy and paste is more frustratiing..... so, you probably type a lot less.
If you could simply copy and paste, it would lengthen the email, and sms. On email, it would just load up the bandwidth use of the cell tower a little more. Not much for one phone, but a lot for many on the tower. Probably not much of a problem for 3G, but for edge????
And they don't make more money for the increased bandwidth.
But, if they could allow it on SMS, it would increase the number of messages by a little, and they are now going to charge extra for the text messaging.
But if they allowed it on SMS, but not email, it would just anger everyone.
Right now, Apple has been concentrating on how to make more money for themselves, and the Service providers.
Big Bells and Whistles do this, not little ones like Copy or Cut 'n Paste, or MMS.
But in months to come, or maybe the App Store may have something that allows mail or messaging to do this.

 

[Pandora01]

I have enough trouble as it is putting a cursor in place in keyboard mode when there is a conflict between moving the page and placing the cursor.

This is why I miss arrow keys even more than cut-and-paste. (Although I do miss cut-and-paste... a lot. )

 

[CrazEtooN]

I honestly think that the only reason cut/copy and paste is still missing is because they can't come up with a streamlined way to implement it. The iPhone is all but devoid of drop down menus for anything other than adding bookmarks and web clips, and that prevents a challenge for properly adding cut and paste. Not to mention the iPhone's lack of a clipboard.

I think we will see it one day, but it won't be until Apple feels they can add it in a way that fits the rest of the iPhone user experience.

 

[JonboyDC]

We have to consider the gestures that are already in place...

- pinch
- double tap to zoom
- hold to zoom in with magnifying glass
- hold on link to show URL
- swipe to delete
- a bunch of gestures they may be playing with but haven't yet been implemented, yet still need to be considered

....and then implement cut/paste in that context. you don't want people to trigger one gesture when they wanted to do something else. I have enough trouble as it is putting a cursor in place in keyboard mode when there is a conflict between moving the page and placing the cursor.

I agree -- it's much more difficult to do copy-and-paste right (that is, simple and elegant) than people think. I mean, there was fantastic copy and paste on the Newton -- but it used gestures that are already being used for other purposes on the iPhone. Personally, I'd rather wait for Apple to figure out the best way to do it than to have them come up with some kludgy solution.

(And all this talk is making me miss my Newton -- I used it from 1997-2001, and would have used it a lot longer if I hadn't slipped on those icy steps and smashed the screen to bits.)

 

[Archie-]

I honestly think that the only reason cut/copy and paste is still missing is because they can't come up with a streamlined way to implement it. The iPhone is all but devoid of drop down menus for anything other than adding bookmarks and web clips, and that prevents a challenge for properly adding cut and paste. Not to mention the iPhone's lack of a clipboard.

I think we will see it one day, but it won't be until Apple feels they can add it in a way that fits the rest of the iPhone user experience.

This underlines that while the iPhone interface is nice, its just an interface, not the ultimate interface. It has difficulty supporting complexity, like complex functionality, while other less attractive, less easier to use UI's have less difficulty incorporating multiple options and high density of information.

 

[xgman]

Someone "copy and paste" this thread to Steve Jobs. Maybe they are just too dumb to think of these great suggestions themselves.

 

[flyinmac]

Can we really think so highly of Apple at the same time that we consider them bumbling idiots?

The consensus seems to be that they haven't figured out how to do it yet...

Well, really??? They come up with all these gestures, implement an entirely new way of navigating on a phone, totally redesign everything.

And, then they get to cut and paste, and look at each other and say "duh, I don't know... I give up."

Come on, if they wanted to do it, they would have. They wouldn't be stuck for more than a year trying to figure out how. If they are the creative geniuses that everyone makes them out to be, they would not have gotten stuck there.

I mean what, they came up with say 20 ideas, and then said "that's all I can do, my brains shot... I can't think anymore... I'm done. Let's just release it as it is."

Is that the company that everyone is so hung up on?

Really???

 

[flyinmac]

Someone "copy and paste" this thread to Steve Jobs. Maybe they are just too dumb to think of these great suggestions themselves.

Excuse me while I switch to my Windows Mobile phone to send the note...

 

[Project]

Excuse me while I switch to my Windows Mobile phone to send the note...

the irony being that its taken Microsoft SIX whole versions of Windows Mobile to get copy and paste in across all SKUs

 

[flyinmac]

The funny thing, is that I can copy and paste on my cheapie Nokia flip phone. Not that I'd want to do anything other than make a phone call anyway. But, it's got copy and paste as an option in there. And, I have used it. Seems to work pretty easy.

As in, it's easy enough for me to figure it out quickly, while I still can't seem to figure out how to get my voice mail. So, don't leave a message, I won't call you back

 

[Niiro13]

they don't have such a simple feature that have been on all of their mac products for who knows how many years!

Umm, all computers have copy and paste...they also have keys for control, command, and alt...try putting that on the iPhone! Then people in landscape view would say it's too crowded. It's not that Apple can't, they just haven't figured a way to do is easy and simple without cluttering the UI.

I think one of the main reasons there isn't copy and paste on the iPhone is because of the logistics of it on the iPhone OS. Because the iPhone doesn't really have menus, there really isn't a very natural way to implement it.

Easy, do it in an ActionSheet like Save Image.

