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It'll be interesting to see how they perform. Current iMacs are very slow for desktop PCs, especially on the GPU front, and they often throttle due to poor cooling. When you look at the cooling required for the likes of the i9 and Zen 3, as well as the 3080 and 3090 it's obvious silicon with performance of anywhere near that level are not in Apple's sights.

Faster than Intel eh?

I hope you have a hat, as I'll be asking you to eat it. These are CPUs intended for telephones. The idea of putting them into desktop PCs is frankly absurd.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Besides you having no source for what is in "Apple's sights," you can't compare the cooling of a ****** Intel heat bomb with the TDP of a 5nm ARM SoC running an OS it was specifically designed for.

FYI the "telephone CPUs" are already outpacing commercial CPUs in computers. Maybe read up on that before you threaten to eat articles of clothing.
 


The first iMac powered by Apple Silicon is set to arrive in the first half of next year and will feature a desktop class "A14T" chip, according to Chinese-language newspaper The China Times.

imac_2020_mockup.jpg

Codenamed "Mt. Jade," Apple's first custom-made desktop processor will be twinned with its first self-developed GPU, codenamed "Lifuka," both of which are being produced using TSMC's 5-nanometer process, claims the report.
Today's story is based on the development timeline of Apple's new A14 processors, which recently debuted in the iPhone 12 series and the new fourth-generation iPad Air, and builds on a similar report that arrived in September from the same source. It also brings forward the previously claimed launch roadmap of the first Apple Silicon iMac, and reiterates previous claims that Apple's first Arm-based Mac will be a MacBook powered by an A14X processor, codenamed "Tonga," which is already in mass production and will launch by the end of 2020. That MacBook is said to revive the 12-inch form factor in a new super-lightweight design.

Apple announced at its WWDC developer conference in June that its Macs will transition from Intel x86-based CPUs to its self-designed Arm-based ‌‌Apple Silicon‌‌ processors over the next two years. Bloomberg has said that Apple is currently developing at least three Mac processors that are based on the 5-nanometer A14 chip.

Screen-Shot-8.jpg

Apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo has predicted that the first Mac models to adopt Arm-based chips will be a 13.3-inch MacBook Pro and a 24-inch iMac with a redesigned form factor, with Apple planning to launch the new models in the fourth quarter of 2020 or early in 2021 at the earliest. Prior to the launch of its Arm-based ‌‌iMac‌‌, Apple is expected to refresh the existing Intel ‌‌iMac‌‌.

Today's report also claims that Apple has already started working on an A15 series chip using TSMC's 5nm enhanced (N5P) process. The A15 will feature in next year's "iPhone 13," and like the A14 series, modified versions identified as A15X and A15T will provide the foundation for the second generation of Apple Silicon MacBooks and iMacs, with chip production beginning in the third quarter of 2021.

Apple has said it will debut the first Arm-based Mac by the end of the year, and a November event is rumored to take place on November 17.

Article Link: Report: Apple Silicon iMac Featuring Desktop Class 'A14T' Chip Coming First Half of 2021
And along with these new silicone chips will be a desktop or laptop where NOTHING is upgradable, what you purchase is what your stuck with!
 
That's very possible. I wonder what other Mac's they will announce at next months event? i can't see Apple holding another event just to announce 1 new Mac. I wonder if they will also update Intel based Mac's at the same time or just stick to their own ARM based Mac's and announce a couple of them.
Yes, I think there will be more than one.

Apple will want to show how Apple Silicon will allow more portable machines, such as a very light 12" MacBook, but will not want AS to be thought of as an inferior performance option, so will also have something performant that competes favourably with higher end Intel chips used in Macs. This might be a MacBook Pro, an iMac, or something new.
 
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It will be really interesting to see how Apple differentiates the different models with the different AS chips. I could imagine the A14, A14X and A14T for Mac likely having greater power draw than the iPad/iPhone versions.
I'd imagine this could be a likely scenario:
MacBook/MacBook Air 12/13' - A14, 8/16gb ram - £999
MacBook Pro 13/14' - A14X, 16/32gb ram - £1,499
MacBook Pro 16' - A14X/T (mobile equivalent) + Apple GPU, 16/32/64gb ram - £1,999+
iMac 24/30(ish)' - A14T + Apple GPU, 16/32/64+ - £1,799+
 
I think the only way that Apple was going to keep the Mac alive if they moved closer to IOS software. With most developers not wanting to write software on the Mac platform. My only hope is that they can get developers to write robust applications and not scaled down IOS apps. I have a iPad and a iPhone which does all that, Why do I need a third device that does the same thing. Apple needs vision like more work in Virtual Reality and Augmented Reality systems. Not a large iPad with a keyboard and a mouse.
 
