Rendering Audio wav vs aiff

Discussion in 'Digital Video' started by joevideo, Mar 11, 2011.

  1. joevideo macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2011
    #1
    I must be missing something here because it can't be this difficult.

    Please excuse me as I am new to final cut but very proficient in Sony Vegas.

    I have 8 wav files that are produced from a digital recorder. I cannot change the output format of these files. When I choose File - import - files and point to the wav files, they import into the project.

    Dragging them to the time line shows the red rendering line and beeps when you play back. If you render audio only, they play back fine.

    Now I'd like to add an audio effect. The moment I do this, the red rendering line appears again and I have to re-render audio

    I was informed by one of the people at the Apple store that Mac's dont really like wav files and they should be converted to aiff prior to importing. OK

    He told me how to do this using Itunes (drag the files into Itunes - highlight all of them and right click - convert to aiff)

    I figured my problems are solved

    Re-import the new aiff files into Final Cut Express and the exact same thing happens. (red line - have to re-render)

    Besides adding an audio effect, there are many times when I have to splice the audio file and move a section a bit to the right or left, to line up with the video, having to re-render each time would render this program useless.

    I'm sure I am doing something wrong.
    Any help is appreciated
     
  2. -DH macrumors 65816

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    #2
    It isn't enough just to convert to AIFF, the sampling rate and bit depth you choose for the conversion MUST match your Sequence settings in Final Cut. In almost all instances this will be AIFF at 48khz, 16 bit, but there is the chances you have Final Cut's Sequence set for 32khz, 12 bit.

    You can change the settings for this in iTunes or just use QuickTime Pro or SoundTrack Pro to do the conversion.

    -DH
     
  3. -DH macrumors 65816

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    #3
    Also note that anytime you have to render raw files (audio or video) in a Final Cut Sequence, it means that the media's specs don't match the Sequence settings. Rendering conforms the media to the Sequence settings ... but when you make an alteration of any kind, it must re-render so that everything will still match.

    -DH
     
  4. CaptainChunk macrumors 68020

    CaptainChunk

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    Phoenix, AZ
    #4
    Also, note that when you have multiple tracks of audio layered in a section (even when the sequence settings match), you may need to render regardless. FCP handles .WAV files just as well as it will .AIFF.
     
  5. wolfmeister macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    #5
    i dunno why mac users put up with it. You go to creative cow etc and see all these fc bods making endless feeble excuses for final cut, when the truth is the programme is riddled with bugs and problems and simply isnt fit for purpose beyond simple editing of defined cam footage.

    we dont live in that world anymore. Often i end up using motion because that at least can do simple things required when editing typical contemporary video projects including tutorials & presentations which always include things like "overlayed footage on top of the main video" which final cut simply cannot do properly etc

    final cut falls over when it encounters any tiny little cross-format issue.

    vegas on the other hand handles whatever you throw at it, it never fails, always gives realtime preview even with many layers and multiple fx, never has an audio problem, and has proper audio facilities built in which final cut doesn't

    i mean excuse me? a mac pro? with mega graphics card and a monster fast raid disk array and.. oh wait! It cant even draw a bloody audio waveform without almost dying of a heart attack.. you watch as this "pro" machine staggers along drawing the audio waveform at about the same speed as a 5 year old child with a crayon.. and once it has drawn the waveform (during whch you have enuff time to send out for pizza), it then immediately forgets the waveform display as soon as you scroll forwards or backwards, and it has to pause to redraw the waveform every damned time you forward or backup along the timeline!!!

    i mean come on guys lets get real for a moment!

    final cut is aweful and frankly in any other industry if a work tool performed like this the company'd have a class action lawsuit on their hands

    apple dont care about pro users who spend huge amounts on pro gear, they only care about their mass market of iphone, itunes and ipods.



    for example i had to create a simple montage video the other day for a client - on an 8-core mac pro, with a super powerful graphics card and a super-fast RAID disk

    the brief was simple. import the dialog track with a music backing already prepared, then arrange a series of still med-res mpg images to fade-in and fade out and crossfade as the dialog plays as a slideshow. Then at intervals between the cross-fading still-images I needed to add in some simple 5-10 second video clips filmed on an iphone which again would fade in, then cross fade, and finalLy fade out.

    could the mac do it? NO CHANCE!!!

    it stumbled and staggered and couldnt do it, EVEN WITH THE SETTINGS REDUCED TO DRAFT!!!

