The data is only a guide. No doctor will take those like a gospel.Apple make it possible to share your data with your doctor. Does every watch owner now need to partner with Apple to get access to the ‘real’ data?
The data is only a guide. No doctor will take those like a gospel.Apple make it possible to share your data with your doctor. Does every watch owner now need to partner with Apple to get access to the ‘real’ data?
I would suspect the raw data also changing. One by different sensors with different software. In order for a sensor to collect raw data, software needed. The researchers should have already know these variables existed. If not one has to wonder just how good a researcher they are. For example, researchers use blood pressure studies by collecting large amounts of data from many different blood pressure devices. In order to get the widest number of samples from the population. All those different blood pressure devices are calibrated differently. I have had, on many occasions in my doctors office, the nurses change the cups or machines and take another reading. Something Not right with this machine. Does the Apple Watch need to be perfectly accurate to get a good study, no. The trends and massive numbers will give the knowledgeable researchers an excellent picture of the data.Provide raw data
People can and do work with changes in data source definitions, resolutions, and formats all the time.In order for a study to account for the changes, it needs to know what was changed. It would need the raw data or the algorithms to compare, so they can account for those changes.
Since Apple doesn't provide that information, the data collected is largely useless.
Switching to a dedicated device would be the best thing in your use case. An Apple watch is trying to meet a lot of needs. And some of those may be in opposition to each other.I found the resting heart rate and heart rate variability data from the Apple Watch quite useless too. As an athlete, it's quite important that these measurements are taken every morning right after you wake up, or just before. However, I also found that Apple changed this behaviour multiple times. At one point, the measurements were taken while I was already under the shower, or even when I was already on my bicycle. Utterly useless, so I switched back to Elite HRV with a heart rate strap.
Apple needs to make those algorithm changes available to medical professionals so they can better understand the data. Otherwise the Watch is useless as a tool for measuring accurate data.I don’t even think they read the same news as I. 😳
It sucks that researchers having a hard time with Apple Watch but it’s not wrong for Apple to change their algorithm periodically if they think it’s a better one.
Yes.. I know... it's my day job and I get provided the raw data and the algorithms every time there is a change.People can and do work with changes in data source definitions, resolutions, and formats all the time.
The watch is a tool for consumer use. This is what Apple sells. And it’s pretty useful.Apple needs to make those algorithm changes available to medical professionals so they can better understand the data. Otherwise the Watch is useless as a tool for measuring accurate data.
It sounds like you have made sure your data is for useful in studies.Yes.. I know... it's my day job and I get provided the raw data and the algorithms every time there is a change.
It's my job to make sure reporting data is not only accurate, but consistent.
And if there is a huge change to an algorithm, I need to be able to let the consumers of that data know what changed, why it changed, and how to interpret the differences.
You're missing the point. "more accurate" compared to what?The watch is a tool for consumer use. This is what Apple sells. And it’s pretty useful.
And I presume “more accurate data” is why algorithm was changed. Otherwise why change it? 🤷🏻♂️
Compared to BEFORE. You think Apple should stop fine-tuning their algorithm? You don’t want your watch to be improved?You're missing the point. "more accurate" compared to what?
Apple LOVES to talk about medical studies that use the Watch as a tool.
The studies become useless when Apple changes how the tool measures data, but then doesn't provide that info to the researchers.
This sure is going to make it hard for Apple to get the watch certified as a medical device.
Researchers are rethinking plans to use the Apple Watch in studies after finding inconsistencies in the data gathered by the device (via The Verge).
![]()
Inconsistencies in the Apple Watch's heart rate variability data are reportedly caused by Apple tweaking the device's algorithms, meaning that data from the same time period can change without warning. Associate professor of biostatistics at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health and developer of the Beiwe data platform, J.P. Onnela, told The Verge:
Research fellows at Brigham and Women's Hospital exported the heart rate data from Apple Watches for the same period of time, but several months apart. The data should have been identical, but since it is filtered through an algorithm prior to export it was drastically different.
