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Retina 5K iMac is going to lag like crazy
- Thread starter KuchiKopi
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It's a tough one for me. I'm a late 2013 mac pro owner with thunderbolt display. A 5k monitor is really attractive. I was considering picking up a new monitor. But the price of the iMac is very appealing.
The issue is I don't really like all-in-one that much because can't upgrade. However if you are gonna pay the same price for a monitor and if you go iMac get the computer too, it sounds good.
But I too am very skeptical about the video cards. I can only imagine the kind of horsepower it takes to run a 5k. The Mac Pro stays cool pretty much, but the fan does kick in from time to time from extended load on the cpu.
The main thing about the new iMac I'm loving is the lack of cables and wonderful screen. But might be sacrificing performance.as much as I love my mac pro, having a bunch of cables everywhere isn't that great. With that said, I had a screen burn problem with my 2010 iMac and told myself never will I buy an all-in-one again....but honestly if the thing works, the new iMac is priced competitively in my mind.
The issue is I don't really like all-in-one that much because can't upgrade. However if you are gonna pay the same price for a monitor and if you go iMac get the computer too, it sounds good.
But I too am very skeptical about the video cards. I can only imagine the kind of horsepower it takes to run a 5k. The Mac Pro stays cool pretty much, but the fan does kick in from time to time from extended load on the cpu.
The main thing about the new iMac I'm loving is the lack of cables and wonderful screen. But might be sacrificing performance.as much as I love my mac pro, having a bunch of cables everywhere isn't that great. With that said, I had a screen burn problem with my 2010 iMac and told myself never will I buy an all-in-one again....but honestly if the thing works, the new iMac is priced competitively in my mind.
I agree. When i saw the price tag during the keynote I had to pick my lower jaw off the floor!
That was also my reaction when I saw the price tag, and also when Apple said that a 4GHz i7 was in it.
This is the first time a K-series processor is used in an iMac. I presume that the unlocked multiplier won't be present though.
Its not that simple. Looking at the benches, NOTHING else on the market touches Maxwell's efficiency, GM204 based chips routinely are anywhere from 30-60% more efficient that Nvidia's 600/700 series or AMD's GCN 1.0/1.1.
Full tonga is not a particularly power efficient chip. I'm expecting Apple to get the better bins and the chip will be running slower 800 mhz vs. 918 in the 285 desktop so power consumption should be similar. Note that the R9 290X, 780m, 880m, 970m, 880m are ~ 100-120W chips. The 285 is a 190W chip. Thus the R9 m295X will likely be using significantly more power that previously, comparable to a full desktop 980 (~170W).
Note also that the 980m is significantly more powerful than the 285 (approaching desktop 780 levels). With only a minor increase in performance on full tonga because of reduced clock speeds, using a GM204 based GPU would have undoubtedly increase performance significantly.
firestrike graphics score
Desktop 285 ~ 7800
980m ~ 9600
980 ~ 12700
Estimated R9 m295X ~ 8300.
880m ~ 6000
780m ~ 5200
m290x ~ 5300
Nope it's not quite as fast (a little under 400MB/s read/write). Quite honestly I can't tell any speed difference anyway. Once you go above ~300MB/s, it's all fast!
Yes. It's a 27" display, roughly 217 PPI. Vastly superior to the current model but less dense than the iPad Air and only just over half as dense as the iPhone 6 Plus.
At desktop viewing distances pixels should be functionally invisible.
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Also, no reason to think there will be a lag.
It's double the resolution of the previous 27" display. Considering that the old models could power multiple 27" Thunderbolt displays without issue, there's no logical reason to believe that this can't handle the new resolution.
A 5k top of the line retina display, being powered by a... mid-range laptop GPU?
If you had watched the keynote, or checked the website, you would have known that:
http://www.apple.com/imac-with-retina/design/
I think that's more to do with the LCD technology (as in, forget the GPU - just how are these pixels going to "perform?") vs the actual GPU performance...
