Resolution scaling

Discussion in 'macOS Sierra (10.12)' started by snc, Jul 7, 2016.

  1. snc macrumors regular

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    #1
    Does sierra have improve resolution scaling for external monitors or is still the same sh*$% ?
     
  2. leman macrumors 604

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    #2
    Can you explain in more detail? I never really encountered any problems with external resolution scaling on any OS X so far.
     
  3. snc thread starter macrumors regular

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    #3
    To be honest there is no scaling only resolution changing which is really bad(you can change separately icon size or text but this is pain in the a*^ and you can't change everything).
     
  4. dsjr2006 macrumors regular

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    #4
    I'm kinda confused about what issues you're actually having. All retina displays use scaling, external display may depending on resolution. Is that what you're talking about?
     
  5. snc, Jul 7, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2016

    snc thread starter macrumors regular

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    #5
    I thought that I wrote explicitly :) There is no ui scaling option (for example 120% size) on external monitor on os x (only resolution change, hidpi options etc.) There is scaling on some 4k monitors but as far as I know this is also resolution changing.

    [​IMG]
    And my question is, if anything change in this aspect on os sierra?
     
  6. leman macrumors 604

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    #6
    Ah, you mean arbitrary DPI scaling? Well, that is never going to happen*. There is simply no way to do it in a sensible way. Apple has experimented with arbitrary scaling for quite some time (around Leopard/Snow Leopard) but then dropped the idea.

    *Correction: we are likely to see this in some more or less distant future when the computer resolutions are so high that the entire concept of the resolution becomes irrelevant in the first place. Instead of talking about pixels, we will talk about physical dimensions, which would open a way to true resolution independence.
     
  7. jeanlain macrumors 65816

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    #7
    With certain tools like switchResX (which doesn't work with SIP enabled), you can choose very high "HiDPI" resolutions that provide intermediate scaling factors that are ≤ 2X, without artifacts.
    A friend of mine has a non-retina 27" iMac but he found the UI elements too small, so he was running it a 1080p instead of 1440p. I was shocked when I saw that (I am horrified whenever I see a display that is not run at its native resolution), so I had him set the monitor at 4K "HiDPi" resolution, i.e., with the UI elements scaled @2X. So the frame buffer is a 4K image that is sent to the 1440p monitor. Effectively, the size of the UI elements is the same as at 1080p, but without the blurred pixels. The physical scaling of the UI is 1440/1080 = 1.3333X
    You can do arbitrary scaling factors that are < 2X this way, but I don't think Apple will make them available on every monitor. They do offer some options on MacBook Pros though.
    Note that this solution requires more GPU power.
     
  8. snc thread starter macrumors regular

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    #8
    I have this software and still had to return del 2515h with 117 ppi as I couldn't work on it because everything was so small (all other resolution different than native looks like crap)
    --- Post Merged, Jul 7, 2016 ---
    Oh I think that windows has much better resolution for this problem (ofcourse not perfect but still....)
     
  9. jeanlain macrumors 65816

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    #9
    It everything was too small, it means you didn't choose the appropriate resolution.
     
  10. snc thread starter macrumors regular

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    #10
    Changing resolution in lcd display is not an option. And everything was to small becasue os x has problem with scaling ui.
     
  11. mastercheif91 macrumors regular

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    #11
    SwitchResX should be able to accomplish what you're looking for, but it can be very finicky at times. Make sure to give a full read of the FAQ's http://www.madrau.com/support/support/faq.html and give it another shot. Also ensure your version is properly registered, when your trial expires the app still looks like it's fully functional and doesn't give very obvious signs about what will work and won't. Also, the developer is usually very helpful if you contact them directly.

    o_O

    I will give you that Windows allows the user more control over their scaling options, but my god when it fails it is a complete disaster. I'm honestly impressed Microsoft has been able to handle the edge cases as well as they have with the limitless scope that is Win32 applications.
     
  12. snc thread starter macrumors regular

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    #12
    It's so hard to understand that I don't want to change native resolution of lcd monitor but insted ui scaling?
     
