Report: Apple Pays Less Than 30 Cents in Royalties to Arm Per Chip

[Pezimak]

When was ARM Holdings founded?

The company was founded in November 1990 as Advanced RISC Machines Ltd and structured as a joint venture between Acorn Computers, Apple, and VLSI Technology. Acorn provided 12 employees, VLSI provided tools, Apple provided a US$3 million investment (equivalent to $7 million in 2022).

[you are quoting a 1999 device]: Of course after the Newton flopped, ARM would sell to anybody who would be interested ... (INTEL including).

You are still wrong, ARM was never created to power the Newton (as you claimed), it was adapted to the Newton, ARM was in the BBC Micro computer first under their Acorn company founded in 1978. I doubt when they came up with the ARM idea and design they ever thought of Apple. They spent 11 years developing ARM before Apple helped them create the foundation.

 

[skc176]

You are still wrong, ARM was never created to power the Newton (as you claimed), it was adapted to the Newton, ARM was in the BBC Micro computer first under their Acorn company founded in 1978. I doubt when they came up with the ARM idea and design they ever thought of Apple. They spent 11 years developing ARM before Apple helped them create the foundation.

And so are you.

Acorn Computer Company was commisioned by the BBC back in the late 70s early 80s to make the BBC Micro which used a 6502 processor a CISC processor, the same one used in the Apple II. I owned a BBC Micro Model B and BBC Micro Advanced. It's where I learned to code in BASIC and Assembler.

They then created the Acorn Archimedes using their very own in house designed RISC processor which was then known as ARM - Acorn Risk Machine. That name stuck to this day.

Acorn Computers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[tobybrut]

LOL, and they take 30% from developers selling on the App store. This company is the pinnacle of GREED.

If you knew the history of app stores, 30% is historically a bargain. Before Apple introduced their 30% cut on their brand new App Store in 2008, most app stores were charging 70% or more. It was Apple’s App Store that brought the industry DOWN to 30% since all the other app stores had to compete with this new kid on the block. Now they’re charging small developers a 15% cut, something that‘s fairly recent. I don’t know if you were in the Apple ecosystem when the iPhone 3G came out along with the App Store, but the press raved about that 30% cut as ground breaking and forcing down the costs other stores hit their developers with. The 3G was my first iPhone and I remember those news stories well.

Now, after nothing had changed for 15 years, this same cut is somehow called greedy without even knowing what Apple’s costs of infrastructure are. Keep in mind this 15/30% cut not only funds the storage of millions of apps and the payment processing for those developers (this part is known to be 3% through European court records), but also pays the people who work there who maintain the server farms, conduct customer support, maintain the Store app and website (free marketing for developers), and check the apps for viruses, along with rules compliance. On top of that the cut subsidizes the millions of free apps that Apple still has to store and evaluate.

 

[Pezimak]

And so are you.

Acorn Computer Company was commisioned by the BBC back in the late 70s early 80s to make the BBC Micro which used a 6502 processor a CISC processor, the same one used in the Apple II. I owned a BBC Micro Model B and BBC Micro Advanced. It's where I learned to code in BASIC and Assembler.

They then created the Acorn Archimedes using their very own in house designed RISC processor which was then known as ARM - Acorn Risk Machine. That name stuck to this day.

Acorn Computers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ignoring wikepiedia… from ARMs own website which I’ve linked to already:

The pre-history of Arm goes back 45 years. In 1978, Acorn Computers was established by co-founders Chris Curry and Hermann Hauser. The start-up managed to land the rights to build and produce the BBC Micro, a UK government initiative that aimed to put a computer in every classroom in the UK. As part of this initiative, Professor Steve Furber and Sophie Wilson designed the very first Arm processor, the ARM1.

I used the BBC at school, a friend of mine had one, I’ve still got an Acorn Electron.

 

[skc176]

Ignoring wikepiedia… from ARMs own website which I’ve linked to already:

The pre-history of Arm goes back 45 years. In 1978, Acorn Computers was established by co-founders Chris Curry and Hermann Hauser. The start-up managed to land the rights to build and produce the BBC Micro, a UK government initiative that aimed to put a computer in every classroom in the UK. As part of this initiative, Professor Steve Furber and Sophie Wilson designed the very first Arm processor, the ARM1.