In Belgium, the base model is priced at 2629... (around $3400...) will be a 'no do' for a lot of end users willing to replace their all-in-one 2010-201x models
In Belgium, the base model is priced at 2629... (around $3400...) will be a 'no do' for a lot of end users willing to replace their all-in-one 2010-201x models
I live in Belgium and being a photographer the price is very good imo. Cant wait'
Well I hope, I love Apple but their track record with amd chips isnt the best (yeah some nvidia fails in there too) but the 2011 Macbook pros and iMacs got hit quite hard, but the iMac got a replacement program.. yeah we will see! Lets hope
I think the fear of the iMac being laggy "like crazy" is pretty much unfounded. We'll have reviews soon, but here's how I come to that conclusion:
Keep in mind that the 2012 rMBP has no problems running 1920x1200@2x (9.2 megapickles) via the integrated HD4000 graphics, which is ridiculously underpowered compared to the baseline R9 M290X.
And yes, the rMBP had some UI performance issues back in the day (especially with 10.7), but things have been improving massively over the years due to software optimizations (in other words: offloading more stuff to the GPU).
The 5K iMac surely won't be the machine to play modern games on at native resolution (you'd need two of the highest-end desktop GPUs available today for that), but for normal desktop use, I don't see why there should be any problem unless unoptimized software is at play. It will probably even handle some older games at full 5K resolution just fine. For newer 3D games, you'll have to drop down to 1440p or 1080p.
I'd still get the higher end GPU because I do some 3D stuff and GPUs become the bottleneck faster than CPUs do*.
Apart from that: Since the iMac is already in stores, it won't take long for the first reviews to appear.
Anyone who fears major performance issues should just wait a few days.
* Simply due to the fact that we're still seeing high year-over-year performance gains on GPUs while CPU performance is slowly stagnating in recent years.
Keep in mind that the 2012 rMBP has no problems running 1920x1200@2x (9.2 megapickles) via the integrated HD4000 graphics, which is ridiculously underpowered compared to the baseline R9 M290X.
And yes, the rMBP had some UI performance issues back in the day (especially with 10.7), but things have been improving massively over the years due to software optimizations (in other words: offloading more stuff to the GPU).
The 5K iMac surely won't be the machine to play modern games on at native resolution (you'd need two of the highest-end desktop GPUs available today for that), but for normal desktop use, I don't see why there should be any problem unless unoptimized software is at play. It will probably even handle some older games at full 5K resolution just fine. For newer 3D games, you'll have to drop down to 1440p or 1080p.
I'd still get the higher end GPU because I do some 3D stuff and GPUs become the bottleneck faster than CPUs do*.
Apart from that: Since the iMac is already in stores, it won't take long for the first reviews to appear.
Anyone who fears major performance issues should just wait a few days.
* Simply due to the fact that we're still seeing high year-over-year performance gains on GPUs while CPU performance is slowly stagnating in recent years.
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Just saw in Apple store the new imac 5k with 295x. I tested with the apple fellers around 30 min they even installed diablo 3, i don't play that game but they have late 2013 with 780M in stocks
So basic line is this : final cut pro, web surfing, mail, videos(4k), looks stunning and work seamless. (This is 295m AMD driving 2880p and not HD4000 driving 1800p) to make a comparison. So everything works /feels/see gorgeous/stunning/mind blowing. The brightens is at max level above the last generation (i have late 2013 27" imac at home). I tried D3 on 1440p all ultra on both ..in the 295x i have fixed 60 fps everywhere, on the 780M in town or whatever is called when the game begins i had 58-59 fps and in battles drop at 39-40 fps. They have a Gpu test app (i don't remember how its called) 780M scored 77 fps and the 295x scored 92 fps.