I wonder how the release schedule for the A series chips will affect the updates of the Mac lineup. As the A series are used in the yearly refreshed iPhones and iPads they come out - surprise surprise - every year but will this mean that the Macs will be refreshed yearly or will they be more spaced out. Interesting to see and if its something Apple wants to promote
My assumption is that given A chips will come out on a regular annual schedule to coincide with iPhone/iPad, they will also do more regular annual updates with their laptops as well.

I think a big reason for the switch from Intel to ASi was the unreliability of Intel roadmap execution, and being held at the mercy of Intel's development delays. With everything being brought in-house, think it would be smart for Apple to update their ASi-based computers going forward at a more predictable, yearly tempo.
 
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I am still dreaming about a mac desktop (not the 6K one) with dedicated GPU and upgradable RAM. Maybe a muscle Mac mini.... All the MBP and iMacs are fine , but I want to use my own screen set up. I am saying this in the hope that the ARM CPU will get enough attention in other Mac environments as well. ..maybe
 
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What's all this fuss with gen1? The cpu's are already proven for years in ipads, so they are not gen1's, all the problems should come from arm macos being gen1, which will be upgradeable and gradually fixed.
Probably because they're the first desktop variant, and subsequent versions will probably be substantially faster as they get better at making desktop versions. Especially for the GPU. There's a much bigger difference between the GPU in an iPad and a desktop class GPU.
 
What's all this fuss with gen1? The cpu's are already proven for years in ipads, so they are not gen1's, all the problems should come from arm macos being gen1, which will be upgradeable and gradually fixed.
Most likely screen technology will be updated in these new iMacs. We don’t know how reliable those screens will be in the long run, and that’s just one unknown. Even the current iMac has its own problems (dust getting under the display), but other than that the overall package is great and RAM is still upgradeable. That’s why I bought the 2020 iMac, although the main reason was that I wanted to have a large display and couldn’t wait another 1-2 years. Being able to run Windows is also nice (something which won’t be possible with future ASi Macs).
 
I think a big reason for the switch from Intel to ASi was the unreliability of Intel roadmap execution, and being held at the mercy of Intel's development delays. With everything being brought in-house, think it would be smart for Apple to update their ASi-based computers going forward at a more predictable, yearly tempo.
That was part of it, but there’s huge value in having bespoke chips for your particular machines and customer use-cases. Technology has developed to a point where that is actually economical (I mean, Apple already ship custom SoCs in most of their devices - from iPhones to Apple Watch to AirPods). And Apple has grown to such an enormous size that they can afford to have a massive in-house semiconductor team with top talent, competitive with anyone in the industry, just working on chips for their products.
 
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Remember how long the last non-retina (2012) 13" MBP was kept in the lineup?* Largely because it was able to offer significant storage for an affordable price since it could still take 2.5" HDDs. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happens with at least one lower-end Intel Macbook.

* Until October 2016
Yes, it's a possibility (option B in my original post). But in that case the new 12-inch MacBook will be priced at a significant premium over the current MacBook Air.

For reference, the base price of the late 2011 MacBook Pro 13" (unibody, not retina) was 1199$.

When Apple introduced the late 2012 retina MacBook Pro 13" (while keeping the old unibody for sale), the base price was 1699$.

A 500$ difference.

So if the theory of keeping the Intel MacBook Air around is true, the new 12-inch MacBook base price might easily be 500$ higher than the current MacBook Air base price.

Which translates roughly into a 1599$ price for the new ultralight MacBook 12-inch powered by the A14X processor.
 
It's gonna suck when your new iPhone 13 with A15 is faster than the iMac you bought a few months back with A14X!

Now we have to worry whether our iPhone is faster than our desktop? I see it already...
 
I’m really excited to see the new AS desktop and laptop devices, even though I’ve been using my iPad Pro 12.9” (2018) as my daily driver for more than a year, and I absolutely love it. I’m actually looking forward to upgrading to the 2021 iPad Pro, more than replacing my now mothballed 2013 iMac 21.5” or the early 2013 retina MBP 15” I recently switched to using as a secondary device.

It’s funny thinking back to Apple promoting the A chips in their iPhones a couple of years ago, as being more powerful than desktop PC’s. It was probably then that they were testing the chips in their own laptops / desktops, because they were so powerful. Hopefully Apple doesn’t just take current form factors for MBP’s, Airs and iMacs and swaps in AS systems. I think the miniaturization afforded by these chips development as iPhones / iPads should allow for redesigned enclosures, while also allowing for bigger batteries, better cooling, better speakers, etc.
 
That was part of it, but there’s huge value in having bespoke chips for your particular machines and customer use-cases. Technology has developed to a point where that is actually economical (I mean, Apple already ship custom SoCs in most of their devices - from iPhones to Apple Watch to AirPods). And Apple has grown to such an enormous size that they can afford to have a massive in-house semiconductor team with top talent, competitive with anyone in the industry, just working on chips for their products.
Totally agree. I was just highlighting the no-longer-being-held-to-Intel-development-cycle as a reason why it would make sense that Apple could now release computers on a similarly predictable yearly cycle as iPhones.
 
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