    it couldnt even cross fade some simple SD iphone clips without falling over

    yeah i guess thats why they call it a mac "pro"

    lol

    i know i laugh now but you look a fool when the client sees the computer cant even playback a simple video clip without having a heart siezure while their own iphone can play it back, lol

    and i'm sorry, but NO, i do not accept the creative-cow members apple-grovelling attitude that in this day and age users need to perform an endless series of tricks and fixes and renders and re-imports & all sorts of endless fiddling about etc just to play a stupid SD video file IN APPLE FORMAT FILMED ON ANOTHER APPLE DEVICE on an 8-core machine

    for example i have a pro video package that sees a bit of audio on the timeline, cannot play it back, and by it's own rules and protocol shows me a red line meaning "it needs to be rendered"

    the programme also includes a render facility with various options... that MUST be included to ..er.. render!

    but it cannot, it fails, always, but cannot tell you why it failed - brilliant pro quality s/w right there!

    now dont tell me apple havent seen this "inability to ever render non-playback audio" bug, the bloody programme aknowledges this eventuality by the fact it offers render optionS for "all", "selected", etc, and each can have an option to choose "AUDIO" - so apple know this can happen as a common occurence when editing video, it's included in the programme. BUT IT DOESN'T EVER WORK, NEVER EVER EVER NOT ONCE HAVE I SEEN THIS FEATURE WORK!

    Of course apple know this state of affairs exists.

    The truth is apple stick the finger up to pro users cos we're not the main customer demographic , we're a worthless high-spending but very tiny user-group compared to the masses buying ipods & iphones - that's their core business now and that's all they care about.


    why on earth dont the various magazines stop grovelling to apple and get these problems to the fore so apple get their finger out and drag their poxy final-cut programme kicking and screaming into the 21st century!

    oh well i am only typing this cos i must sit and wait like a numpty cos my 6 grand apple machine cant play an audio track

    the irony is, i know if i just boot up any old windows pc i have lying about i can do it instantly in vegas - even on an old p3, but i have to work with mov files. the one thing vegas cannot do sadly.
     
  6. KeithPratt macrumors 6502a

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    Mar 6, 2007
    #6
    Well somebody's got their knickers in a twist.
     
  7. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

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    Jul 17, 2002
    Location:
    USA
    #7
    It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.
     
  8. THX1139 macrumors 68000

    THX1139

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2006
    #8
    Yep, it's definitely the software's fault that your mighty machine can't handle simple audio/video tracks. I'm positive that you know what you are doing and have FC configured for the workflow? Right? But, oh wait... on second thought, I'm on a measly Macbook Pro (core duo) rendering out 15 layers of audio (yeah I know, I should be doing it in an audio program) along with multiple layers of composited footage with filters... and NOT having half the problems you seem to be having.

    My suggestion is for you to take a nap, wake up in a better mood, and then try again. Oh, and by the way... FCS is soon to be obsolete, so your issues are all going to take care of themselves. However, you'll probably find something wrong with FCX too. :rolleyes:
     
  9. -DH macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Location:
    Nashville Tennessee
    #9
    Funny ... I've used Vegas and found the interface to be so typically Windows (read: sucky) and in all the years I've used FCP, I haven't had any of the issues you seem to be having trouble with.

    Maybe if I spent more time with Vegas, I'd learn to like the interface better ... but why should I when I haven't had any problems supporting myself and my employees for the last 11 years with FCP?

    Oh, and if you think Apple doesn't care, take long close look at Sony.

    -DH
     
  10. martinX, Jun 19, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2011

    martinX macrumors 6502a

    martinX

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Location:
    Australia
    #10
    I've popped in to the Vegas forums on CC on more than one occasion, out of curiosity more than anything. All is not roses, lots of talk of jumping to Premiere after many many years of frustration with Sony.

    Having said that, the way FCP handles files that aren't "native" is abysmal. Even if FCP 6 and 7 still prefer certain codecs, the smart (helpful) thing that FCP could do would be to say "your clip doesn't match your sequence format, click CONVERT to match sequence format now". How hard could it have been? FCP knows what file is what format the second you drop it into the browser and really knows it when you drop it into the timeline. It displays a helpful red line to let you know, too.

    Just that addition would save so much time and negate the need for so many forum posts.
     
  11. arjen92 macrumors 65816

    arjen92

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    Below sea level
    #11
    Oh, so that's why most feature films are either cut with FCP or Avid.
     