After 10 min lets say of playing with final cut pro 4k ed, or diablo 3 the heat is about the same like my imac. So this is a very good thing that it doesn't heat up from those pixels
So basic line is this : final cut pro, web surfing, mail, videos(4k), looks stunning and work seamless. (This is 295m AMD driving 2880p and not HD4000 driving 1800p) to make a comparison. So everything works /feels/see gorgeous/stunning/mind blowing. The brightens is at max level above the last generation (i have late 2013 27" imac at home). I tried D3 on 1440p all ultra on both ..in the 295x i have fixed 60 fps everywhere, on the 780M in town or whatever is called when the game begins i had 58-59 fps and in battles drop at 39-40 fps. They have a Gpu test app (i don't remember how its called) 780M scored 77 fps and the 295x scored 92 fps.
After 10 min lets say of playing with final cut pro 4k ed, or diablo 3 the heat is about the same like my imac. So this is a very good thing that it doesn't heat up from those pixels
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Thanks for the quick review!
BTW: It's a 780M, not a 980M. The 980M would have been a great choice for the new iMac.
BTW: It's a 780M, not a 980M.
The 980M would have been a great choice for the new iMac.
i want to point the little problem that was on the first gen on the 15" rMBP
the lag UI was thanks to its HD4000, on Mountain lion by default it was the HD4000 driving the 1800p display and give an UI lag. Since Iris and Iris Pro (iGPU still) no more. Here is the dGPU all the time by default no matter what, even in the bootcamp where some applications on my home imac recon the HD 5200 and not the 780M.
So you can't play games at 2880p, only at 1440p like before but the rest...my god is beautiful. Chrome i think wasn't updated for 2880p is the only think i notice, the rest is top notch
Until today i thought my last 27" 1440p imacs were already retina standing from a normal distance...but, i have to lie to tell you that you can't tell the difference
the lag UI was thanks to its HD4000, on Mountain lion by default it was the HD4000 driving the 1800p display and give an UI lag. Since Iris and Iris Pro (iGPU still) no more. Here is the dGPU all the time by default no matter what, even in the bootcamp where some applications on my home imac recon the HD 5200 and not the 780M.
So you can't play games at 2880p, only at 1440p like before but the rest...my god is beautiful. Chrome i think wasn't updated for 2880p is the only think i notice, the rest is top notch
Until today i thought my last 27" 1440p imacs were already retina standing from a normal distance...but, i have to lie to tell you that you can't tell the difference
@Serban
In which country did you see the Retina iMac in the Apple Store? I called the Apple Store in Zurich, Switzerland and they don't have any one.
In which country did you see the Retina iMac in the Apple Store? I called the Apple Store in Zurich, Switzerland and they don't have any one.
@Serban
In which country did you see the Retina iMac in the Apple Store? I called the Apple Store in Zurich, Switzerland and they don't have any one.
UK London
This isn´t a Rev. A machine, it´s using the exact same design as the previous mode. It has a new display panel inside. Apple are churning out a ton of these at launch, and so far the reviews are awesome.
Whats with all the negativity people? You hurt you bought the Mac Pro? Or have you invested heavily in a 4K Sharp display? Or is it simply out of reach money-wise? No matter what it is, stop the lame complaining, it´s annoying.
This is a $2500USD 5K IGZO display with a state of the art computer embedded into it. It´s running super fast without any lag. For what you are getting, I´d say it´s an amazing steal! And that´s coming from someone with a nMP/64GB/D700 with a 4K display currently. I´m getting this as well, in short it´s the best display/computer any photography could dream about.
So cut back on the unfounded complaining about lag,rev a,price,gpu.. And for once be happy for Apple that has managed to pull through and deliver something truly unique and innovative.
If you think that m290x is a mid-range laptop GPU, then I don't really know what to say...
Don't get me wrong, I am quite surprised why Apple didn't go with the Nvidia Maxwell... time will tell, I guess.
Trouble is, in anything that's a 3D game or even playing a full-frame 4-5K video in full screen, how the hell is a mobile GPU going to perform when even some higher-end desktop cards struggle at those resolutions?
I'm all for not going nuts and crying wolf, but I'm seriously curious to see some actual benchmarks; if anything, the old adage to avoid a 1.0 version of a new product still stands, wait for the first revision.