  13. jeanlain, Jul 7, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2016

    jeanlain macrumors 65816

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    #13
    You can go above the monitor native resolution, so the image remains sharp.
    I you find Windows' solution acceptable, you should not have issues with this one, which is arguably much better in terms of rendering and artifacts.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 7, 2016 ---
    If you don't want solutions, don't start forum threads.

    EDIT: the 1080p "HiDPI" resolution is your native screen resolution in that case.
     
  14. snc, Jul 7, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2016

    snc thread starter macrumors regular

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    #14
    o_O I asked question about os sierra because I didn't install it and I'm curious. I don't need typical apple fun ******** that everything is ok just change monitor resoultion ;)
    --- Post Merged, Jul 7, 2016 ---
    No, you can't do 1080p hidpi resolution from 2560x1440 and all I need is os x ui scaling for example 120% but it doesn't exist and probably nothing changed in sierra.
     
  15. dsjr2006 macrumors regular

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    #15

    A change from the native resolution to display resolution while still using all available pixels is scaling. The resolution change is scaling otherwise there would be no option other than what the monitor supports.
     
  16. jeanlain, Jul 7, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2016

    jeanlain macrumors 65816

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    #16
    snc, I was referring to your screenshot. Your dell isn't a 1440p monitor.
    If you want 120% scaling on a 1440p monitor without bluring, use a custom 2400p resolution (=1440*2/1.2). But as I said, this requires more GPU power. Actually, if the target scaling is closer to 100% (but still above it), it requires increasingly high resolution. That's because OS X only scales the UI by integer factors (2X on OS X, but iOS does 3X as well I believe). There's good reason for that: non-integer factors produce artifacts. Microsoft are ok with these, Apple aren't.

    And no, this solution doesn't look like crap. As I said, I've set my friend's 1440p monitor to a 4K resolution and it looks very sharp. This difference with native resolution was unnoticeable.
     
  17. snc thread starter macrumors regular

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    #17
    And I refer to dell2515h that I had to return ;) Also you didn't want 1080p hdpi on 4k resolution monitor if its for example 30 inch as your ui element size will be like on 30 inch 1080p monitor so really big. In shortcut, changing resolution even to hdpi is not an option.
     
  18. leman macrumors 604

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    #18
    Except that Windows DPI scaling doesn't work with legacy applications or applications not going out of their way to properly support DPI scaling (which is notoriously difficult to do, in contrast to OS X). Thats why i was saying that DPI scaling just doesn't work, unless the OS was designed from the start with that in mind.
     
  19. snc thread starter macrumors regular

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    #19
    You can always turn off scaling if you have to use legacy app I think, I would be happy if I have such an option on os x
     
  20. jeanlain macrumors 65816

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    #20
    I think that using 4K HiDPI on your dell2515h would have looked good for a 25" monitor. But it's too late now.
    With a 4K monitor, things start to get complicated if you don't want the 2X scaling. Say you want 1.3333X, you would need to use set a 4740p resolution, which you GPU may not handle.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 7, 2016 ---
    This was an option at the time of OS X 10.4-10.6, accessible with "Quartz Debug", but it produced pixel cracks.
     
  21. snc thread starter macrumors regular

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    #21
    1.333 looks very limited, what if I need just 1.1 or 1.2 ? :)
     
  22. jeanlain macrumors 65816

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    #22
    See my previous post. The closer you are to 1X, the higher resolution you need to set up. This doesn't come for free, especially if the native resolution is already high.
     
  23. snc thread starter macrumors regular

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    #23
    Yeah and as you mention you have to upscale to resolution that is nor supported by gpu and all by using 3rd party software. Thank you apple for great ui scaling :D
     
  24. jeanlain macrumors 65816

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    #24
    Not a single OS does what you want (Windows has its own issues). It can be argued that macOS offers one the best solution in terms of image fidelity.
    Note also that macOS allows to use different monitors with different UI scaling factors (1X and 2X) flawlessly. You can move a window from one monitor to the next, and you won't notice any issue. I'm not sure how Windows does it, but I don't think it handles it well (though I haven't tested).
     
  25. snc thread starter macrumors regular

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    #25
    Yeah osx have so perfect scaling that I can't buy 34 inch monitor with 3440x1440 resolution as I'm almost sure I would have to return and the same for 4k monitors.
     

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