I used the BBC at school, a friend of mine had one, I’ve still got an Acorn Electron.

We are both right.

Wikipiedia was generally right (always take it with a pinch of salt!)

I referring to the point you said that the ARM was in BBC Micro. That's the bit was wrong

 

[skc176]

If you knew the history of app stores, 30% is historically a bargain. Before Apple introduced their 30% cut on their brand new App Store in 2008, most app stores were charging 70% or more. It was Apple’s App Store that brought the industry DOWN to 30% since all the other app stores had to compete with this new kid on the block. Now they’re charging small developers a 15% cut, something that‘s fairly recent. I don’t know if you were in the Apple ecosystem when the iPhone 3G came out along with the App Store, but the press raved about that 30% cut as ground breaking and forcing down the costs other stores hit their developers with. The 3G was my first iPhone and I remember those news stories well.

Now, after nothing had changed for 15 years, this same cut is somehow called greedy without even knowing what Apple’s costs of infrastructure are. Keep in mind this 15/30% cut not only funds the storage of millions of apps and the payment processing for those developers (this part is known to be 3% through European court records), but also pays the people who work there who maintain the server farms, conduct customer support, maintain the Store app and website (free marketing for developers), and check the apps for viruses, along with rules compliance. On top of that the cut subsidizes the millions of free apps that Apple still has to store and evaluate.

Analogous to have a popup in a Mall, using their electricity, payment systems, infrastructure etc and then only paying them 30% of sales. They think Apple is greedy for telling developers sell your software in our store and we'll just take a cut as we providing everything to sell your software except the software you develop. If the developer doesn't sell anything or the app is free, it costs the developer nothing. But Apple still host the app and promote it for free (as far as I'm aware)

 

[webkit]

Before Apple introduced their 30% cut on their brand new App Store in 2008, most app stores were charging 70% or more.

Which app stores were charging 70% or more back then?

 

[tobybrut]

Which app stores were charging 70% or more back then?

Microsoft's Windows Mobile for one. I was buying stuff for my crappy Windows CE phone before I switched to iPhone in 2008. The other existing app stores at the time, such as Palm and Nokia, also had equivalently high fees.

 

[webkit]

Microsoft's Windows Mobile for one. I was buying stuff for my crappy Windows CE phone before I switched to iPhone in 2008. The other existing app stores at the time, such as Palm and Nokia, also had equivalently high fees.

Where did you hear or read the fees to MS, Nokia, etc. were 70% or more? I’ve only read where it was the opposite i.e. companies like Nokia took around 30% and the app developer got around 70%.

 

[tobybrut]

Where did you hear or read the fees to MS, Nokia, etc. were 70% or more? I’ve only read where it was the opposite i.e. companies like Nokia took around 30% and the app developer got around 70%.

I read it at the time the Apple App Store came out back in 2008. There were dozens of stories from every single Apple website. They all raved about the 30% cut and how it severely undercut every other app store out there. At the time the typical App Store had roughly a 70% cut for the store owner with 30% for the developers. Apple set the new standard. Now they’re being pounded for being the one to bring developer costs down as being greedy, all because Epic Games wanted to get a 100% cut, despite them taking advantage of Apple’s infrastructure, advertising, customer support, and payment processing. If you want greedy, look no further than Epic Games. It was their propaganda that brings us to where we are today because it sells news clicks. I don’t know if most of today’s reporters were around back then, but the older ones should have done their research, looking through their archives, assuming their news service was around back then.

i don’t know if 30% today is gouging since no one has insight into the cost of Apple’s App Store, Google’s Playstore, Microsoft’s store, Samsung’s store, or anyone else’s store, all of whom charge essentially the same amounts, but the 30% cut was fine for years, but suddenly it isn’t.

I remember because my first iPhone was an iPhone 3G, which arrived at the same time as the App Store, replacing years worth of crappy Windows CE and Windows Mobile phones. As a developer back then (retired now), I was delighted to see developers get the majority of the cut… finally!

 

[Motorola68000]

Sorry I misread your first post, I read it as to mean you were claiming Apple created the ARM chip itself. Not the ARM company.

What a polite reply. How good and an example to us all, as thankfully its not life or death, and there's no one that doesn't misread or get things wrong, myself included.