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I'm just not feeling this whole business thing with China. Something is off, and I can't put my finger on it. What is it about China that these major American tech conglomerates are so invested in?
Over a billion potential customers with just a single localized version. A sixth of the world’s population. It’s almost three times the European market in terms of population size, and the latter needs over 20 different language versions, with an even greater number of different jurisdictions to comply with.
 
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They should have gone with Alibaba's LLMs models. They sure are impressive.
 
If the truths in China are different than the truths in the rest of the world, any LLM will struggle to adapt.
 
Over a billion potential customers with just a single localized version. A sixth of the world’s population. It’s almost three times the European market in terms of population size, and the latter needs over 20 different language versions, with an even greater number of different jurisdictions to comply with.
What's the market size like when you factor in people's ability to spend the kind of money required for an Apple phone in the first place and the fact that several homegrown corporations make competitive products which are apparently also pushed by their own government I wonder.
 
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What's the market size like when you factor in people's ability to spend the kind of money required for an Apple phone in the first place and the fact that several homegrown corporations make competitive products which are apparently also pushed by their own government I wonder.
Apple has roughly 15% market share in China, which is nothing to scoff at, certainly in absolute numbers. Around 15% of Apple’s global revenue is from China (same number by coincidence).

It’s also about the future potential. China is still at a 5% economic growth rate currently. And if Xi has a heart attack tomorrow, constraints could also change rather quickly.
 
I'm just not feeling this whole business thing with China... But there is more to this than the public realize.
Is there really? Something more that you're privy to besides the terrible rules of engagement of which we're all aware? Otherwise, it sounds like you're promoting a conspiracy theory. And it's ironic the day after GM takes a major hit on its China stake.
 
Due to the very unique situation in China, LLMs developed in house, with the super stringent regulations imposed by the regime will always be more competitive when compared to international offerings.
I'd also see China easily wanting to promote Chinese companies (and phones, by extension).
 
Xcode does not spellcheck my git commit messages any more. I don't think Apple having AI problems with china has anything to do with the world in general. Apple just has problems across the board. Nannyism suppresses innovation.
 
I'm just not feeling this whole business thing with China. Something is off, and I can't put my finger on it. What is it about China that these major American tech conglomerates are so invested in? I know cheap labor is one of those reasons. But there is more to this than the public realize.
Well, it could have something to do with China having around 18% of the world’s population. And probably more than 18% of the world’s tech savvy customers
 


Apple is struggling to work with Chinese tech company Baidu to bring Apple Intelligence to China next year, The Information reports.

apple-intelligence-black.jpeg

While it is now available in the United States and several other regions, Apple Intelligence is not available in China due to the country's restrictive security, privacy, and content obligations, which demands that any public AI technology obtains regulatory approval. This led Apple to partner directly with Baidu, a Chinese company, to deliver Apple Intelligence features in the country expediently.

Citing two individuals said to be familiar with the situation, the report claims that Apple and Baidu are racing to adapt the latter's most advanced large language model, Ernie 4.0, to work well for iPhone users both via the cloud and on-device. Apparently, the models have had difficulty understanding prompts and providing accurate responses to common scenarios.

While Baidu wants results to be driven by data used to train its model, Apple wants it to provide a more personalized answer based on a user's iPhone usage. Likewise, the two companies have clashed over the use of iPhone user data to train and improve the AI models. Baidu reportedly wants to save and analyze data from iPhone users, but this is forbidden under Apple's privacy commitments.

The issues are particularly notable since Apple hopes to use Apple Intelligence to rejuvenate iPhone sales in China, where revenue has declined for three consecutive years due to heightened competition from local smartphone brands such as Huawei that tout a wide array of AI features.

Unlike its collaboration with OpenAI, which reportedly comes at no cost to either company, Apple is actively paying Baidu a fee to use its AI models and has agreed to cover computing costs. Apple already uses Baidu for default search results in Safari and Siri.

Note: Due to the political or social nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Political News forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

Article Link: Report: Apple Struggling to Adapt Apple Intelligence for China
Let me correct that, “has partnered with the CCP who will steal everything you got, then produce the same thing unders a different state sponsored company” ahhh capitalism using your own greed against you.
 
