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Apr 12, 2001
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Recent rumors have suggested that Goldman Sachs is aiming to end its financial partnership with Apple, and The Information today shared a new report on what went wrong and why the relationship between the two companies fell apart.

apple-card-1.jpg

Goldman Sachs is Apple's partner on the Apple Card, the Apple Savings account that is open to Apple Card users, and Apple Pay Later, Apple's buy now, pay later service that is being beta tested. Apple and Goldman Sachs have worked together since the Apple Card launched in 2019, but the venture is not making Goldman Sachs enough money, and Goldman Sachs' customer service issues with the Apple Savings account are impacting Apple's reputation.
Former employees at both companies who worked on the Apple Card said executives weren't prepared for how difficult it would be to combine Apple's West Coast tech approach with Goldman's New York-style banking culture. While Apple was more focused on the sleek technology and product pizazz that drew in customers and kept them happy, Goldman prioritized regulatory compliance and profitability.
Apple had a lot of demands that were atypical for credit cards and led to development problems ahead of when the Apple Card launched, including billing statements that lined up with calendar month, instant cash back rewards (did not launch), and the design of the physical card and customer agreements.

In one anecdote relayed by The Information, Goldman Sachs and Apple ran into a glaring issue. Apple CEO Tim Cook was testing the service and was not able to get approved for an Apple Card. The Goldman Sachs underwriting process rejected his application because he is a high-profile figure that is regularly impersonated, and flags on his credit bureau accounts caused issues.

Goldman Sachs was able to make a one-off exception, but internally, there were other issues that Goldman Sachs was dealing with that eventually led to an investigation by the U.S. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB). Goldman Sachs ended up with more disputed transactions than anticipated, and customers were receiving conflicting information or long wait times for dispute resolutions.

Shorty after the Apple Card launched, Goldman Sachs was also investigated for how credit limit increases were provided following reports of gender discrimination. Goldman Sachs was ultimately cleared of gender bias, but the situation created tension with Apple. The company also had issues with inaccurate statements, delayed payment postings, and problems with credit reports.

Goldman Sachs is now aiming to get away from consumer banking. It wanted to hand the Apple partnership over to American Express, but Apple Card has to run on the Mastercard network until at least 2026 according to a deal Apple and Goldman Sachs established, and American Express has its own payment network. Apple also has to approve any new partner, and sources that spoke to The Information have suggested that few companies would be willing to agree to Apple's terms.

Because Goldman Sachs was new to consumer banking and was eager to establish a deal with Apple, it is not collecting fees that it would typically get in a partnership for a credit card. Goldman Sachs does not get a portion of the fee that merchants pay to Apple to accept the Apple Card. Retailers pay a percentage of each transaction when taking a credit or debit card payment, and Goldman Sachs gets no funding from this.

Goldman Sachs is unable to collect annual fees, late fees, or fees for foreign transactions because the Apple Card does not charge these fees. Apple does pay for the Daily Cash that users earn, and Goldman Sachs is able to earn money from loans issued to cardholders who split Apple product purchases into installments, but it is not making enough for the deal to be appealing to a new partner.

Apple could decide to partner with a lesser-known bank to handle the regulatory functions while Apple takes over underwriting, fraud prevention, and customer service, but it is not yet clear if that will happen. The Information does not believe that Apple and Goldman Sachs will be able to maintain their relationship, and the report suggests that it could take around 18 months to dissolve the partnership.

More details about the relationship between Apple and Goldman Sachs can be found in The Information's full report.

Article Link: Report Delves Into Why Apple and Goldman Sachs Want to Break Up
 

jaw04005

macrumors 601
Aug 19, 2003
4,514
402
AR
Most of this just sounds like GS wasn't anticipating the volume of transactions involved - and maybe the expectations weren't correctly spelled out by Apple ahead of time.

Really? I read it more as Goldman Sachs wanted Apple Card to be just as anti-consumer as every other credit card offered and Apple said no.

Apple should have known when dealing with these clowns. How many of you have credit cards that encourage you to pay more than the minimum? Most of them hide everything—especially in their apps. Apple Card, while not perfect, is pretty straight forward.
 

JPack

macrumors G5
Mar 27, 2017
12,558
23,273
Apple Card serves as a loss leader to keep customers in the ecosystem and encourage buying Apple hardware. Great for Apple but there is no such benefit for card issuers.

The Card is analogous to selling Apple TV 4K for $129. It's basically a really cheap Mac in terms of hardware. Apple can sell it because of ongoing Apple TV+ service revenue. Banks can't do the same.

No annual fees, late fees, or fees for foreign transactions, plus high yield savings. Like it or not, banks gotta eat too.
 

MetalMoose

macrumors newbie
Nov 7, 2022
18
82
They probably weren't ready for something like Instant Cash Back. Most banks and CC companies give you the CB after a new statement. Very likely they rely on interest paid to give these perks and the shock is what GS wasn't ready for. The increased need for customer support and Cashback doesn't likely align with their process.
 

airwalk331

macrumors member
Mar 20, 2012
71
323
"Goldman prioritized regulatory compliance and profitability."

This is where Goldman Sachs went wrong. They do not care about the customers and their customer service is horrible. American Express please take over!
Couldn't agree more. GS and other similar companies will see. People want something easier to use and understand, less intimidating.