  12. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #12
    And the whole, long-winded rant ends on this (emphasis mine). Classic.

    I think you have a big misconception about the pro's at CreativeCOW. They know more than most FCP's limitations because they are the ones that push the software to its limits and part of being a pro is getting results which means focusing on solutions instead of moaning incessantly about problems.


    Lethal
     
  13. martinX macrumors 6502a

    martinX

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    Australia
    #13
    I see you haven't visited the FCP X forum :p
     
  14. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    Jan 11, 2002
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    Los Angeles
    #14
    touche.

    To be fare though, the software isn't out yet so the only thing to do is complain. :)


    Lethal
     
  15. martinX macrumors 6502a

    martinX

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    Australia
    #15
    It's Touché Turtle!
    [​IMG]

    Some of the Cow discussions about FCP X really require a Chicken Little pic :D
     
  16. wolfmeister macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    #16
    ah, lol, yeah except oddly, for those who dont rely on crass sayings you tend to find the best craftsmen/women always mysteriously spend money to have the best tools they can afford

    strange that.
     
  17. wolfmeister macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    #17

    oh i see. Well that's odd because that's why i dumped windows. (although i do retain 11 machines and servers). I do admire my freinds and collegues who tell me they wont switch to mac saying: "yes but windows machines are so cutomisable and you can fiddle with it so much and that's 1/2 the fun!"
    (but of course they will sooon be back with their broken Windows machine for me to fix yet again *sigh*)

    it's odd how on the one hand mac users always claim superiority over windows cos macs "Just work", and macs "let you just create" and all that "The computer doesn't get in the way of creativity; that's how it should be!" etc, but when the Apple s/w is criticised then they leap to the tired old windows-user's defense; saying that the whole POINT is to spend ages finding fixes and work-arounds & cludges and solutions... that's the fun of it!


    none of that waffle gets around the FACT that the current (v7) fcp can't do much without rendering if one strays outside simple editing tasks, and it's audio handling is just laughable.


    You cannot possibly argue that a full-bore mac pro 8-core rig running fcp (current version) costing multi-thousands should NOT be able to do simple things that vegas can (even on an old amd xp machine from 7 years ago), without problems.

    You REALLY accept that a mac pro rig with all the expensive accessories (sold as a full HD edit rig) cannot even do a realtime cross-fade between 2 iphone SD clips? Come on, i mean there's fanboi-ism i know, but that's just being obtuse. Surely iMovie can do that? (never tried tbh)



    anyhoos let's see if final cut x can actually do simple things without endless prep & rendering.

    I tell you what tho, no pro-video gear dealer sales?!! wow, that's um... an odd policy to adopt to keep your specialist dealers onside!

    you cant even buy it in apple stores! doubley odd!

    i do think tho that if the hype/promo info is genuine then FINALLY they have dragged it kicking and screaming into the 21st century

    why they needed to do that if everyone thought it was fine & dandy is the real mystery tho.



    Anyway let's see. I have high hopes! Problem is i am reluctant to buy a d/load, I prefer disks. but you can't buy the damned thing from pro-video gear dealers or the mac store, and mac stores cannot give any date for retail (maybe never?) doh!

    anyway, fingers crossed and all that.
     
  18. wolfmeister macrumors newbie

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    Dec 10, 2008
    #18
    that's the other odd thing. No notification about fcpx from apple for registered users!!

    that is wierd!
     
  19. wolfmeister macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    #19
    well it's kinda ironic given the rather confrontational replies i got above over my criticism of fcp7, that now the "pros" are screaming and complaining all over the www about fcpx!

    i guess they are bad workmen blaming their tools eh?

    lol

    see how daft that sort of response is now? surely these "pros" can find workarounds for fcpx right?

    I must say, i dunno what in the world Apple were thinking making fcpx NOT able to import fcp7 projects. Sure with major updates (like when they did logic) you cant go back to run a project in the old version once you open a project in the new version and save it, but to NOT be able to import any of your old work is causing anger & amazement for users.

    They must be just complaining and blaming their tools i spose ;)


    also btw, apple just screwed Logic pro with the last update which i ignored (thankfully) due to being in the middle of a project. But other collegues are reporting the new version has broken one-shot sample playback from esx, and now none of the songs will play esx parts properly. they had to roll back

    apple can make mistakes.

    i still think this version is going to be great once the updates arrive. (fingers crossed)
     

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