I'm just not feeling this whole business thing with China. Something is off, and I can't put my finger on it. What is it about China that these major American tech conglomerates are so invested in? I know cheap labor is one of those reasons. But there is more to this than the public realize.
Large market size, China subsidizes manufacturing
their goal is to bring in manufacturing into China, steal the technology, once Chinese companies are able to compete with these companies then they make it difficult for western companies to make sell product in China.
all companies should tie up with local Chinese companies to manufacture product in China so all these companies are forced to transfer design and manufacturing technology with Chinese companies.
 
I'm just not feeling this whole business thing with China. Something is off, and I can't put my finger on it. What is it about China that these major American tech conglomerates are so invested in? I know cheap labor is one of those reasons. But there is more to this than the public realize.

Pretty straight forward really. Money. The answer is always money.

Aside from having a quarter of the world's population; China has 20% of the world's middle class. Which is their target market. And it shows in their sales figures since 17% of their revenue comes from china.

Ontop of that; they manufacture in china. While india makes about 25% of all iphones; 95% of all apple hardware products are still made in china. Plus it's almost certain that those products made outside of china (like the ones in india) still contain chinese components. If apple piss off china enough to get kicked out of china; apple will likely find themselves being a purely software company - at least for a few years until they're able to replicate their manufacturing in other countries. And then you're probably gonna have to pay 2-3k for an iphone
 
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I'm just not feeling this whole business thing with China. Something is off, and I can't put my finger on it. What is it about China that these major American tech conglomerates are so invested in? I know cheap labor is one of those reasons. But there is more to this than the public realize.
Early on, cheap labor was the draw but, over time, so much manufacturing and technology was developed there and the skills were built up. The raw materials are refined there. All of the components are manufactured there. There are suppliers for everything you need to build a product. That is a major center of the high tech industry.

Any place else you try to build a product is going to have to bring in components or the labor force will be less well trained. The assembled processes will not be in place. You won’t have the shipping infrastructure. If you persist, eventually you will be able to build products in other locations. Apple is now building some phones in India and Brazil, but it is likely that some components are still coming from China. It’s hard to fully separate your production from China and will take years, if at all.
 
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I'm just not feeling this whole business thing with China. Something is off, and I can't put my finger on it. What is it about China that these major American tech conglomerates are so invested in? I know cheap labor is one of those reasons. But there is more to this than the public realize.
Cheap labor sure, but massively educated workforce with high unemployment. Add those to the huge market that China has and it’s easy to see why Apple & other American companies go there.
 
It's surprising that China is not totally banning Apple Intelligence for national security reasons, the same as that the US is banning TikTok.
Baidu is playing China’s hand. If they want to collect data from iPhone users they sure as hell are already doing it with TikTok users.
 
This will be hard… China wants user’s data to be collected and analyzed, just like they want every iCloud data for Chinese customers to be stored in China (again, to be analyzed). At the end, Apple will acknowledge this Chinese request if they want to extend AI to Chinese customers.I’m wondering what about Google AI ? Is it working in China ?
 
It's surprising that China is not totally banning Apple Intelligence for national security reasons, the same as that the US is banning TikTok.
They are basically doing that.
Could it be that Apple Intelligence is just not that good?? This has been my experience.
It just started. Give it some time to improve.
Baidu is playing China’s hand. If they want to collect data from iPhone users they sure as hell are already doing it with TikTok users.
They are already doing that with every iCloud data for Chinese customers (stored in Chinese servers).
 
Apple struggling with communism.
That has always been the white elephant in the room with any company dealing with China. Companies like Apple thought as long as they provided decent or close to decent jobs to Chinese workers, the Chinese government would make sure the gears of industry were well greased. The relationship has become more complicated since Apple decided that China should be more than just their factory. I have to believe that at some point in the future, Apple will come to a decision to withdraw either partially or completely from China. Apple has accepted the role of subordinate in this relationship for a long time and it has been very lucrative for them. However, I can see Apple tiring of this suboptimal “partnership” to the degree that they decide to call it quits in China. Unless of course communism goes “away” over there.
 
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