This is why Apple can break into so many new/different markets (music, phones, TV/movies, cars...) and succeed.
 

cannono

macrumors 6502a
Oct 21, 2014
966
1,097
I do wonder what Goldman's motivation for going ahead with the launch of the savings accounts was - if they were already looking to exit their partnership, that would seem to make it harder to do.
Very likely was already written in as an option in the deal from the beginning and Apple wanted it to happen. Or if signed later, it was likely in motion before Goldman started to withdraw from consumer banking.
 

mattopotamus

macrumors G5
Jun 12, 2012
14,666
5,879
They probably weren't ready for something like Instant Cash Back. Most banks and CC companies give you the CB after a new statement. Very likely they rely on interest paid to give these perks and the shock is what GS wasn't ready for. The increased need for customer support and Cashback doesn't likely align with their process.

But the article says Apple is responsible for the Daily Cash. I just think they are not making any money or collecting fees, so they are allocating a lot of resources to something that doesn't make them any money.
 

sw1tcher

macrumors 603
Jan 6, 2004
5,417
18,685
"Goldman prioritized regulatory compliance and profitability."

This is where Goldman Sachs went wrong. They do not care about the customers and their customer service is horrible. American Express please take over!
🤣 Yeah, I'm sure American Express is just itching to bring in a large number of sub-prime Apple Card holders.


- Goldman’s loss rate on credit card loans is the worst among big U.S. card issuers and “well above subprime lenders” at 2.93%, according to a Sept. 6 note from JPMorgan.
- More than a quarter of Goldman’s card loans have gone to customers with FICO scores below 660, according to company filings. That could expose the bank to higher losses if the economy experiences a downturn



Plus...

Goldman Sachs is now aiming to get away from consumer banking. It wanted to hand the Apple partnership over to American Express, but Apple Card has to run on the Mastercard network until at least 2026 according to a deal Apple and Goldman Sachs established, and American Express has its own payment network. Apple also has to approve any new partner, and sources that spoke to The Information have suggested that few companies would be willing to agree to Apple's terms.
 

jaw04005

macrumors 601
Aug 19, 2003
4,514
402
AR
Couldn't agree more. GS and other similar companies will see. People want something easier to use and understand, less intimidating.

And privacy!

That's why retailers, like Walmart, hate Apple Pay.

My 24 year old cousin, who just started his first, real job, just asked me what a 401k was if he should do it? No-one is teaching these kids about anything.

Apple should continue this trend, whether or not it makes the company money. It's good public service and they can afford it.
 

sw1tcher

macrumors 603
Jan 6, 2004
5,417
18,685
This is why Apple can break into so many new/different markets (music, phones, TV/movies, cars...) and succeed.
🤣

Apple TV+ is a success?

The Apple Car is a success? That thing's been in development for a decade now with no actual product in sight.

 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
7,802
6,716
Apple Card is my favorite. As long as they keep Mastercard or Visa (I have some sites that don’t take American Express) I’ll be fine if they move to someone else. As long as it doesn’t change how it works I don’t care who the back end is. Same with the savings account.
 

neuropsychguy

macrumors 68020
Sep 29, 2008
2,387
5,693
🤣

Apple TV+ is a success?

The Apple Car is a success? That thing's been in development for a decade now with no actual product in sight.

Apple TV+ is probably successful. It has some hit and awarded shows.

As for cars, Apple has CarPlay, which made significant improvements to how we interact with car entertainment and navigation.
 

ashdelacroix

macrumors regular
Jan 1, 2013
207
808
Apple becoming a finance and consumer money company. Interesting. If Apple cannot rely on established brands, it will make its own from scratch. What's the bet that, one day, we'll have Apple savings accounts, pensions and loans. And it will operate its own airline and car rental network (using Apple cars).
 

Sheepish-Lord

macrumors 68020
Oct 13, 2021
2,208
4,554
I would be curious what the median income of Apple Card users is. We’ve already seen the FICO scores but I would argue most high end clientele are using business cards or invite only cards. Highly doubt Tim Cook is daily driving an Apple Card with a $1500 credit limit ha.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
7,802
6,716
🤣

Apple TV+ is a success?

The Apple Car is a success? That thing's been in development for a decade now with no actual product in sight.

AppleTV is about as successful as anything else. Netflix just has Stranger Things these days IMO. I like more AppleTV shows than Netflix/Hulu/Disney plus shows combined.
 

Spaceboi Scaphandre

macrumors 68040
Jun 8, 2022
3,414
8,098


In one anecdote relayed by The Information, Goldman Sachs and Apple ran into a glaring issue. Apple CEO Tim Cook was testing the service and was not able to get approved for an Apple Card. The Goldman Sachs underwriting process rejected his application because he is a high-profile figure that is regularly impersonated, and flags on his credit bureau accounts caused issues.

Goldman Sachs was able to make a one-off exception, but internally, there were other issues that Goldman Sachs was dealing with that eventually led to an investigation by the U.S. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB). Goldman Sachs ended up with more disputed transactions than anticipated, and customers were receiving conflicting information or long wait times for dispute resolutions.

Speaking from experience this happened to me when I was getting my Apple Card. The bot kept rejecting me despite the fact I never missed any payments, paid early, and never even got close to going over my limit. It was only after I learned from customer support that the bot wouldn't accept any applications if I had any credit used on my credit card.

Then when I got the chance to apply again, I got rejected again, this time because Goldman Sachs had outdated credit bureau info. After contacting customer support that got fixed and only then did my application get approved and I got my Apple Card after five months of phone calls between Goldman Sachs, Apple, and TransUnion.

The entire application process during the cards' early years was absolutely dreadful. Goldman Sachs was not the right partner for this credit card. I just hope Amex is better...but knowing Amex it won't be.
 
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