Apple changes its algorithms regularly and without warning, so exporting the same data at different times may use different algorithms. Beyond heart rate variability, researchers looking into sleep tracking have experienced similar problems with changes to algorithms.
This mostly precludes commercial devices from being used by researchers, resulting in the need for devices specifically designed to collect data for scientific studies. While this is adequate for some studies, it heavily constrains research into the medical value of commercially available products for users. Some researchers say that Apple should publicize the changes it makes to algorithms or make the Apple Watch's raw data available.
Article Link: Researchers Struggle to Use Apple Watch in Studies Due to Sudden Algorithm Changes
I think this is a great idea.Without knowing what Apple's rationale is for this (and what constraints they have to live with), I wonder if there could be some sort of "research mode" on Apple Watch where research apps could have access to "pure" data that isn't algorithmically distorted.
Again... no one is complaining about making a device more accurate.Compared to BEFORE. You think Apple should stop fine-tuning their algorithm? You don’t want your watch to be improved?
But they are doing ok in the Fun and Wellness categoriesThis sure is going to make it hard for Apple to get the watch certified as a medical device.
And again, Apple sells Apple Watch for consumers.Again... no one is complaining about making a device more accurate.
When it comes to analyzing data, especially in long term studies, you NEED consistent measurements with a solid baseline for how the data is collected.
If there is a change to the collection process, you need to know what changed to account for the discrepancies.
Without that piece, the data is useless.
You don’t know that. Please stop knee-jerking.These 3 studies that Apple bragged about are going to have inconsistent data measurements. That's just a fact given how Apple updates algorithms with system updates.
Unless Apple is providing the algorithm changes (or the raw data) to the researchers, they will have no way to accurately reconcile discrepancies in the data.
Apple is not caught off guard on this. They worked with WHO on several studies using the Watch as the tool for taking measurements.And again, Apple sells Apple Watch for consumers.
I’m sure Apple LOVES to boast about researchers using Apple Watch for medical researches, and in that sense they will find a way to work with them somehow. The popularity of using Apple Watch for researches may catch Apple off guard who knows. I’m just saying it’s good that Apple still try to improve their algorithm whenever they can since it’s one of the most important thing in the watch.
True they did. I didn’t see those complaining. If you have knowledge that I don’t know of please share a link.Apple is not caught off guard on this. They worked with WHO on several studies using the Watch as the tool for taking measurements.
I worked for 30 years doing computer simulation of petroleum reservoirs. Figuring out the history to match prior to prediction mode was half the work.Welcome to working with data. Getting and pre-processing data to improve quality uses upward of 70% of the project time. Data is constantly changing due to legal or technical issues or to make it better for users other than you. Any study based on data needs to be able to handle these changes.
Yeah, the VO2 max calculations are massively off too, and they’ve fiddled around with that algorithm regularly too.I found the resting heart rate and heart rate variability data from the Apple Watch quite useless too. As an athlete, it's quite important that these measurements are taken every morning right after you wake up, or just before. However, I also found that Apple changed this behaviour multiple times. At one point, the measurements were taken while I was already under the shower, or even when I was already on my bicycle. Utterly useless, so I switched back to Elite HRV with a heart rate strap.
I have read a lot of scientific research papers about the value of resting heart rate and hrv, and they all come to the same conclusion: hrv measurements taken at any time other than in the morning right after you wake up, have absolutely no scientific value whatsoever. I don’t know what other peoples needs you are referring too, but i doubt it’s valuable.Switching to a dedicated device would be the best thing in your use case. An Apple watch is trying to meet a lot of needs. And some of those may be in opposition to each other.
The FDA has not certified that feature to a high level so it falls under the fun and wellness category. One level above toy. Too many people are giving the watch unwarranted praise and attention and Apple their cash.Yeah, the VO2 max calculations are massively off too, and they’ve fiddled around with that algorithm regularly too.
Apple’s calculation is consistently less than two thirds of my actual, and they claim this has been validated, not that they provide any evidence.
I filed a feedback about it around a year ago with detailed information as to how I discovered it was so inaccurate - I’ve had no response.