UIActionSheet *copypastmenu = [[UIActionSheet alloc] initWithTitle"Copy or paste?" delegate:self cancelButtonTitle"Cancel" destructiveButtonTitle"Copy" otherButtonTitles"Paste"];

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The apple excuse probably is "cut and paste will decrease battery life" Isn't that their excuse for every missing feature?

Their excuse is that they can't figure out a way to do it easy. Like they said with task manager: "it challenges the user to brush off their computer science skills"


apple can't make money off of cut and paste. Things like appstore get all of apples energy. Very big brother, no?

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hold your finger on the screen for 3 seconds and a popup menu comes up allowing you to cut or select text.

What if you just want the magnifying glass (to edit text)?

I think the best interface for this would be the one that one of the SSH/Terminal clients on the iPhone used. You hold your finger on the screen and a pretty cool looking circle of commands pops up. You can just let go and do nothing, or drag your finger to one of the quadrants (lower left was CTRL-C). They had control key shortcuts, direction arrows and such. I really liked it alot.

What if I want to edit the text in the textbox? I'm gonna get this huge circle of buttons, possibly blocking my magnifying glass? Besides, Apple is about simplicity...having buttons come up around it makes it less simple (it's simple to some, but compared to the rest of the UI?)



Anyway, the simplest I've come up with (and sent Apple feedback many times) is to tap and hold and tap and drag (hang on I'll explain it).

Basically, think of the magnifying glass. In a textfield, you can tap and hold and the magnifying glass is there. You can use it normally...

Or you can put down a second finger next to it. When that happens, you start selecting the text. Now you can select what you want by dragging (currently all this does is freeze the magnifying glass, the resigns it) both fingers. Let go of the fingers, ActionSheet pops up and you can copy.

Let go of just one, and it still keeps the text selected...nothing changes (in case your finger's blocking the text below).

To paste, do the same thing, except select paste (yes, this means you can paste over what you selected if you wanted to).

That's the easiest I can come up with.

 

[mavis]

COPY
1. Position the cursor at the start of the text to be copied
2. Two-finger tap the text input area, which pops up a box with two buttons: Copy and Paste
3. Tap Copy
4. The screen dims slightly, a magnifying bubble appears over the cursor, dragging the cursor to the right highlights the text to be copied
5. Lift up finger when finished (selected text is then copied to the clipboard)

PASTE
1. Position the cursor at the desired paste location
2. Two-finger tap the text input area, which pops up a box with two buttons: Copy and Paste
3. Tap Paste.



The only real problem with this method is that it can only function in text input boxes. For example, since it is impossible to position the cursor on a web page in Safari, it would be impossible to copy text from a web page. Same goes for received emails. To make it possible to copy in those situations would require sacrificing a little simplicity (using the method above) ... For example:



COPY (outside a text input field)
1. Two-finger tap the web page or email, which pops up a box with one button: Copy
2. Tap and hold Copy, doing so would cause the button to disappear, being replaced by the text magnifying bubble, which could then be dragged to the beginning of the text to be copied
3. Lift up finger when at the desired position
4. The screen dims slightly, the magnifying bubble remains over the cursor, dragging the cursor to the right highlights the text to be copied
5. Lift up finger when finished (selected text is then copied to the clipboard)


Copy/Paste? Problem solved.

 

[JoJoCal19]

If Apple wants to be a major player in the Enterprise market then they had better add the ability to cut/copy & paste or they will not be looked upon favorably by the Enterprise market.

 

[mciarlo]

Press screen, hold for magnifying glass.

Drag finger from start to end of copy region.

Double tap highlighted area

Window Item: [Copy] [Paste]

Select Copy

Go to paste area.

Press screen (or if input box, press inputbox)

Double tap area.

Window Item: [Copy] [Paste]

Select Paste

 

[Project]

If Apple wants to be a major player in the Enterprise market then they had better add the ability to cut/copy & paste or they will not be looked upon favorably by the Enterprise market.

Yes, because the ability to copy/paste is very high on the list of criteria when enterprises are deciding on what phones to support or deploy.


/sigh

 

[Project]

Press screen, hold for magnifying glass.

Drag finger from start to end of copy region.

Double tap highlighted area

Window Item: [Copy] [Paste]

Select Copy

Go to paste area.

Press screen (or if input box, press inputbox)

Double tap area.

Window Item: [Copy] [Paste]

Select Paste

You already failed at this point because dragging while in magnifying mode simply moves the magnifying glass and the cursor. You can't do both at the same time.

 

[gcmexico]

I agree with this!

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and just assume that apple wanted its users to shift away from doing those types of heavy editing type features on the phone. One of the reason why they dont offer you the ability to edit your word, excel PowerPoint or keynote is that the user experience is just not good enough to warrant implementing it.

Yes other more adept phones have these features from the beginning.

i can only speak for myself but I personally wouldn't care to edit a document on my phone, I'm on the go I'm in a rush ill delegate the work over the phone or email and just see the end results sent back to me. Editing things and copy pasting just seems to labor intensive for me to care to do.

Granted something like copy/paste is helpful, but I think what apple wanted to do is to give users a different experience on a mobile phone that could complement the PC and not completely replace it. They want you to use the multitouch.

When computers were just keyboards only copying something was a command line

when they introduced the mouse and the gui they had to get people to shift away from command lines into a far different experience, and i think this is the same with the iphone

*
I don't want to or need to do hard core editing on my iphone...someone anyone give me 10 solid good reasons for copy and paste..if we can't come up with 10..why should this issue even be addressed?